Alaskan Klee Kai
So I was up at like 2am last night, just watching some Nat Geo and there was this dog, the Alaskan Klee Kai, i've never heard of them. Basically a mini huskie. They are adoarable! Everything a normal huskie has, bottled up in that little body. I thought they were cute...I would probably never get one though...not really my type of dog.
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Those dogs are the bane of my existence! They are a designer breed. Someone saw a beautiful Husky and said wouldn't it be neat if we made them tiny? AAAAHHHH'
they are cute. just aaaaahhhhh
They are very cute but I have never seen one up close before. They remind me of a shiba a little bit.
I have a question for those of you who have ever had a husky - are they comparible to the shiba or japanese breeds? I am thinking about getting one, I have wanted one for ever and thinking about getting an all white one or the black and white, and if I did decide to get one I dont know if I would get a male or female, because having a female shiba who thinks she is the alpha, I dont know if getting a male or female would be better.
I am not a fan of the Klee Kai - they have rat-like faces. They kinda gross me out.
Huskies are very similar to Shibas. They have a real naughty phase, they are smart, they can be destructive if not properly exercised, they run like the wind when they are free, and they have tons of energy. A lot of them are also good at climbing fences and going right over.
You would probably want a male husky to be paired more evenly with your female Shiba. If she is alpha, try and seek out a non-alpha male. Also I wouldn't go for all white unless it is a rescue, most dogs are not supposed to be all white and often it is a sign of genetic deficiencies. I'd really like to get a husky too. There are always some that need rescuing, as most people can't meet their needs and just give them up.
Huskies are very similar to Shibas. They have a real naughty phase, they are smart, they can be destructive if not properly exercised, they run like the wind when they are free, and they have tons of energy. A lot of them are also good at climbing fences and going right over. "
I think Brandon is pretty right on about Siberians. I should know as they are the only breed I ever owned until my Shikoku. My parents got their first one when I was only 1 year old and at one point, I had 3 (2 rescues and 1 I got as a puppy). My mom still has Siberians (usually 1 to 2). Siberians are REALLY smart, but also quite independent. When I was looking for a "new" Spitz breed, reading all about the Shiba sounded SO much like my experience with Siberians. The are super dogs, it is just that I wanted a more "people" pleasing dog that really wanted to please all the time and not part of the time. They ARE escape artists, so be prepared to make your yard like Fort Knox because if they get out, they will not be back until they are done running. Some differences I feel from Shibas are that they are more dog friendly (ie, work in packs and get along better with many dogs) and are not generally shy or reserved around strangers like Shibas can be. Both Shikoku breeders (Katja and Peggy) have owned Siberians, so if you are familiar with them (via Shikoku), you can pick their brain.
I also find the Klee Klai kind of strange looking - I much prefer how a Siberian looks.
Edgewood wrote:
"The are super dogs, it is just that I wanted a more "people" pleasing dog that really wanted to please all the time and not part of the time."
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So are you implying that you feel a Shikoku fits what you where looking for?
Brad,
Yes!! Yes!! Yes!! At least my Shikoku (n=1) is a VERY people pleasing dog and very easy to train for obedience. And although I did train all of my Siberians to the Novice (lowest level of competition obedience), this Shikoku is MUCH easier to train and work with BECAUSE he really, really wants to please me. He doesn't have his own agenda, he always goes to work for me. At just around 4 months, he is pretty confirmed in all the "competition" obedience patterns and commands. He is still learning, and he makes mistakes at times, but they are learning mistakes and not "I just don't feel like it today" mistakes. If I raise my voice at all towards him, he will start randomly doing obedience commands in hopes of pleasing me.
I actually think that Peggy and Katja did an excellent job of describing Shikoku on their web sites and both said that these dogs were very loyal and not as independent as a Shiba. Hope that answers your question! Is Ahi similar to what I am describing about Kuma?
So far, for my tastes and personality, the Shikoku is the PERFECT amalglamation of everything I loved in Siberians without having things I disliked. I get a Nordic/Spitz breed that wants to be trained and work for (and have fun with) me. And my Kuma is very reliable off lead, at least at home around my farm -- something my Siberians were not.
I just wanted to hear if you felt that they fit that mold. Ahi trained fast and works very hard, but I would not consider her to be a "people pleaser". I think she is just to dominant of a dog to really want to please anyone - but when she is working she does work hard and continually checks in with her person to make sure she is doing things correctly. Ahi will work non-stop for as long as you need her too, with no complaints - but when it comes to general obedience she tends to get a littel "selective hearing". Honestly Ahi has no manners, yet she has been trained more than any of our dogs!
Loa on the other hand sounds very much like your Kuma - she is mos def into pleasing people. She does the same thing when you raise your voice - sits, lays down, offer her paw... anything to make you not upset (and it tends to work).
The core of what I was asking really stems from my interest in trying to compare Peggy's dogs to Katja's dogs... in a positive way. Seems both of them have done an amazing job refining the temperament of the dogs they produce - it is rather humbling.
Ahi was from a very early litter, so I think she may just be lacking some of that "refinement" [selective breeding] - she is a bit more raw.
Ah, that is interesting. Yes, Loa does sound a lot like Kuma (does the same behaviors to please). Interesting that Ahi is more independent. It would be interesting to compare the pedigrees. I know that Kuma is line bred to 2 main male dogs on both the top and bottom of his pedigree (great- grandfathers) so that both appear once in the male and once in the female sides of the pedigree. In dog breeding, line breeding is used to solidfy traits (hopefully only the good traits). He is definitely not as linebred as some other breeds of dogs, but he has some linebreeding. I know that I posted a link to a Japanese Shiba breeder who was discussing 2 well know breeders in Japan who either do or do not line breed (Shibas). Each had their reasons for doing line breeding (ie, solidfying type and better prediction of offspring) vs no linebreeding. It might be interesting to see if that might be the key. It is interesting because Kuma's line breeding originated in Japan (ie, parents of the dogs who were imported to Holland).
Or it could just be differences that naturally occur. I breed horses and many full siblings are nothing alike, so it is not surprising that non-siblings (like Ahi and Loa) would be different from each other.
Brad - I think Rakka is like Ahi . She learns really fast and is qutie obedient when we give her direct orders, but she has very poor manners. She can instantly tell who she can push around, too. She doesn't jump up and act crazy to people who don't let her, but she can be quite dominant towards people who don't know how to take control.
I'm looking for a search and rescue breed and I would be extremely happy if I found a spitz breed that had a good track record in that regard. Shikokus I think have the ability, but being dog aggressive is an automatic disqualifier, so I'm not willing to try it with a shikoku until I've had more experience training/socializing dogs. So far, I'm considering norrbottenspets and norwegian buhunds. I was just going to get a nova scotia duck tolling retriever (the only non-spitz breed I really like) but none of the breeders will let you vaccinate the dogs and you have to for search and rescue... anyway... I'm babbling on and on, but point being, I'm all about the obedient spitz breeds!
I agree that it would be interesting to compare the pedigrees and that is really what I was getting at - trying to figure out what line seem to produce the most balanced Shikoku and how much linebreeding was needed to solidify those traits. Obviously it would be best to get those desired traits solidified by simple selective breeding, but with such a limited gene pool that's probably not possible.
Ahi's brothers and sisters seem to be less-dominant than Ahi... So it could just be a naturally occurring thing.
ok - well let me change my last statement (after reading Heidi's post)...
Most of Ahi's brothers and sisters are less-dominant.
I've considered the Karelian Bear Dog. I contacted a breeder who had sold one puppy to do search and rescue and they are known to be good at it. I'm still very much in the research process, though. Noah seems to prefer Norwegian Buhunds, but there aren't a lot of examples of them actually doing SAR, although most owners and breeders feel they are very capable due to their willingness to please and high drive, being herding dogs and all.
The norrbottenspets have a lot going for them, in my mind, but Noah says they're ugly. Here's an interesting link about them, though:
http://nordicdog.net/working.htm
Have you considered the Jamthund?
For what i know they're pretty calm, and they are the Swedish Air Force service dogs, so i think they should be very trainable. And they have good endurance too.
Heidi, for what you prefer, Iceland Sheepdogs seem better, yes.
And the fact that they are sheepdogs, probably makes them a bit more willing to please, and that might help too.