What would you do? Choosing a puppy dilemma!

Comments

• okiron

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Ok, I'm gonna reword it and tell me if I got the right idea.
  
  Breeder 1 has a breeding you want a puppy from but puppy will come in the fall and who knows if there will be a puppy available.
  
  Breeder 2 has a puppy available but it's last minute.
  
  If I'm correct about that, I would personally wait for the breeding I want a puppy from. Yeah, I might not even get a puppy but I know I would semi-regret it if there was an available puppy for me and I couldn't get it. (Semi because I would love the one I got anyway, regardless of breeding)
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Actually, it's more like this: I really DO want a puppy from breeder 2 who has one now. They were originally my first choice.
  
  Breeder one is equally wonderful, and I might even like the breeder more, but I like the dogs slightly less.
  
  I'm just having doubts because I'm not sure I've thought through everything I need to think through, wonder if it is actually important to have met both breeders/dogs or not, etc.
• okiron

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Oh haha I had a complete fail moment in reading comprehension then. Go with breeder 2 then. Sure you might have to scrape up some cash for the last minute decision but long term it'll be worth it.
• Sangmort

  June 2010 edited June 2010

  "Prelimed" is the test done before the dog reaches 2, as the official OFA tests can't be done until after 2 years of age. [ when the dog has finished "gorwing" for the most part, & their bodies have "settled" ] From what I understand, [ from what other breeders and a couple of vets have told me ] they don't mean much as before the pup hits 2years old, there's a lot of stuff going on that can change. So a dog who "prelimed" excellent, maybe be OFA "Fair" at 2 or 3 years old.
  
  Wish I could offer advice, but I suck at this kind of thing. lol ~
• Sangmort

  June 2010 edited June 2010

  Just wanted to add...
  
  I don't want to comment on the breeder's too much...as I can't tell much from their websites, nor have I ever heard of them or spoken to them. I will say I do like the fact that that Hoka Hey mentions Rescue as a first option on their breeding page, & also discloses what health problems they've had in their lines right on their website. I really didn't find any useful info on Liberty's website other than "general" info, but I did like the fact they require you to take pictures of your house / yard to send to them as well as provide references. [ as does Hoka Hey ]
  
  Is there a reason why you haven't looked a little farther than closer to home? Sometimes the best of breeders are on the other side of the country... ~
• JessicaRabbit

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Go with puppy 2. Go with the dogs you like better. It is great if you like the first breeder, but the reality is you have to live with the dog not the breeder. Money comes and goes. Budgets get tight. But the right dog is going to be with you hopefully well over a decade and a half.
• dlroberts

  June 2010 edited November -1

  I agree with what others have said so far. Go with puppy 2. Sometimes it feels good to do something "crazy" like get a puppy last minute. (I may have just done exactly that. ;-)) You've been thinking about getting an Akita for months now, and you have plenty of experience with a three dog household. Don't overthink it, you'll drive yourself crazy. Talk to them on the phone again, and if you're still comfortable, pull the trigger and then stop worrying. There's nothing like over analyzing a good decision to generate some undeserved self-loathing. :-)
  
  Good luck, and let us know what you decide!
• tjbart17

  June 2010 edited November -1

  I agree too. Go with Puppy #2. Get the dog you want.
• sunyata

  June 2010 edited November -1

  I also agree. Go with the dog you want. You will have to live with the DOG, not the breeders! (Granted, you still want to make sure they are reputable breeders who will be there if you need them, which I am sure you have.)
  
  And, like Dave said, sometimes it really does feel good to do something crazy... like get a puppy last minute or buy a new car on impulse...
• dlroberts

  June 2010 edited November -1

  LOL. I've done both of those things this year Casey. And it has been AWESOME!
• Sangmort

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Can you feel the peer pressure Lisa? LOL ~
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Ha, Osy! I can! I really appreciate thoughts, and Dave, I really AM overthinking it! I tend to get like this when I have a big decision.
  
  I sent in the last things Hoka Hey wanted: pics of my yard and fence, a bit more info. on my shibas, and my references. So I'm going to get a puppy there IF they accept me.....She still could turn me down...
  
  About the two breeders: I think both are quite good. Liberty does have less info. on their website, but I spent quite a bit of time talking to them at the dog shows, and felt good about them, their dogs, and their involvement in Akita activities (Mike Bennet is the President of ACA, for example). They did do rescue as well, not sure if they currently are, but they had good relations with the rescue orgs, as I noted they spent time with the NMARG people. I will say, that if Liberty were breeding the young dog I met at the show, I would be absolutely going for them, but he is only 7 mos old, so it would be a bit more of a wait than I'm up for. (That dog came out of Kiowa akitas, and if he is any indication of their breeding lines, they must be fantastic, because he was a great looking dog and so sweet!). But I also liked Hoka Hey's concern for health, honesty about health issues, and frankly, their concern about me and my dogs is really good, and shows how much they care about placing their dogs.
  
  So we'll see. I suppose she might not like my fence (standard wire stock fence). But I hope it works out, and while I think it is important for them to evaluate the pups and figure out which one might work best for us, I have to say I am not-so-secretly harboring a deep desire for the brindle pup with the black face!
  
  I do sometimes wish I was closer to breeders....would be nice to actually meet a variety of people's dogs. I did meet some dogs from a local breeder and didn't like them. They were gorgeous. They win a lot of shows. They were QUITE expensive for pets. And the show dogs were also pretty aggressive in the ring (a lot of snapping, growling, posturing), which made me think they'd be even worse at home, so NOT the dogs for me.
• jm1613

  June 2010 edited November -1

  I like dlroberts response. Reminds me of the saying, "measure twice, cut once."
• Tengai

  June 2010 edited November -1

  20 years ago I had Akita's that were related to some of the dogs in Cesar's pedigree(brook-staten dogs). I actually e-mailed and spoke the the people at hoka hey about 6 years ago before getting into Shibas. I seriously was thinking about going back to akitas and wanted dogs that went back to the line I had 20 years ago(the brook-staten dogs had wonderful temperments). We decided on shibas but still love those akitas!
  Phil
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Thanks Phil....always good to get someone else's take on the dogs and temperment. I think Cesar is gorgeous, and it's good to hear the dogs from his line have good temperments.
  
  I'll let you all know when I find out if I'm actually getting a pup or not....
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Uodate:
  
  or rather none....I'm feeling seriously frustrated again. After the initial, we may have a pup from Hoka Hey, I'm now just stuck in puppy limbo. Part of it is totally understandable: they don't know, yet, which pups will be show quality or not (the pups are 4 weeks old on Sat), and so are not sure which are available. Fair enough.
  
  But i'm also not getting an answer on whether I am even an approved home. And I did say I need to have some lead time here: I can't just up and drive to Oregon from NM on a weeks notice: my husband has to take off, we need to find someone to take care of the other dogs, etc. The response I got was polite, but was pretty much, sorry, we can't tell you anything, don't know when we will be able to tell you anything, and if you don't want to wait until we make a decision, go elsewhere.
  
  Ugh. I had to really NOT respond out of my frustration, because I keep reminding myself that I really like the dogs, and I am not going to have to deal with the breeder forever; it's the dog, not the breeder. But a part of me is really feeling frustrated by all this, and I'm kind of feeling jerked around here....is it unreasonable 4 weeks out to actually want to have an idea of whether you might get a pup or not? If she'd told me I was on a waiting list, I'd expect this, but she has told me NOTHING except that she might have a pup available and that I MIGHT be an acceptable home.
  
  I told her, then, that I'd wait to hear if they had a puppy, but that she could not expect me to arrive in Oregon on little or no notice to get a puppy given how far away I live. I guess now I'll just wait and see, and not expect anything. But I have to say it is only the fact that I really like these dogs that's making me hold on here. I'm finding the breeder kind of difficult to deal with it. And I know breeding is supposed to be mostly about the dogs, but you know, if you're selling something to people, it is a business too, and maybe a little more clarity and straightforwardness would be nice here. (I mean surely it wouldn't hurt to call my references and actually tell me if I'm approved or not? How did she approve the other people if she doesn't call references til the last minute?)
  
  I am finding this exceedingly frustrating.
• Sangmort

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Just MHO, even tho it is about the dog, & not the breeder...I think the breeder does play a crucial role. They're the ones you call to support you throughout the pup's life, so even tho you're only buying the pup "once," I think it's important to remember the breeder is a big part of your support network for that specific puppy.
  
  ---
  
  I understand how frustrated you must be. It sucks. Totally understand why too. Hopefully, everything will work out ~
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Thanks Osy...I've thought about this too....that maybe they are just going to be too difficult to deal with, and do I really want that? I know I can find other support than the breeder if I need it, but it is giving me pause.
  
  I do kind of feel like they're hoping to get someone "better" than me with my Shibas, but don't want to tell me no completely because what if no one else wants the pup? Here's this woman in NM who will take it! That's probably not true, but it does kind of feel that way.
  
  Well, I'm not committed either, so I guess I'll just wait and see and hope the other breeder who is super cool and helpful ends up with a breeding soon....
• okiron

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Aww I could understand the frustration. I'm sorry. I wish they would at least tell you if you'd get a puppy if 1 became available. That's complete limbo right there.
• ayk

  June 2010 edited November -1

  Did you specify that the Akita would be a pet-only? I wonder if you are right and maybe they are trying to find more show/breeder homes for this litter? It looks to be the first litter out of both Caesar and Jinx, and to have more of their progeny out in shows would promote both dogs' reputations.
  
  Or do you think they are shying away from placing a pup with you so soon after your GSD died?
  
  Could they have gotten a vibe that it would be a financial struggle for you to care for the dog even after the initial cost of the puppy with all the talk about things being tight and the drive being difficult to arrange?
  
  I'm just trying to see the other side of this. I have no knowledge of the AA world.
  
  
  If it's any consolation if you do decide to walk away from this breeder, Caesar would have sired this litter right when he turned 2 yrs old (his DOB 4/05/08) while Jinx would have been bred at about 18 months of age (her DOB 7/27/08). That's why their hips are prelim only and not official. The temptation to breed an import must have swayed them.
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited November -1

  I think the breeder is just less than stellar in terms of communication. Almost every single time I've written, I've had to write more than once. And I did get an email back from her yesterday thanking me for my patience, and she said she'd try to let me know as soon as she can.
  
  She does know I'm looking for a pet only, and I know part of the hold up is to see if one of the four males will be show quality and also if one will be a long coat or not. (seems like you'd be able to tell on the long coat thing by four weeks, but what do I know?).
  
  I don't think she has problems with Kai....I contacted her when he was still alive and we discussed it. I also don't think it's a financial issue, as certainly we haven't talked about that at all...and it's not a problem, except for the fact that it would have been easier in a month or two. The thing that annoys me about trying to arrange to get the dog, is really? Can anyone just suddenly take time off and drive across the country with little to no notice? I don't think many people can. And I had also toyed with the idea of flying out instead and bring a pup back with me, but obviously, if I'm not going to get the lead time to buy a ticket at a reasonable price.
  
  But I've kind of made my peace with this as much as I can. If a pup becomes available, I'll have to decide then if it will be possible. If not, so be it. And I hadn't looked at the dates, but yes, I do see now these dogs are both very young, and there is the prelim only on the hips, so if it doesn't happen, perhaps that will be best.
• *JackBurton*

  June 2010 edited November -1

  From what little experience I have with placing pups (IE watching someone else) - no major decisions were made until week 5-6. Don't quote me but in the litter that I just took photos for, the coats did not show up until week 5-ish.
  
  I got to look at lots of peoples applications are how they were ranked. Below is an example
  
  0) Pick of the litter.
  1) Show quality, lives in socal, willing to breed, and does not own other dogs (or they are fixed)
  2) Show quality, lives in California, willing to breed, etc etc
  3) Pet quality, lives in California (spay/neuter contract)
  4) Pet quality, outside of California (spay/neuter contract)
  
  I may be off but I'm close enough for internet posts. In this case there was 7 akitas, and it was looking like 7 show quality ones at that. Three turned out to be long coats and thus became pets. The long coat was the only reason there were any pets. So if you were waiting for one of the pups in this litter then you would be out.
  
  Looking at some of the emails, people would write like there would be x number shows and x number of pets. In fact I remember one, where the person said, I will take a brindle pet and silver brindle is better. All I could say to myself is .....wtf
  
  I personally do not know your arrangements but I hope this helps explain the breeders viewpoint.
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited June 2010

  Actually, thanks, that makes a lot of sense, and does help make the situation clearer, esp. regarding when long coats show up (I imagine it varies, too, but this is useful info.) I do think my biggest issue is simply lack of communication: hearing that for example, makes sense to me, and I would just say, well, ok, I understand where I'm at in all this. But not hearing anything is difficult.
  
  Well, it's a lesson in persistence, that's for sure.
• Sangmort

  June 2010 edited June 2010

  Just also wanted to add, some breeders are pretty elusive. Even if you have a deposit down &/or a signed contract, they can still be hard to get a hold of. [ & at this point...I've spoken to a lot of breeders over the past 2 years, NK & non NK alike lol Tho definitely not as much as some here, like Brad ]
  
  I've only found 2 breeders that kept regular contact with me & responded quickly. The first was Katja [ she always responds to me within a day or two ] & the second was my dutchie's breeder. She literally responds within an hour or two. The other breeders, while I know they are great by their reputation alone, [ among other things ] can sometimes take up to 2 weeks to get back. Annoying, but I guess that's the way it is sometimes. [ some of them do have day jobs, families, etc. ]
  
  Not trying to make excuses or anything, just sharing my experiences ~
• shibamistress

  June 2010 edited June 2010

  Sounds like it really was simply a communication issue, very much like what Osy is talking about above. Just busy.
  
  Cuz I just got an email apologizing for being a "slacker" and it had a huge bunch of puppy pics attached! Yay! They are SO cute (4 weeks old) and I can totally see how you can't really tell anything yet about them.....
  
  Anyway, I'm thrilled to see them....and I figure it's a good sign....if she really wasn't serious about me, I doubt she'd bother to send pics, so I'm feeling cautiously optimistic. (Ok, I'm lying, I'm just thrilled and very hopeful!) One of pups is a like a funny opposite of the father: the sire has a black chest with a big white heart on it, and the pup has a white chest with a black heart! All have black faces, which I love
• Tengai

  June 2010 edited November -1

  When I have/plan a litter of Shiba pups it's always with the intention of keeping at least one. I sometimes keep people waiting for a final answer until the pups are at least 8 weeks old. We have decided to keep a pup and we also have decided to place a pup that we had every intention of keeping at the "last minute". I tell people that up front and also tell someone if they are "approved" up front.
  Good luck and be patient, sounds like things will happen.
  
  Phil
• shibamistress

  July 2010 edited November -1

  I got more pics of the pups yesterday--so cute! Still don't know for sure, but it's getting closer! I also talked to the other breeder I like, and told her there was a possibility I'd get a pup from another breeder, and she was bummed, but did tell me that she thought Hoka Hey had great dogs too, so she understood. (Those people at Liberty are super cool, and I absolutely would get one of their dogs if this doesn't work)
  
  And thanks for thoughts, esp. from the breeders side....helps me make sense of it all!
• the_november_rain

  July 2010 edited November -1

  no spam?
• shibamistress

  July 2010 edited November -1

  I do have some, I just feel odd about it since I don't actually know if I'll get one of these dogs or not. But when I think about it, I realize I was thinking "these aren't my pics! I can't post them!" but they wouldn't be any MORE mine if I was getting a puppy, so with the understanding that I might not even get one of these dogs (even though I really really hope I will) here are some pics. Two boys look like the first boy, the brown one, and one is black and white and one (not pictured) is a very dark brindle.
  
  Mama Jinx with 6 of the pups: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4752785089_f141927fab.jpg
  
  a boy: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4095/4753426170_b61b0a5c2b.jpg
  
  a boy that looks like his sire: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4746257379_bfbe52fa91.jpg
  
  a girl that looks like her sire: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4746257421_58f6acb274.jpg
• the_november_rain

  July 2010 edited November -1

  aww! CUTE. Thanks!! The mum is pretty too.