Foolish stupidity

katokato
edited August 2010 in General
I did a few months research into different breeds, and then specific research on the couple of breeds I was most interested in, finally narrowing it down to the shikoku.

I then checked where the breeders were in Europe, and was mentally prepared for a long year or so wait (which is good, because I will most likely be moving in January, and it gives me time to do a load more preparation) before I would finally be able to get my shikoku puppy. In initial contact with the breeders, they seemed very nice and I was really encouraged that it would work out well...

...until I mentioned what country I was from.

Stupidly, I completely neglected to take into account the fact that I live in the UK. I really don't know why I did this. I think it's because I'd seen some information on the Europe Pet Passsports, and one of the breeders is in France. France -> UK is such a short distance, and isn't at all expensive. Was quite happy going out there to see the parents, collect the puppy and so on.

Unfortunately it seems that importing to the UK is somewhat more complicated than in most of Europe. Elsewhere I think you just need proof of the rabies vaccination. Here you need to have various blood tests carried out. The breeder said it is very expensive, and would take many months.

So that's kind of crushed that hope for a while. My girlfriend and I are planning on moving to Japan in a couple of years, so maybe I will be able to get one when we're there.

I appreciate that this isn't very interesting to any of you :D I just found out and was a bit gutted. Had been getting excited about finally starting this lengthy process.

One day I will be on here posting random spam about my new puppy.

One day...

Comments

  • shishiinushishiinu
    Wow thats really sucks. Well if you were to get the pup in England and then move to Japan its even more of a pain in the rear. Japan also has strict animal import regulations so maybe waiting untill you get over to Japan is a better idea. I know when I took Yuki back for a little while, she had to stay at the animal quantine kennel for almost 30 days.

    On a brighter note if you get a pup in Japan and decide to go back to the UK but want to return to Japan, make sure you get the pup micro chipped in Japan so that you dont have to keep the dog in quarantine. Its only a 45 min wait if you have a dog microchipped in Japan that you decide to take back to Japan.
  • katokato
    Yeah, it's probably better getting one there. Might actually be able to see a few in real life before getting one. Luckily Japan is included on the pets travel scheme, so once I get all the stuff done (takes 6 months after the blood tests), they can come back to England happily enough.

    Not sure I'm quite up to the challenge to conducting business in Japanese. Got two years to get to that level :D
  • white_bearwhite_bear
    Honestly, Arron, it's not that bad. There is only a 6-month period and it's not expensive at all!! All that the breeder has to do is to take a bit of blood to a lab to do the titer for rabies - if the breeder uses a good vaccine like Nobivac for example the titer will be good and you have to wait only 6 months since the blood sample is taken. So, if the puppy is born like now the breeder can test it in december and you can have it by next summer. Or maybe there is already a puppy available and you could wait less. You should check out defra, here
    http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/index.htm

    Honestly, if I managed to do it in Romania, ANY breeder can do it in Western Europe.
  • katokato
    edited August 2010
    Well, the process doesn't seem too bad, and it's good if it doesn't cost too much, because we will likely be going through it at some point. I think the main thing is that ideally we wanted to get a puppy. My girlfriend's parents have bred dogs for a while, so we know they're pretty crazy, but we'd still like one.

    So it's not that we couldn't do it at all, just that the dog would no longer be a puppy by the time we got it.
  • white_bearwhite_bear
    edited August 2010
    Oh, you're right when you put it like that. I didn't see it as an inconvenience as I am all in favour of getting a Junior. Of course, it depends on who is the breeder too,

    Well, you could always move for 6 months to continental Europe and then go back to UK LOL. Just kidding, I know it's not an option.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    i've wondered what the process is these days in the UK (just out of curiosity). So how does it work? You have to have a titer test done on the pup and then can't get the pup for six months? Does it have to be in quarantine or can it stay with the breeder or what?

    The American Akita puppy I got was supposed to go to England--his dam is an English import and he was supposed to go to the breeder there, but my breeder decided not to send him (might be that he's not show quality, but they also said they really didn't want to have him go so far and have to go through such a complicated process. Lucky for me!)

    I'm sorry that you have such hurdles to jump, though.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    We got an Akita from France who had to be held with the breeder (in France) due to the rabies thing, but only till 4 months old. I would caution you about something I consider a very serious risk: getting an older puppy from a breeder puts a lot of responsibility in the hands of the breeder for socialization.

    A puppy's socialization window closes at between 12 and 16 weeks. If your puppy is not properly socialized during that time period you (and the dog) will pay for it for the rest of that dog's life - this could mean fear aggression, an inability to bond with you (the owner), and/or health issues.

    If you do this, and have to wait 6 months (which is WAY passed the socialization window), you should be certain that the breeder you get your puppy from will take your puppy off-property and socialize them correctly. This means you go to the kennel and see with your eyes that they take measures to socialize their puppies. I'd even pay extra for them to take the puppy to puppy classes.

    This was not the case for our Akita that came from France and he has suffered from extreme fear issues and anxiety from day one. Same applies to an Akita we got at 6 months from Poland, she was not socialized much and was a real mess from it.

    To some extend I think we can blame the bloodlines of these 2 examples, but the genetic fear issues were greatly augmented by the lack of socialization during that socialization window, and I am certain that, had they been socialized properly, they would not have had such extreme fear issues.

    ----
  • venusvenus
    we though about importing to the uk as well but reading brads experience really put me off tbh, the youngest age for a pup imported to the uk would be 10months old as the system stands now. i know when we looked into it last year the breeder i contacted did passport his pups but charged a kenneling fee while the puppy was under his care. in all the cost of the kenneling, vacs and transport worked out at about £1500 plus the price of the puppy purchased. but he also required puppy owners visit his pups atleast 3 times while under his care so if the costs of those trips where added it probably would have been much more.
    we decided to not only not import but to not buy for now, not feeling 100% happy with any breeder in the uk and the worry that we could end up with the issues brad had when he imported i felt the risk was just to much, we're not rich people and i'd rather wait til i'm happy to part with large amounts of cash that my puppy will be as healthy and well balanced as possible.
  • white_bearwhite_bear
    Shibamistress, the process is very simple in fact but a lot of people are scared of it because it's a bit difficult to get sufficient information. It's the same for all dogs regardless of age. Once the pup is vaccinated against rabies (better done with a monovalent type of vaccine because it increases the chances of getting the right level of antibodies - I used Nobivac R and had no problems) you have to take a blood sample to a specific lab in your country, pay the fee - in Romania it's the equivalent of $70 or smth like that - and then wait for 6 months. Of course, it's best to keep the pup with you (as a breeder), because otherwise it needs to stay for 6 months in quarantine in specialized locations near the UK border. And THAT is horribly expensive, leaving aside the socialization of the pup - which is nonexistent there.

    Venus, those costs are enormous, where the hell did you want to get the pup from???

    I don't know, I know breeders that I would trust to leave my pup for 6 months. But it takes time to build that trust. Brad raised some VERY good points, there are many breeders that shouldn't be trusted and unfortunately it's difficult to spot them if you're not in the region and/or don't know the right people.
  • katokato
    It seems to add another layer of factors that you need to consider. For shikokus, I was quoted a price of around 2000 euro, and then however much it would cost to actually get it here (hopefully wouldn't be loads from France). Obviously I'd need to make sure I had a lot set aside for vets bills, obedience training and other things in general too. If you are then being charged for the 10-12 months that the breeder is having to keep your puppy before you can get it, the cost is getting pretty insane.

    And those are just the financial factors. Then there's the issue of proper socialisation that Brad brought up. I don't know the breeders personally. Has anyone had experience with Catherine Louche or Izyda Bach-Żelewska?

    My thoughts are that even if I decided I was happy with a junior, I don't think I would be able to do the whole process properly at the moment anyway. Couldn't afford the flights back and forth that I would want to take to visit during those months. As such, waiting seems like the best option for now, until I'm better able to deal. Maybe I'll just follow white_bear's suggestion and move to continental Europe for a year at some point :D
  • white_bearwhite_bear
    edited August 2010
    This comment is not for you, Arron, but for Brits in general that want to travel to continental Europe - I frequently take Wizzair to London Luton (I'm from Romania) and it costs smth like 100 quid or so there and back. There's also blueair and some other low cost companies. And, if you drive to get the pup the costs are much lower. Or you can ask the breeder to bring the pup over (if he's coming to crufts or whatever) - although I would be horrified of driving on the wrong side of the road LOL. Otherwise, from what I remember, you can only use British Airways to fly the pup in and they charge an embarrassing amount of money just because they are the only ones allowed to do it.


    OH, I forgot to mention I know all this because I followed the procedure to get my pet JA to London while I was studying there, unfortunately it got too expensive (accommodation and transport) and I had to shorten my stay in UK to come back sooner. So I went through all these steps with paperwork, blood tests and evth.
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