Free download "Before You Get Your Puppy"

edited January 2010 in Behavior & Training
I've been reading this book and found it answered a lot of the questions about chew and potty training using positive training. I'm not an expert on Positive dog training, so I was hoping some of you would take a look and tell me what you think.

http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/before-you-get-your-puppy/2609821

Comments

  • edited January 2010
    Thanks for the link! Ian Dunbar it is what a consider a good source. The only thing that I think needs clarification is the fact that NOT all puppies will readily sit, lie down and roll over at 8 weeks upon request as indicated on page 45. The pup should be healthy enough to do those things but not all mentally will do this on request, particularly the Nihon breeds so don't expect too much too soon. There will be some things may need to be worked on a little more if there are problems, Ruff love by Susan Garrett is a good back up.

    Also note dogs that have been purchased at the pet store may take longer to house break and can have less tidy habits so patience is a must. Yes some can take up to 8 months if they are confused. His suggestions are good though. Finally for Shibas etc I would not put in doggie grass in the ex-pen as pictured in the book. Often it is difficult for dogs to learn to generalize and switch to potty outdoors...ie. if one gets them used to sand box or astro- turf it can be a headache to get them going elsewhere outside. Get them outside from the get go to save yourself the grief of retraining.

    Snf
  • edited January 2010
    Thanks for the advice! I also thought it might be confusing for the pup to be teaching it to go on doggie grass indoors when I'll be potty training it to go outside.

    The other question I had about this book is the fact that it tells me to use a crate to potty train from day one, but I've read that I should use treat rewards with the crate door open to get the pup comfortable being in the crate before I shut it inside.

    Also it says to tie all stuffed Kongs to the back of its crate. (When using the ex-pen as a long term home) Is that really correct? That means it can only chew in its crate, so it will start to love its crate.
    It also said put at least 6 stuffed Kongs in the ex-pen. Does that mean all 6 should be tied inside the crate? How will my puppy fit into its crate with so many Kongs in there?
  • edited November -1
    I own this book & have read it through several times, I like it a lot :) [ oh & I second everything Patrice has to say about it, but the book in general is good. ]


    I also really like "How to Raise a Puppy You Can Live With" ~
  • edited January 2010
    I use a crate from day one and alternate with out of crate time with pup in an ex-pen. Puppies are all over the place and rather than have accidents in the home I play with them inside the pen. I link two two pens together to allow for extra room. I also use expens outside to create a smaller potty area within a large yard. This keeps small pups out of trouble for the most part until I can get them used to a leash and they are a little bigger. This may not be an option or necessary for larger dogs or some Jindos we have had that are jumpers. But basically It's just a management plan that we use most of the time for young or untrained dogs. The other thing I do is tie pups to me when they are out of the ex-pen so I can monitor when I cook or clean.

    We don't tie kongs on to the crate I just leave them loose so the pup can nose around and roll them sort of as entertainment and get used to funny objects etc. Make sure you get "puppy kongs" to begin with since they are a little softer to start them on.

    We leave the crate door open for the pups to investigate, but it really it isn't until they are older that they go in on their own to sleep. Therefore, you will have to guide them in when you can't supervise etc. Expect complaints but they will get over it eventually, just don't cater to squawking or fitty fits.....they will have a pity party most likely but don't cave.

    Good Luck
    Snf
  • edited November -1
    Thanks! I think I have a pretty good plan for house training now.

    By the way, I wonder if an 8 week old Shikoku pup would be able to jump out of an ex-pen too easily.
  • edited November -1
    Tara,
    Koshi is just about 5 months now and she still sleeps in her x-pen & spends 3 to 4 hrs in it every morning. You'll be fine for a while!:)
  • edited November -1
    Oh I almost forgot there is the dvd by Susan Garrett...."Crate Games for motivation and control". It should help you out so the crate training gets off to a good start and does not become a stressor for either of you.

    Snf

    http://www.clickerdogs.com/crate_games.php
    http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=1363&ParentCat=501&string=crate%20games
  • edited November -1
    Tara,
    Just a little tip concerning the x-pen, try to let your pup burn off as much energy as possible and work on having him in a calm state prior to putting him in his pen.I started by leading Kosi into her pen with a treat instead of picking her up and "putting" her in her pen.:)
  • edited November -1
    Ok! Thanks for all the tips and book/DVD suggestions.
  • edited November -1
    So in order to burn off some energy, my pup should probably get lots of walks and play time. Concerning walks, I was wondering how long (min or hours) of walks a Shikoku pup should get. I saw on the Akita thread that Akita pups should't be walked for more than 30min until they are 6 months old for health reasons. I got the impression that Shikoku pups have more energy and endurance than an Akita pup.
  • edited November -1
    At 8 weeks old Ahi could climb out of her 3' xpen.
  • edited November -1
    Also, just a note, with Shika Inu (Kai, Shikoku, etc.), we have found, as puppies, using one of the 48"x30"x35" crates - the largest folding crates - works well in place of an x-pen. Its plenty big to give them space to play but also escape proof.

    http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753745&lmdn=Dog

    The 48"x30"x35" crates fit our CO in them, so they are plenty big for a Shika pup to play in.

    ----
  • edited November -1
    Tara, As far as the distance and length of your walks...your pup will let you know.That will fall into place all by itself ; )) But if plan on walking her everyday as an adult then I would walk her often if not everyday as a pup. You want her to get used to your life's schedule .

    Brad, that's amazing Ahi must be part squirrel . Koshi is very calm in her pen & hasn't even tried to escape even though I know she is capable. Oh, I hope I didn't just jinx myself
  • edited November -1
    Wow! Ahi could jump out of her ex-pen at 8 weeks! Well maybe I shouldn't make that ex-pen setup that I saw in the "Do it yourself" category. It would would be a waste of money if the pup could jump of it in the first week.
  • edited January 2010
    I love the book. I like Dunbar's sense of urgency about the importance of getting the dog out and socialized. Note the words he uses -- crucial, single biggest factor, etc. And this: environmental influences (socialization and training) exert a far greater impact on desired domestic behavior and temperament than genetic heredity.

    But I also like the total attempt he makes to fit your dog into your household, how to prevent problems from ever starting (crates, chew toys). The patch of grass in the puppy play pen is a concession to the fact that in America dog owners are often employed full-time and away for 9 hours a day -- the puppy has to eliminate somewhere. However, if at all possible, I would rather teach my own puppy not to ever eliminate in the house, on newspapers or anything else -- and if I had to leave him alone for 9 hours every day, I'd get a goldfish instead.

    Leaving a puppy in an expen unsupervised makes me nervous. Aside from the few that might climb out, if the puppy jumps up against it, it will move on a slick floor and there is some danger that he can knock it over and it would fall over on him, leaving him pinned under it for how many hours? It would be good to secure it somehow, or just use a nice large crate as Brad mentioned. Much more secure.

    How much to walk? You can probably tire out a very young puppy with an adequate walk, but as he gets older, you could walk 4 hours a day and not get the job done with a higher-drive dog. I'm still in favor of taking the puppy (even if by car) and letting him rip and run somewhere safe -- a half hour of THAT in the morning will do more for the poor puppy than 4 hours of walking. Ball or frisbee chasing or the like in a big backyard would do the same thing. As I've looked at the videos and pictures on this forum and seen examples of the dogs that are allowed loose in the woods, I've asked myself what in the world the big fuss was all about. Haru runs in the woods, the Kishu puppies run in the woods, there was that video of the Japanese family teaching their Kai to climb up branches with all of their Kai loose in the woods and hanging around for treats, with bells on the collars, Shikoku run and play in a park, trained Jindo walk along a wire, Shiba running on the beach ..... gee, they all look like absolutely normal dogs to me, with no special "Asian" traits that say to me you don't DARE take these dogs off leash. But you have to start from very early puppyhood. I hope that all new puppy owners keep uppermost in their minds just how much energy release puppies need, that they cannot get that release of energy on placid walks and if they still have energy to burn once back inside the house, they will be non-stop trouble. These are the dogs that won't settle down, that drop toys in your lap constantly, that pace and are in constant motion. Dogs that know they will get regularly-scheduled hard exercise twice a day are content to settle and wait for those times. So my own personal advice, TaraA, is to come up with some way, besides your walks which are very good for meeting and greeting people and dogs, of course, to get your puppy really and truly tired out once or twice a day....

    Good luck on your Shikoku --I've forgotten or never knew exactly where you were getting yours from?
  • edited November -1
    Just regarding the x-pen sliding on the floor; I resolved that by drilling holes in a 4'x4' sheet of plywood with linoleum press and stick tiles applied to it and the zip tied the x-pen to the flooring. While it is obviously no longer collapsible it is secure and will not tip.
  • edited January 2010
    I really like Dunbar's methods for puppy training too! I've read other books, "The other end of the leash"-Patricia McConnell, and "The culture clash"- Jean Donaldson, that I liked a lot too, but being a beginner dog trainer, I feel slightly bombarded with a lot of ideas, so I can't quite take them all in. I like how Dunbar focuses on key points and tells you exactly when and how to do them. I think the information from the other books I've read is starting to sink in a little better too now.

    I'll probably end up making a calendar for the puppy that tells me what I should do each day so nothing gets missed.

    @Marion: Oh, as for using an ex-pen, I was going to make one the way Jessica described, so it wouldn't move or flip. I've decided to use a large crate as Brad suggested to be on the safe side tho : )

    Thanks for the exercise advice. I know what you mean about a dog needing more than a walk to satisfy its energy requirements. A bit of mental stimulation and all out running around would be ideal. Hiking would be great to. I have a dog park right by my house where I could take my pup to run around. It's not fenced though, so I would be a little nervous about letting it off leash where it could run after a rabbit . . . or something and lose me, or get into a dog fight. If I put it on a long enough lead at the dog park we might still be able to play fetch, etc. I'll have to look into finding an isolated safe, or fenced safe location that I could take my dog.

    I'll be getting my pup from Katja this fall if all goes well!
  • edited November -1
    Tara, imprinting, early habituation is everything in puppyhood. An 8-wk old puppy put in a strange place he does not know, looks around and you are the only familiar thing to him. If you walk away with a pocketful or pouchful of tasty tidbits, he will follow you. Teach him to follow you. He follows for a few steps, stop and give him a treat. Walk a few more steps, stop and give him another treat. Just GO somewhere. What I don't like about most dog parks, unless they are really large and empty and you can walk the perimeter, is that you come in, let the dog off leash and just stand there, going nowhere. The puppy is off to get into his own mischief. It doesn't teach him to follow YOU.

    After a few days of this, I like to hide behind a tree when the puppy is sniffing something on the ground. He looks around, you step out from behind the tree and he comes in happily for a treat, happy that he "found" you. If you do this occasionally, it teaches him somewhat to keep an eye on you. Keep on walking....

    So, in your situation, I guess I'd alternate the dog park when there are dogs there and introduce him to playmates if you want, and other times take him somewhere entirely new to him, let him loose and just walk off. When he gets to be 3 or 4 months or so and it looks like he's getting a little independent, let him trail a leash or even a longer line. But he will never be comfortable off-leash if he doesn't get that experience, and it's easier and SAFER (because he can't run too far when he's tiny) to start his walks off that way early. You can walk him on leash of course around the neighborhood, on the sidewalk, beside roads and cars. I'd never advocate total off-leash outings everywhere.

    The trick to off-leash walking, to repeat, is to MOVE, don't just stand there. Think of hiking. You're going somewhere. Walk firmly away from him and let him follow you. Let him get a little ways away either behind or ahead, squat down and give him the happiest COME recall cue for a treat, and you've started your recall training. Then you can get him to sit in front of you when he gets to you and now you have a Sit and a Come trained already.... :-)

    For longer outings once I take the leash off, I call him to me for a treat, snap on the leash, walk a little ways, take it off, call him to me and pretend to look in his ear, let him go again, it's leash on, leash off. You don't want him to think that when he comes and you put the leash on him, playtime, fun time, is over. If he's leashed for a little bit, no big deal. He knows he'll get some freedom later. If he's off leash and gets called to you, no big deal. Always give him treats for coming to you for the first few months (or forever). Why not? Can't hurt. He will soon take responsibility for staying with you or somewhere near you, and be happy doing it.

    If you know there are dogs that fight, or rabbits running around, by all means leash him up! No sense in asking for trouble. Look around you at all times. If there's going to be something really irresistible to a puppy, leash him up. No sense in asking a baby to resist a passing skateboarder, or bike rider to chase.

    So, what I keep hearing is that everybody waits to do this when they think they have a recall on their dog, at 6 months or so. That's not when the imprinting starts -- I'd rather teach him to be off-leash from 8 to 12 or 16 weeks and THEN keep him on leash or a line if necessary through his adolescence, than the other way around. What they learn at 8 to 16 weeks they will retain virtually forever.... You want him to become nonchalant about this. Then, if he dashes out your front door by mistake, it's no big deal, you can nonchalantly call him back and he's not out for the "great run of freedom." Why? Because he's had some off-leash experience. He won't do zoomies around the agility ring for the sheer freedom and fun of running. I'm fairly convinced that 90% of dogs that do zoomies in the agility ring have never just been taken somewhere to let run flat out for the sheer fun of it, so they take their fun where they can get it -- you can just see that release of energy that they so desperately need. Dogs run, that's what they do. They can't run on leash.
  • edited November -1
    Excellent advise & well put Marion!!!!:))
  • edited November -1
    Thanks for the advice on off leash training Marion! It would be great if eventually take hikes and have fun off leash outings :)
  • edited November -1
    Another suggestion that was given to me was that the sort of treats that you use for off-leash training should only be used for off-leash training so that they remain "special."

    As for the x-pen, I have to say I'm a great fan of it, but we had ours hooked up the the door of our crate which helped stabilize it. The reason I was such a big fan was because we eventually want to transition Violet to having run of the house. While Violet could clamber out of a 3' x-pen (rather gracelessly) five days after we brought her home, she did learn rather quickly that she wasn't supposed to do it and has been very good about not doing it. The x-pen was a great way of slowly transitioning her from being crated to hopefully having run of the house one day. We would run several tests starting with 30 minutes to more extended time, of giving her more freedom when we weren't home. Eventually we transitioned her from being crated to having run of the x-pen (with access to her crate whenever she wanted) when we weren't home, and at 7 months we transitioned to letting her have run of the room (and took down the x-pen, but left the crate). She's now nearly ten months and has not damaged a single thing in the room in that entire period. Eventually, after she turns a year old, we will let her have run of the house once she's proven herself, but I do think that having the x pen played a crucial role in getting us to this point since it wasn't as abrupt a switch as from being crated to having run of the room. The other large factor in all of this was that we let her run around the house since we brought her home, as long as we were home and watched her like a hawk. She actually learned her boundaries pretty quickly and we only started doing test runs once it seemed that she really understood (and would obey) the rules of the house. The caveat being that Violet is not a huge chewer and may be unusually obedient for a shiba.
  • edited November -1
    Off leash training in a secure area is a good idea. In general if you can do off leash play early it is really helpful for other activities you may wish to do later. However, off leash play and walking really is risky at best in an urban area outside of a securely fenced lot. Even the best trained dogs break off leash and it isn't worth the risk to have dogs off leash in open populated areas no matter how good you think your dog is. I speak for my area, here in the east most places are not expansive enough in terms of acreage to exclude roads or highways. Let loose, even on the most expansive lot Invariably most dogs will find the highway....it seems to be a horrible Murphy's Law in regard to canines....i.e. given 350 acres most will go due north for the nearest road at some point : / There is the additional problem with farmers here becoming territorial with encroaching urban populations and loose dogs. Many may not hesitate to shoot first and ask questions later when they have "stray" animals cross over. Take a conservative approach to off leash.

    Snf

    Here is another decent resource to investigate too, Nicholas Dodman's book "The Well Adjusted dog"
  • edited November -1
    @Janie- I originally really wanted to use an x-pen as well, but if your Shiba could jump it after only 5 days, I don't know how effective it would be for a Shikoku. I think I'm going to have to stick with an extra large folding crate for now which I'll keep my pup in while I'm at work :) I do eventually want to transition the pup to having free run of the house while I'm at home. I'll see, depending on whether or not my pup's a chewer, if its a good idea to let it have the run of the house while I'm not home.

    @StaticNfuzz- Good advise! I'll probably work on off leash training in my yard, and or somewhere pretty isolated when the pup's still very young. After that I'll be very careful!
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