(scared?) peeing problem
Hi guys, hopefully someone can give me some guidance with this problem my dog and I are having. First, a little background.
The dog in question is a female akita, about 15 months old. I first got her from ASPCA when she was about 8 months I believe. I was told the previous owners had given her up because they were going through/had gotten divorced. At first I didn't think much of this, assuming financial constraints. From the get-go, the dog (Kuma..I know its more of a male name but shh lol) seemed pretty timid. Of course I chalked it up as normal considering she had been living in a stainless steel box for 2 weeks, and lost her former owners. After having this dog for a while, her behavior has led me to believe she was abused at some point in her life. If you raise your voice at all, and I mean at all, whether you are calling out to get someone's attention, just hit your head on a cabinet, etc, she flattens her ears out and tries to run to her crate. If you accidentally drop something, she does the same thing. if she is absorbed in something like sniffing an object and not paying attention to you, and you touch her at all, even if brushing past her on accident, she gets startled and runs.
Other than that quirk, her behavior is almost absolutely perfect. She was housetrained totally in a week, never gets on furniture, never barks, doesn't jump, etc, etc. She honestly has no bad behaviors that I can think of except for a peeing problem. Sometimes, when she is scared, she will pee out of fear. She will flatten her ears, rarely whimpers once or twice, and generally looks terrified. She'll squat down and pee anywhere from a few mL to releasing her entire bladder. I understand this is a form of submission, however, not only would I like a solution to the problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out what is setting it off. Since her behavior is perfect, I've never disciplined her, not even yelled at her. Usually telling her to do something once is more than enough. I'm a medical student right now, so I'm with her almost constantly since I'm always at home studying.
Sometimes her pee episodes will be precipitated by my walking around too quickly, which from her standpoint and background, I can understand. Sometimes they seem to happen for absolutely no reason whatsoever. She will come up to me looking like she's done something wrong (which is never the case), and just release. Once she starts peeing I usually sit down, stroke her chest and speak softly so she knows she's not in trouble, but that doesn't seem to be working. Also, whenever she looks nervous, I've tried simply ignoring her, which works sometimes, but other times just looking at her is enough to make her go.
She has always done this, and it never happened that often, so I just did the above and cleaned up. However, in the past week or so, she has been doing it every day, sometimes twice. There have been no changes to environment/schedule/diet, no strangers have been coming around, I've been taking her out the usual amount, and I haven't yelled at her or been stressed out....so I am really at a loss in regards to what to do. If anyone has any insight, I'd greatly appreciate it. Of course I want the peeing to stop, but if possible I'd like to know why it is happening and if maybe I can make her more comfortable? Thanks in advance! Here's a pic of her hanging out as well.
PS: She doesn't appear to be ill or in any apparent distress whatsoever. I know she doesn't have a UTI, as she has no problem fully voiding a normal amount w/o cessation when outside.
The dog in question is a female akita, about 15 months old. I first got her from ASPCA when she was about 8 months I believe. I was told the previous owners had given her up because they were going through/had gotten divorced. At first I didn't think much of this, assuming financial constraints. From the get-go, the dog (Kuma..I know its more of a male name but shh lol) seemed pretty timid. Of course I chalked it up as normal considering she had been living in a stainless steel box for 2 weeks, and lost her former owners. After having this dog for a while, her behavior has led me to believe she was abused at some point in her life. If you raise your voice at all, and I mean at all, whether you are calling out to get someone's attention, just hit your head on a cabinet, etc, she flattens her ears out and tries to run to her crate. If you accidentally drop something, she does the same thing. if she is absorbed in something like sniffing an object and not paying attention to you, and you touch her at all, even if brushing past her on accident, she gets startled and runs.
Other than that quirk, her behavior is almost absolutely perfect. She was housetrained totally in a week, never gets on furniture, never barks, doesn't jump, etc, etc. She honestly has no bad behaviors that I can think of except for a peeing problem. Sometimes, when she is scared, she will pee out of fear. She will flatten her ears, rarely whimpers once or twice, and generally looks terrified. She'll squat down and pee anywhere from a few mL to releasing her entire bladder. I understand this is a form of submission, however, not only would I like a solution to the problem, but I can't for the life of me figure out what is setting it off. Since her behavior is perfect, I've never disciplined her, not even yelled at her. Usually telling her to do something once is more than enough. I'm a medical student right now, so I'm with her almost constantly since I'm always at home studying.
Sometimes her pee episodes will be precipitated by my walking around too quickly, which from her standpoint and background, I can understand. Sometimes they seem to happen for absolutely no reason whatsoever. She will come up to me looking like she's done something wrong (which is never the case), and just release. Once she starts peeing I usually sit down, stroke her chest and speak softly so she knows she's not in trouble, but that doesn't seem to be working. Also, whenever she looks nervous, I've tried simply ignoring her, which works sometimes, but other times just looking at her is enough to make her go.
She has always done this, and it never happened that often, so I just did the above and cleaned up. However, in the past week or so, she has been doing it every day, sometimes twice. There have been no changes to environment/schedule/diet, no strangers have been coming around, I've been taking her out the usual amount, and I haven't yelled at her or been stressed out....so I am really at a loss in regards to what to do. If anyone has any insight, I'd greatly appreciate it. Of course I want the peeing to stop, but if possible I'd like to know why it is happening and if maybe I can make her more comfortable? Thanks in advance! Here's a pic of her hanging out as well.
PS: She doesn't appear to be ill or in any apparent distress whatsoever. I know she doesn't have a UTI, as she has no problem fully voiding a normal amount w/o cessation when outside.
Comments
You may want to talk to the ASPCA where you got her. Maybe they have a dog behaviorist on staff who might provide an explanation or provide guidance about her behavior.
My sister had a Border Collie who had been traumatized by "yelling people". (She got him from a local shelter.) If he heard what sounded like an "argument", Frisky would immediately leave the house as quickly as possible. This remained a behavior pattern well into his old age. Due to circumstances, my sister couldn't keep him, so I wound up with Frisky, who was a delightful character. I was always careful to not raise my voice around him, because I knew that he would have this flight response when presented w/ what sounded like an "argument".
After ruling out a medical condition, then I would take Sukoshi's advice and see a behaviorist. Don't assume that it's PTSD, or previous trauma or abuse, although yes indeed dog's can suffer from PTSD and it is a real condition. My dog has never lived in an abusive home, but he could not handle a loud home or people yelling. It would completely freak him out.
I wish I could add more, and I'm sorry that both of you are going through this but I must commend your patience and your willingness to stick this out and help Kuma. She is very lucky to have you.
BTW my dog's dad's name is Kuma. Love the name!
You seem to have a lot of bases covered, ruled out a lot of the usual suspects, so I am going to nominate that its time to find a Veterinary Behaviorist. ALthough there are other incontinence possibilities such as ectopic ureter (needs an u/s to diagnose or r/u, corrects w surgery), or a weak sphincter (corrects with medication pheylpropanalimine) which could make it harder for her to hold it, there is no denying the stress factor in her flatten and flight response. For whatever reason, she seems to be carrying an excessive stress load and sensitivity, and through dealing with my own anxious dog (who doesnt urinate and is not as jumpy as poor Kuma, but similarly cannot tolerate raised voices, an accidentally dropped pbkect or sudden motion and will flee or hide) I have found that as much as I did not want to put my dog on drugs, nothing can improve, learning cannot happen without addressing his base anxiety, and for us that means daily zoloft and situational clonidine. It means we stop overloading him with triggers, provide comforting structure and routine and allow him to have a safe place to be undisturbed if he needs to hide. With the above in place, he can stop operating in flight-fight mode and learn (One thing I learned is that fear is very very deeply seated and will never completely go away in many dogs, and in these situations all the cookies and counter conditioning in the world cannot overcome how serious they are about this fear. Expectations must be dialed waaaay down.)
The base fear must be relieved first, and a veterinary behaviorist can help with this so Kuma can relax and THEN you can counter condition and slowly teach her. Its very hard because you wish you just TELL them that the divorcing/arguing/fighting owners are in the past and you will never hurt her, but these things leave an indelible impression on dogs.
Good resources that do not replace a Veterinary Behaviorist, but support your work at home with her:
Stress in Dogs by Scholz and von Reinhardt
On Talking Terms with Dogs: Calming Signals by Turid Rugaas
HElp for your Fearful Dog by Nicole Wilde
Scaredy Dog by Ali Brown
(like you probably need any more reading/studying right now!- if you can only read ONE- make it Stress in Dogs- its small.)
Also, not all dogs that are super shy are necessarily so because of abuse. Usually it is a combination of factors. There also is an adjustment period for dogs to settle in and sometimes things can get worse before the get better after adoption. Sometimes it is two months or more before kinks can be worked out. I definitely would consult a behaviorist so you can work together in coming up with a good plan to help settle her in a bit more.
The list of resources above are a good as ref to supplement behaviorist help.
I am sure she can be brought around with some professional help.
Snf
Here are links to certified animal behaviorists. Although the addresses listed many not be in your area you may want to call and see if there is a clinic where there is rotation. Many professionals travel to other offices.
http://www.certifiedanimalbehaviorist.com/
http://www.animalbehavior.org/ABSAppliedBehavior/caab-directory
There is one thing I picked out of your description that I think you could address: "Once she starts peeing I usually sit down, stroke her chest and speak softly so she knows she's not in trouble, but that doesn't seem to be working." Unintentionally, I think you have reinforced the peeing behavior by giving her praise after she has peed. Since we already know that she's averse to raised voices, I would suggest that a correction (verbal or otherwise) which I would usually suggest in a situation like this is inappropriate. Instead of stroking and speaking softly to her, don't say a word and *IMMEDIATELY* take her outside to pee. If she eliminates further outside, praise her then. If she doesn't, then take her back inside, clean up, and pretend nothing happened.
Also, just to make sure, I assume you are using an enzymatic cleaner like Nature's Miracle to clean up her messes. If you aren't, that would also be a top priority. If you don't use an enzymatic cleaner, the scent of her pee will linger and continue to indicate to her that inside the house is a safe place to pee.
Given the severity of the behavior you describe, I don't think either of these things will be the cure, but they should certainly be a part of your response to her behavior moving forward. And I'll reiterate that hiring a certified behaviorist (not a trainer) after you have ruled out any medical causes is really the smartest course of action.
Best of luck. Please keep us updated on your progress. We all learn from each other's experiences, so please don't hesitate to share the things you try and how they work. And remember, keep up that saintly patience! :-)
Thanks for the replies.
She was spayed when I got her last June, so I don't think it is a side effect of that this far out. Also, they removed her ovaries and uterus when she was spayed. I've never dissected a dog, but form my experience with human females, if you're going to remove the uterus, you would almost certainly notice a malformed or misplaced ureter or bladder. I took her to the vet and asked about this after I had had her for about 2 months, and I was told there was nothing physically wrong w/ her, it was a behavioral issue, and she would probably grow out of it. Since her spaying surgery was about 8 months ago, I don't think a tumor is the culprit, especially when she is missing some organs down there and isn't much more than a year old.
I'm going to have to take her to the vet very soon anyway. I noticed a 2mm spot by her whiskers on one side about 3 days ago that is starting to enlarge - possibly ringworm. I've dealt with it before, but not on this particular dog. When I'm at the vet I'll go ahead and ask about the peeing again.
Also I'll look around for at least the one recommended book and see if I can track down a behaviorist in the area. She doesn't seem to be scared of me normally, so I still don't understand why she randomly gets terrified. She follows me around everywhere constantly. If I move a few feet, so does she.
I am using an enzymatic cleaner, and I also clean my carpet with a steamer every few months w/ the enzymatic cleaner added to normal cleanign solution.
Sorry this is kind of choppy...kind of rushed at the moment.
When I leave her home alone she doesn't seem to have any problems. When I start gathering my things to leave, she usually realizes I'm about to and just goes into her crate on her own. I've left her out a few times when I went away for a few hours, and while she behaved perfectly fine, when I came home she thought she was in trouble for being out, and the peeing happened. I have taken her to my parent's house for about a week on two separate occasions. My mom says when I'm not around for 12+hrs, she gets sort of restless and doesn't listen to her. Kuma never really listens to anyone but me regardless, so I don't know how much of that has to do with my being away.
I think she is reasonably self-confident. She knows giving me her paw, lay down, high five, speak, etc, and seems very sure of herself around strangers, but not so much around other dogs (lots of "talking" but no barking, and backing up).
I don't think she thinks its ok to pee in the house, bc she always looks terrified when she does it. I've tried all manner of no/bad dog/saying her name and so on, and nothing ever gets her to stop. I will also try to start taking her out the second she starts next time it happens. She always tells me whenever she wants to go out, and goes the normal amount with no problems holding it all through the night. I take her out whenever she asks, which is anywhere from 2-5x a day. I've always allowed her free access to water, and she doesn't seem to be drinking a massive amount. Urine appears visually normal with no odd smells.
--As you have discovered, this rarely works on shy sensitive dogs since their mental emotional state over rides anything verbal. Just erase "no" and "bad dog" from your repertoire and replace with positive affirmations for your dog when they do things right and are just relaxing as well. Over excitement at entry/welcome home and and during petting often prompts a pee. Keep in mind that what you think is over excitement is subjective and different in every dog. It's tricky to delineate as some dogs will pee when you merely glance or touch them when entering the home. Review some of the resources they will help. Building confidence as Tara suggest will also help greatly.
If you live in an apt. make sure things are not going on during the day that frustrate or scare your dog causing it to be so relieved to see you that it pees. As I recall I think someone had a pooch on this forum that flipped out (rightfully so) when the fire alarms where being tested in their building. Maybe you can record what goes on during the day to see if anyone or thing occurs that may be a problem for your dog's emotional well being.
Good luck
Snf
Thanks everyone for the help.