Kona aka Loa's body gaurd
Kona really is a tough little man - today Loa and Ahi where playing and Ahi went a little over-the-top Ahi style on Loa. She was pinning her down and Loa was just screaming and screaming...
so tough little Kona got protective (or possessive) of Loa and pretty much attacked Ahi! It was kinda hectic - Ahi didn't seem to care to much, but Kona was for real... he was jumping and biting at her neck, growling and biting... it was crazy.
Could point to some future problems for us...
Of course I got a video of the aftermath too - I'll post it sometime... I'm kinda sick of using YouTube right now tho.
Comments
Hmm. Kona is how old? Sounds like future pack dynamics??
Brad--
This is the same problem that I have been having with Kenji. Marian told me that this breed can be very protective of his or her owners, and unless taught early on as a puppy, they will be very aggressive to other dogs and humans because they see them as a potential threat. We were able to teach Kenji early on about those things, so we we go on walks or go to stores, he is very excited to see strangers and other dogs, and he is even surpisingly excited when new people come over. My problem with him is that Keria, being the little shiba devil she is, aggitates him and will run up to him with a toy or chew in her mouth so he chases her, as if it was a game, but after 3 or 4 times of Keria doing that, Kenji attacks Keira, and that is why we feel like we need to take them both to a behavior class or specialist because we know how this breed can be and when my husband and I decide to have a baby within the next 2 years he can't be aggressive like that to her or a future baby.
Other than him and Keria going at it like they are literally in a dog fight competiton, Kenji just recently started to get nasty when he has something hes not supposed to, he will run away with it in his mouth and hide under the table, and when we try to get it from his mouth he snaps at us. Even if its a chew and I walk by him, he thinks im going to take it away from him. I would highly recommend trying to do everything you can while hes young because now that he is starting to get in this aggressive stage im beginning to think we didnt do enough so now we will have to take him to someone to try and correct that.
Other than those two major things, when Kais trust you they will be loyal and loving to no end. Kenji follows me everywhere I go in the house and up until 7 months or so is when he started to be clingy and wanting to make sure he is included in everything.
Maybe Kona has bonded better with Loa, and since Loa is still a puppy maybe they have formed an alliance against the adults. LOL.
Thanx for the heads up Jamie - I think you are right, he seems a bit protective of Loa, who he spend most of his time with. Maybe we should start leaving him out w/o Loa so that he has time to play with the other pups more. Loa and him play non-stop if they are out together.
One thing I have noticed with Kona is he seems to have a better understanding of what to be fearful of than our other dogs. For example, our handheld Dyson - the other dogs are totally freaked out by it, on or off - but Kona is not at all. I can turn it on and hold it out and he will walk right up to it and bite it, while the other dogs run for the door.
Then the other day were outside with Kona and an off-leash dog came running up barking, Kona turned and ran the other direction smack into the door - our other dogs ran towards the dog...
You see what I mean? You would think the others would be weary of the barking, charging dogs and not the small vacuum - the only one that seems to have it right is our 10 week old puppy.
I don't know Brad, you seem to be applying some human logic to how a dogs mind should work. While dogs shouldn't be fearful of a vacuum I can understand why they would be. They are very odd looking objects (too a dog), they make a lot of noise, they move in an odd manner (however you control it) and they only come out to make noise and then get hidden away again. I think Kona may not be affraid of it because he is still so young that he explores new things in a more fearless manner. He could still become affraid of it someday. Nemo's vacuum behavior changes monthly.
However dogs running towards dogs make sense. They want to go greet him, see what he smells like, find out if they are going to be friends or throwdown right then and there. A new dog means butt sniffing time, and what is better than sniffing butts?
Kenji is the exact same way about the vacuum cleaner. When he was younger we made sure we got him aquanted with it and know that is it not harmful to him. When we got Keira (she was our first dog, and being a first time dog owner, espcially with a Shiba) we were more focused on making sure she wasnt chewing on our furniture and getting her used to other dogs and people rather than the vacuum. She isnt scared of the vacuum or the broom so much, she just tries to attack them when I am using them but Kenji just sits there and could care less.
I think Kais have their favorite leader, and it might also be the same for other animal sibblings. For example, Kenji always comes to me, always wants to sit on my lap, kisses me more, ect. and kind of just ignoes my husband. I also think the same goes for sibblings. He is in love with our 5 month kitten we adopted, plays with him and licks his face and always wants to be by him. So I think Kona may be starting to pick his favorites because I think Kenji could care less about Keira sometimes as long as he has his kitty.
Brandon - I think you are probably right, I do tend to apply logic to everything (I'm a programmer). I also may not have given the best examples to describe what I was trying to say. As puppies, Ahi, Hilo, and Loa love/loved new dogs - they run up to them. Even Maui will run up to a new dog - even though he hates them. Kona seems to want to run the other way, even if its a dog he knows (like Ahi). This could just be a lack of socialization, but I have a hard time thinking that is the case when he has 5 other dogs around him all the time - and he seems to be able to "read" dogs better than our other dogs. We really can't get him out to much till he has all of his shots, so it maybe a little early for me to be judging his social/fear aptitude anyway.
Kona is just pretty different from our other dogs, I guess I expected him to be more like a Shikoku but really he is different than all of them... That's not to say I'm surprised he is different (I mean after all he is a different breed all together), I guess I am just surprised (or maybe "interested in" is a better way to say it) how he is different from the others.
Jamie - I can totally see what you mean, Kona has mos def adopted Jen as his favorite person. He generally seems to ignore me, tho, most of the dogs seem to ignore me - I take that more as a respect thing than a dis (that makes me feel better about it anyway). Kona has certainly adopted Loa as his best buddy, tho Ahi is a very close second in line. Its good practice for Loa to have a puppy bugging her all the time since she will be a mommy one day.
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After watching Ahi and Kona play more today and last night, I think what I thought was Kona attacking Ahi was just EXTREMELY hectic play. He and her get pretty crazy, and I think he is more hectic with her because she allows it - Ahi is a bit masochistic.
I think Kona will start adapting more to his other sibblings as he gets older. I think I had read somewhere where they are extremly hard to trust a person, and probably the same way with other animals because their instinct as being a guard dog to their owner. Like I said, Kenji didnt start warming up to me for up until 7 months or so and sometimes he still has a hard time trusting us with, as we walk past him when he has a bone, he thinks we are going to take it from him.
Brad, do you plan on taking Kona to an obediant class? Also, we had a VERY hard time potty training him, and up until about a month or so ago is when he started holding it better and finally we are now where we can go to work, he doesnt pee in the cage, and he tells us by crying at the door when he has to go. I dont know if all males are like that, or if it was just my luck, but he peed non stop, every couple hours or so. They are very smart dogs, but it took him a while to get the potty training down but depending on your and Jens schedule you might not have that problem depending on how long you guys are gone for. My husband and I both work from 8 until 5-6 so when he had to go he had to go but now he can hold it for longer so hopefully you dont have that problem.
He also cried alot in his cage when we had to go to work, as if it was the worst thing in the world so you might get that alot, but I think all puppies do that pretty much.
Jamie and Brad-do either of your dogs exhibit head shy behavior? Probably not Kona yet because he's so young, but does Kenji? When ever anyone pets Kohji's head(including me) he puts it down or tries to avoid this type of attention, like he wants you to pet his shoulder or under his chin instead. A man brought a female Kai into my work once(also from Marian) and he said his dog was like this too.
Regarding Kenji not really caring for Keira that much, Kohji is like that too with Taj. He kind of ignores her, and he has never really played with her in all the years I've had them. They don't tug, wrestle or really like to chase each other outside. Well Taj likes to hide and jump out at Kohji or chase after him in the backyard(and he doesn't like it at all). And it's the weirdest thing, now that I have News, he plays with HIM sometimes. He will actually tug and body slam with him. Oh, and Kohji hates the vacuum cleaner, he would never bite it, he just gives me googly eyes and walks in the other room when I use it.
Jamie - Yes, we plan to take him to Obedience classes, sometime in May - we plan to take Loa too, but separately. May is the earliest there are classes here (very small town).
Oh, and OMG - the crying in the cage thing (sounds like a Shikoku post).... its so bad! He is SO LOUD and it will go on for HOURS! He is just really bad about it, we have gotten it to where he only freaks out in the crate if he wants something or if he is the only dog in the room... if there are others around, even not in a crate, he seems ok with being in the crate. Every morning at 5am he starts crying and has to pee - its just about the worse thing you can wake up too, ever (well, that was an exaggeration, but you get the vibe I'm sure).
As for the potty training - Kona is really good now, but he was really bad before. The trick was the bells on the door - he got it with very little training and will ring it if he needs to go out. He does pee a LOT tho - he rings the bell like every hour or so... Jen and I are both at home all the time, so Jen spends her day taking dogs out - especially since Loa pees all the time too. We currently don't have a fenced in yard - we meet with the fence guy this week sometime - anyway, that makes bathroom time very hard w/ 6 dogs.
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Kelly - Kona is not hand shy at all - but he is not thrilled about you touching his head a lot, i can tell this for sure. He doesn't like to have his collar put on, he kinda ducks or tries to avoid it... i don't think its the collar, its just that it requires us to touch his head a lot (it slides on).
Hilo doesn't like to be pet on his head - he mouths your hand if you do... so I think it's a dominant breed thing. Putting your hand on a dogs head is a very dominant, demeaning thing for a dog.
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The more I read about both of your Kai and Shiba the more I start to see some similarities to Shikoku and Shiba mixing. Shikoku are highly reactive and Shibas are drama queens with very intricate rules of engagement. While playing, or just existing, if a dog breaks those Shiba rules of engagement the dog gets a very harsh and over-the-top correction from the Shiba. Most of the time this correction works really well for the Shiba because the other dogs is like "WTF?" and generally goes away or stops what he/she was doing... but with a Shikoku it just makes them mad and they react to the "Shiba correction" by getting over-the-top themselves... but it usually is more of a bruit force way, apposed to the Shiba's mostly "showy" correction (a lot of noise and teeth flashing but really no bite).
With Kona and Ahi, I think what we experienced was what I will refer to as a "reactiveness loop" - Kona reacts with a reaction similar to a Shikoku, Ahi reacts to that reaction with her standard over-the-top Shikoku reaction, then Kona reacts to that, and then... well I think you get my point... It's time to separate them and give them both a nap.
Anyway, my point is, I think you are experiencing the same issues that lead me to to the conclusion of (but with Kai Ken instead of Shikoku Ken): Shiba and Shikoku don't mix well (really do Shiba mix well with any other breeds? Maybe Akita?). I LOVE Shibas - but they are high maintenance little fluffs, with BIG attitudes.
Brad--
Well said with the "high maintenance fluff balls with big attitudes". I think Kenji is over all my dog because he respects me more, and Keira doesnt really want anything to do with me unless I have food or want to play tug, other wise shes daddys girl, and as wierd as it sounds I think male dogs like females better and females like males better. That is just how it is at my house anyways. After I got Keira, I contacted Marian about getting another shiba, and she recommended that I get a opposite sex Kai because even male and female shibas dont get along the best because of the nature of both wanting to be the alpha dog in the house (but Brad your shibas sure do seem to love each other) so that is pretty much why I got him, plus as I was reading about the breed I noticed that they show carteristics as a lab as they are loveable dogs looking for his/her master to cater to, as apposed to the Shiba beebas and rule the house hold with their MINE MINE MINE attitude.
Kenji does seem to play with Keira, but he doesnt want to do it all of the time like she does, and it just agravates him to no end after the 3rd or 4th time she pesters him. I guess its just something that will hopefully blow over as they both get older.
Kenji likes to be petted, unless he has been scolded for eating something hes not suposed to or when he knows hes in trouble. He actually doesnt mind anyone petting him, he loves the attention.
Here is the clip I mentioned of Kona kicking Ahi's butt...
Love it!
LMAO Brandon! I feel ya!
Loa is HUGE!