Thank You Brad! I am impressed that Jen can keep everybody's food in order in her head. Love Mochi on the cart! Since Luytiy is on duty, (rhymes) 24/7 is his crate & dog door always open unless you have company or something? Is that basically where they all sleep, too?
Since Luytiy is on duty, (rhymes) 24/7 is his crate & dog door always open unless you have company or something? -- Yes, his crate and dog door are always open - but - when we give them breakfast we lock him in his crate for a few hours, same with the other COs and Akita, this give Luytiy & Masha some "off time" and gives the smaller dogs (Kai, Shikoku, Shiba) and CCs some time to play w/o the big dogs.
Right now, as I mentioned in that video (tho it wasn't very clear, sorry), Luytiy's crate is totally broken. When we went out on Saturday to Santa Fe (for several hours), we came home to him out in the yard. \ So, he broke his crate for good this time. This is the 3rd one he has completely broken - I've been putting off getting him a kennel as I would like to get all the kennels at the same time (we plan to get 4), but looks like I will be purchasing a kennel just for him in the next week or so - which is an expense I was not planning on ($1200).
See, when I say Luytiy can be a "real ass" sometimes, this is the type of thing I'm referring to.
We could contain him in the barn (by closing the dog door off), but I'm worried he will eat his way out of the barn too - and that would be a much more costly fix. When he gets out, and is contained in the smaller yard, he just hangs in his den or on top of it and does his job - he does this all night too - so, in a way, its safer to just let him get out of the barn/crate then to try and contain him, at least until we get a real solid kennel. When he is in the smaller yard he would have to jump three 7' fences or a 10' fence to get out, he hasn't done that yet.
He has a scar on his muzzle from his crate-escape shenanigans: link
Is that basically where they all sleep, too? -- Yes, where the dogs are fed is also where they sleep - the ones that are out in the house for feeding are out in the house at night too (Hilo, Ahi, Blue). The COs always sleep in the barn. The Akita come inside if the temps drops to the single digits at night, but otherwise they sleep out there. The Akita spend about half the day in the house and the other half in the yard (save for the 2 hour "off time" mentioned above). Then, when its time for bed, we all walk out to the barn - the Akita seem to love it - they run out there all excited. I'll have to video it too. lol
We didn't want to put the Akita in the barn like that, as they are so good inside, but 4 Akita is just too much dog to have in a house - add the other dogs and it gets too crowded in here. We chose who would sleep in the barn based on their ability to adapt to the cold and their size. We'd LOVE to swap the Akita girls for the CCs, but the CCs couldn't deal with the colder temps like the Akita can. We may switch them in the summer tho.
what's the body heat differential for a barn full of CO and Akita vs outside? any insulation in the barn?
I once read about a woman who had a whole lotta (like 24) huskies in her home- it was a yurt or something in Canada maybe?- and she had to have a big dehumidifier because of all the exhaling all night long. As the article described her dumping out the dehumidifier bucket "two gallons of liquid dog breath."
Many days I aspire to have a small pack of 3 or 4 dogs, some days just the two I have and some (rare) days I imagine myself with one someday. I never feel like I want 5 or more, despite how impressed I am with the Anderson Pack. The dogs are all mine and I think I only have capacity (attention/time in my day) for 4 at most. It depends on the dog though- some need more individual attention than others. Mine are pretty independent, and I would suffocate with a velcro dog like the goldens I know. (can't imagine multi goldens leaning on me, veclroing to me... 8v{ eek!
"what's the body heat differential for a barn full of CO and Akita vs outside? any insulation in the barn?" -- I can't really give you a accurate answer here. Our barn has an insulated roof, but the walls are not. I planned to have them insulated but now that we have gone through a winter I dunno that I ever will, it works fine for any of the dog excluding the CCs and Maui. There is a noticeable temp difference when you go in the barn in the AM to let them out - I'd say 10 degrees, maybe more. When we go in in the AM the windows are all icy on the outside and fogged on the inside - from their hot breath.
As for your dog count comment, if you want my opinion...
If you want to maintain a "normal" vibe, I would not go over 3 dogs. If you are ok accepting that you live with dogs (and not the other way around), then I would set the limit at 5. Anything past 5 and its just a bit much.
I agree with your comment about it depending on the dog in regards to attention level. I dunno that we could make all this work, here on the ranch, if we had other breeds. Our breeds are pretty aloof, and so they require less Velcro time. The Akita and CC are the least aloof, so they tend to spend more time with us - and, TBQH, this makes it hard for us to put the Akita in the barn - we know they would rather be in our bedroom sleeping... but it was an logistical and environmental (temperature) call, and, at the end of the day, they spend as much time in the barn as they would in a crate in our house at night - meaning, they are only in the barn when we would crate them in the house (like when we leave or sleep).
I should note: Luytiy is not in the barn at night (tho he has access via the dog door), he is outside - he has his chill den too.
In December it dropped to -10F one night, I was up all night checking on Luyity... I was really nervous about him being out - tho everything you read implies CO lived w/o shelter in much cooler temps in Siberia and Armenia... I got up several times through the night, monitoring the temps and checking on him to see if he was ok.
Guess where he slept all night... On top of his den! The den actually maintains a warmer temp than the barn at times, it's solid cinder blocks filled with sand and partially subterranean, yet, he chose to be out in the wind, in -10F, on top of the den. \
At one point, around 3AM, I went out there to make sure he was not frozen. LOL... He got up all wiggly and excited to see me, I played with him for a minute (all I could stand at that temp) and before I went in he was actually panting! How? His cold tolerance kinda blows my mind a little.
My dogs are usually all fed in their crates (sometimes I'll feed them outside). During feeding time I tell them to "Kennel" and they all scramble into their crates . Lynx is food possessive (not with me but with all other animals) so I have her sit, I have her wait (like 5 seconds) and then I tell her to "eat". The Shikoku I just have sit and then I toss them their food...neither of them have any food aggression, they'd be happy to share from the same bowl with each other and the cats! Brad - I LOVE the Kai ordinament you have on your feeding cart =].
I made an updated feeding video, since things have changed a bit around here. This video co-stars me and Chase, not just Jen... So you get to see a blip of Chase and watch my fatness on video too! Exciting stuff! :oP
*I am pretty open with everyone about things in our life, but sometimes things happen that I do not want to talk about publicly. You will notice Chupa is not in the vid, Chupa is no longer with us. He was ill, and forced me to make a really hard choice, lets leave it at that. It's a scab I am not interested in picking. I appreciate you respecting my wishes and just letting it go.
I will update my multidog post as well, since I am in a new house. I have not established as consistent a feeding procedure here, and have been sortof reactive about it.(As in,hmm, Sage isnt eating, I'll move his dish outside and see if that helps) I have noticed very subtle indications that Reilly intimidates Sage and will take his food while he shys away. He will look anxious and reluctant, and not go to his bowl.when he doesnt go, Rei casually heads over to take it and I get all worked up because I fail and I dont want Rei eating Sage's meds. It is almost as if she told him in advance that he can't have it. So, I now gate Reilly in the studio and feed her there, Sage seems to prefer the deck (al fresco again). Interestingly, when I hand feed them, Sage is not tentative at all about eating, and Rei seems more reserved. Rei 'succeeds' when things are left to dogs to work out, but Sage benefits from "assigned seats" and is more comfortable with mom in control.
Great vid! I'd not come across this thread before, and had always been curious about feeding a passel o' dogs, so this was interesting! Loved seeing the pack, including the new member! (Chase!)
and I'm sorry about Chupa.
My feeding time is much easier, with only three. Toby eats in his crate or in the sunroom. Oskar in his crate. Bel won't eat in the crate so she eats in the kitchen, but she dilly dallys and always starts by "burying" her food (you know when they pretend to bury it with their noses?) and then she gets distracted enough to lick, and then she'll eat, but her whole dinner process may take 20-30 minutes before she is done...Right now I'm having some problems settling on a food for Oskar, but will take that up in the raw feeding thread.
@Chrys - We have some issues like that too Chrys, Ahi will sometimes take Blue's food (you notice in the video Blue didn't eat much), he will eat it tho once we come in and watch Ahi. lol
@Lisa - I love the fake "burying", Kaia does that too. It makes me giggle.
Yeah! Its so subtle, on some dogs-only wavelength- there's nothing you can see Rei doing, per se. Even with a keen eye. But Sage feels some pressure from her. As Suzanne said at the seminar "Confident dogs influence others from a great distance, and unsure dogs are influenced from a great distance." So I manage around it. One would think Sage would be a great candidate to benefit from crating, but no luck.
Sage sounds like Koda when it comes to eating around Maymay. But she is not so subtle about punking him. She thinks it's hilarious.
Brad and Jen, you make this look so simple. I'm amazed at your system you have got going on there, and I kind've fell in love with the CO's after that vid. But I am sooo in love with Zeta!!!!!
I'm really impressed with the CO's. I couldn't believe how calm they all were and just went to their kennels to eat. I was even impressed with Kahuna. But the CO's are just calm dogs when not on guard. It's got me wanting to do more research on them. I really don't know much about them except there's a CAO who sometimes comes to the park. Not sure if there's any similarity in personality.
I am still really really impressed, and the barn looks great with the kennels in it. I can't let my dogs see these videos, they may pack up their suitcases and hitch a ride to NM. Koda especially would love to be out in your yard all day. I don't think he'd ever come in.
Saya will try to bury her food when she ate kibble and when she eats raw.
She pretty much eats all her raw now, but sometimes she doesn't want to eat it all so she'll bury the meat with a towel. lol it's so cute to watch she'd tip her kibble over trying to bury it as a puppy.
Bella and Dink eats in the mud room they eat kibble while Saya eats in my room or outside.
Unfortunately Bella resource guards her kibble during meal times, so I gotta watch her when she eats and tell her to get out of the mud room when she is done.
I think the guarding issue came from when she was a puppy Dink our old mix breed pushed Bella out of the way and at her puppy kibble.. =\
It happened when my parent's fed her they don't watch the dogs to be sure Dink wouldn't do that.
CAO are similar to CO, but I have been told they are very dull in personality when compared to CO - but I have not spent much time with any CAO so I cannot comment on that truth. One day I am sure I will own a CAO, every now and then a really nice puppy will pop up on my radar and I will consider him/her for a second. LOL ... But I don't plan on owning one anytime soon - not unless I see an actual need for one (which is unlikely given how many guardians we have). I really considered the CAO as a warmer weather guard, but after doing research I found that they are no more tolerant of the heat than the CO are.
The CAO I know is a total bore! There's nothing about that dog that shows any real personality. Nice dog, but snore. I thought maybe it was because his owner had him in an apartment and he was just depressed.
If I ever bought a home here more on the mountain side, I could definitely see a place for a CO in my home to guard the dogs. See now I have to get a house with a huge backyard for a CO. This may become an obsession.
I loved the CO's in the video too....Pretty soon, we're all going to be getting them to guard our other dogs! *lol* (Though I admit, I've got such a soft spot for the Antatolians that I'd be more tempted by them....It's totally based on looks....I've only seen them from afar and never even really met one in any meaningful way...) I'm also very, very tempted by the Cano Corsos....
And as for boring....I have a friend who really wants a Great Pyrenees....Talk about boring....My neighbor has one....I don't think they guard much either (at least it's always the golden retriever I see out there barking and patrolling rather than the other dog). But to me, about as interesting as a rug.
Comments
-- Yes, his crate and dog door are always open - but - when we give them breakfast we lock him in his crate for a few hours, same with the other COs and Akita, this give Luytiy & Masha some "off time" and gives the smaller dogs (Kai, Shikoku, Shiba) and CCs some time to play w/o the big dogs.
Right now, as I mentioned in that video (tho it wasn't very clear, sorry), Luytiy's crate is totally broken. When we went out on Saturday to Santa Fe (for several hours), we came home to him out in the yard. \ So, he broke his crate for good this time. This is the 3rd one he has completely broken - I've been putting off getting him a kennel as I would like to get all the kennels at the same time (we plan to get 4), but looks like I will be purchasing a kennel just for him in the next week or so - which is an expense I was not planning on ($1200).
See, when I say Luytiy can be a "real ass" sometimes, this is the type of thing I'm referring to.
We could contain him in the barn (by closing the dog door off), but I'm worried he will eat his way out of the barn too - and that would be a much more costly fix. When he gets out, and is contained in the smaller yard, he just hangs in his den or on top of it and does his job - he does this all night too - so, in a way, its safer to just let him get out of the barn/crate then to try and contain him, at least until we get a real solid kennel. When he is in the smaller yard he would have to jump three 7' fences or a 10' fence to get out, he hasn't done that yet.
He has a scar on his muzzle from his crate-escape shenanigans: link
Is that basically where they all sleep, too?
-- Yes, where the dogs are fed is also where they sleep - the ones that are out in the house for feeding are out in the house at night too (Hilo, Ahi, Blue). The COs always sleep in the barn. The Akita come inside if the temps drops to the single digits at night, but otherwise they sleep out there. The Akita spend about half the day in the house and the other half in the yard (save for the 2 hour "off time" mentioned above). Then, when its time for bed, we all walk out to the barn - the Akita seem to love it - they run out there all excited. I'll have to video it too. lol
We didn't want to put the Akita in the barn like that, as they are so good inside, but 4 Akita is just too much dog to have in a house - add the other dogs and it gets too crowded in here. We chose who would sleep in the barn based on their ability to adapt to the cold and their size. We'd LOVE to swap the Akita girls for the CCs, but the CCs couldn't deal with the colder temps like the Akita can. We may switch them in the summer tho.
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I once read about a woman who had a whole lotta (like 24) huskies in her home- it was a yurt or something in Canada maybe?- and she had to have a big dehumidifier because of all the exhaling all night long. As the article described her dumping out the dehumidifier bucket "two gallons of liquid dog breath."
Many days I aspire to have a small pack of 3 or 4 dogs, some days just the two I have and some (rare) days I imagine myself with one someday. I never feel like I want 5 or more, despite how impressed I am with the Anderson Pack. The dogs are all mine and I think I only have capacity (attention/time in my day) for 4 at most. It depends on the dog though- some need more individual attention than others. Mine are pretty independent, and I would suffocate with a velcro dog like the goldens I know. (can't imagine multi goldens leaning on me, veclroing to me... 8v{ eek!
-- I can't really give you a accurate answer here. Our barn has an insulated roof, but the walls are not. I planned to have them insulated but now that we have gone through a winter I dunno that I ever will, it works fine for any of the dog excluding the CCs and Maui. There is a noticeable temp difference when you go in the barn in the AM to let them out - I'd say 10 degrees, maybe more. When we go in in the AM the windows are all icy on the outside and fogged on the inside - from their hot breath.
As for your dog count comment, if you want my opinion...
If you want to maintain a "normal" vibe, I would not go over 3 dogs. If you are ok accepting that you live with dogs (and not the other way around), then I would set the limit at 5. Anything past 5 and its just a bit much.
I agree with your comment about it depending on the dog in regards to attention level. I dunno that we could make all this work, here on the ranch, if we had other breeds. Our breeds are pretty aloof, and so they require less Velcro time. The Akita and CC are the least aloof, so they tend to spend more time with us - and, TBQH, this makes it hard for us to put the Akita in the barn - we know they would rather be in our bedroom sleeping... but it was an logistical and environmental (temperature) call, and, at the end of the day, they spend as much time in the barn as they would in a crate in our house at night - meaning, they are only in the barn when we would crate them in the house (like when we leave or sleep).
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In December it dropped to -10F one night, I was up all night checking on Luyity... I was really nervous about him being out - tho everything you read implies CO lived w/o shelter in much cooler temps in Siberia and Armenia... I got up several times through the night, monitoring the temps and checking on him to see if he was ok.
Guess where he slept all night... On top of his den! The den actually maintains a warmer temp than the barn at times, it's solid cinder blocks filled with sand and partially subterranean, yet, he chose to be out in the wind, in -10F, on top of the den. \
At one point, around 3AM, I went out there to make sure he was not frozen. LOL... He got up all wiggly and excited to see me, I played with him for a minute (all I could stand at that temp) and before I went in he was actually panting! How? His cold tolerance kinda blows my mind a little.
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http://www.volier.ru/gal.html#19
http://www.volier.ru/img/132-1.jpg
Brad, I hope this doesn't give you any ideas:)
*I am pretty open with everyone about things in our life, but sometimes things happen that I do not want to talk about publicly. You will notice Chupa is not in the vid, Chupa is no longer with us. He was ill, and forced me to make a really hard choice, lets leave it at that. It's a scab I am not interested in picking. I appreciate you respecting my wishes and just letting it go.
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I will update my multidog post as well, since I am in a new house. I have not established as consistent a feeding procedure here, and have been sortof reactive about it.(As in,hmm, Sage isnt eating, I'll move his dish outside and see if that helps) I have noticed very subtle indications that Reilly intimidates Sage and will take his food while he shys away. He will look anxious and reluctant, and not go to his bowl.when he doesnt go, Rei casually heads over to take it and I get all worked up because I fail and I dont want Rei eating Sage's meds. It is almost as if she told him in advance that he can't have it. So, I now gate Reilly in the studio and feed her there, Sage seems to prefer the deck (al fresco again). Interestingly, when I hand feed them, Sage is not tentative at all about eating, and Rei seems more reserved. Rei 'succeeds' when things are left to dogs to work out, but Sage benefits from "assigned seats" and is more comfortable with mom in control.
and I'm sorry about Chupa.
My feeding time is much easier, with only three. Toby eats in his crate or in the sunroom. Oskar in his crate. Bel won't eat in the crate so she eats in the kitchen, but she dilly dallys and always starts by "burying" her food (you know when they pretend to bury it with their noses?) and then she gets distracted enough to lick, and then she'll eat, but her whole dinner process may take 20-30 minutes before she is done...Right now I'm having some problems settling on a food for Oskar, but will take that up in the raw feeding thread.
@Lisa - I love the fake "burying", Kaia does that too. It makes me giggle.
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Love the army of CO. ~
Brad and Jen, you make this look so simple. I'm amazed at your system you have got going on there, and I kind've fell in love with the CO's after that vid. But I am sooo in love with Zeta!!!!!
The COs are good dogs, huh?
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I am still really really impressed, and the barn looks great with the kennels in it. I can't let my dogs see these videos, they may pack up their suitcases and hitch a ride to NM. Koda especially would love to be out in your yard all day. I don't think he'd ever come in.
She pretty much eats all her raw now, but sometimes she doesn't want to eat it all so she'll bury the meat with a towel. lol it's so cute to watch she'd tip her kibble over trying to bury it as a puppy.
Bella and Dink eats in the mud room they eat kibble while Saya eats in my room or outside.
Unfortunately Bella resource guards her kibble during meal times, so I gotta watch her when she eats and tell her to get out of the mud room when she is done.
I think the guarding issue came from when she was a puppy Dink our old mix breed pushed Bella out of the way and at her puppy kibble.. =\
It happened when my parent's fed her they don't watch the dogs to be sure Dink wouldn't do that.
CAO are similar to CO, but I have been told they are very dull in personality when compared to CO - but I have not spent much time with any CAO so I cannot comment on that truth. One day I am sure I will own a CAO, every now and then a really nice puppy will pop up on my radar and I will consider him/her for a second. LOL ... But I don't plan on owning one anytime soon - not unless I see an actual need for one (which is unlikely given how many guardians we have). I really considered the CAO as a warmer weather guard, but after doing research I found that they are no more tolerant of the heat than the CO are.
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If I ever bought a home here more on the mountain side, I could definitely see a place for a CO in my home to guard the dogs. See now I have to get a house with a huge backyard for a CO. This may become an obsession.
And as for boring....I have a friend who really wants a Great Pyrenees....Talk about boring....My neighbor has one....I don't think they guard much either (at least it's always the golden retriever I see out there barking and patrolling rather than the other dog). But to me, about as interesting as a rug.