Explain this behavior

BradA1878BradA1878
edited November 2010 in Behavior & Training
What do you think Blue is doing in this video?





Does he want to play? Is he being a referee? Is my presence confusing him? Is he bullying Naum? Is he picking a fight? What's he doing?

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Comments

  • aykayk
    edited November 2010
    Trick question? :-)

    I know I'll get this wrong, but to me, he's trying to be your enforcer. The two young CO are wrestling mildly, but in his estimation, they're disrupting order. He's anticipating that you'll be intervening.
    Naun is just being picked on because he's already picked on. If Kodi was the one being picked on, then Blue would go after Kodi.



    Edit: Another thought had occurred to me that he does want to play, but because his style of play is so excited?heated?sharp?, he's used to it being aborted by you. Hence he's checking back to you so much.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    I too will probably get this wrong but I think he's just trying to get a rise out of Naum. It's kind've a lil sh*t type of playing that probably only entertains himself and not the other dog. I'm a bit amazed at how tolerant the CO are. Nice!
  • sukoshi_momsukoshi_mom
    Maybe Blue is confused. Should he play with these dogs? How does he do it? Should he referee? Could he play with one of them (change the interaction)?

    And to you: " What am I supposed to do???"

    My two bits. Have seen this at the dog park.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    @ayk - Not a trick question. I honestly am not sure what he is doing in the video. I like your edit Ann , that sounds like a pretty plausible explanation.

    @tjbart17 - My initial feeling was that he was being a bit of a turd too - poking at Naum wanting to get a rise out of him. But when I watch the video closely there is too much communication happening between Blue and Naum. There's a lot of information being exchanged there, and that is why I am not clear on what Blue is doing.

    Naum and Kodi always play like this, one of them beats up on the other. Sometimes it worries me and I ask them to stop, and they do... then the one that was being picked on goes and starts the session again, and goes beck to being picked on... so I have decided that it is handicapping, which is a good thing, it just looks so rough and nasty with the COs.

    In the video I say Naum told Blue to "f-off"... but once I got the video off my camera and watched it I am not so sure it was Naum growling/barking at Blue, I think it was just Blue. Blue used to play with Masha all the time, Masha did really well with his "heated" play style but Naum and Luytiy do not do well with it... Kodi does well with it, but he is still young and I don't want him to be hurt (or form a negative association) so I tend to not let Blue get too crazy with Kodi (so you are right about the reason why Blue may be checking in with me).

    I placed Zeta with some good friends here in Taos, but this is one of the main reasons why we got Zeta - was for Blue to have someone to play 100% with and to guard the yard with in the summer. Then I realized that Zeta was too nice of a dog to keep for such a limited working roll. She was a real treasure, and I felt she needed to be with a family where she would get a lot of attention from guests and stuff. We placed her with our friends with the understanding that she may come back here from time to time to play with Blue and help him work in the summer. Kinda funny. :o)

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  • SangmortSangmort
    To my uneducated eye, it looks like he's refereeing.

    When Wraith & Buddha the Pittie are playing really hard, Appollo the lab / chow mix does to them what Blue did to those two CO.

    But, that's just my uneducated guess ;) ~
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    @sukoshi's mom - Yea, I agree. That could be it too. I've read that dogs typically only play in pairs, and so maybe he is like "I want in, let me in!" or something. Then maybe he is looking at me because I'm hanging out a window recording him like "why are you being so strange, dad?" ... LOL ... Meanwhile I'm asking all of you why he's being so strange. LOL!
  • CaliaCalia
    I say Blue is more trying to bait them to play with him. He sees the two having fun and he wants in. But Naum and Kodi are so focused with each other, that they aren't paying attention to Blue. So his barking and "cheap shots" could be an attempt to change the focus on him and get some play time in. And if you watch, Blue seems more intent on getting Naum's attention and doesn't do anything to Kodi.

    In general, what kind of relationship does Blue have with Naum? What about with Kodi?
  • KevinKevin
    I think mostly he just wants attention from someone. He does keep checking back in with you--kind of a bully breed characteristic, right? "Am I okay? I'm trying to keep these hooligans in line, okay? Okay? Okay? Dad? Dad?"
    Who knows? It does kind of look like he's trying to bait them.
  • baantonbaanton
    I think that Blue is trying to enter the interaction, and Naum has agreed to be the 'subordinate" in this game so Blue would also be the aggressor towards Naum. I notice at one point Naum "licks the jowls" of Blue, usually to me a signal of inviting interaction. Since Blue knows you "manage" the play or interaction between these two CO's, and between Blue and Kodi, etc. he keeps checking with you to make sure his interaction and their interaction together is OK. I have seen Josephine behave in ways like this many, many time when there are three dogs or more. She is much more intense and unrelenting about it, as she does not want to be left out of any doggie play time. You have some well-trained animals!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    hmmm... That's a good point about the roll-playing and Naum being the "prey" while Kodi is the "predator", so that is why Blue targets Naum and not Kodi. Good point.

    Yes, checking in with "dad" is a mos def Bulldog/Mastiff move. It's very typical of Blue's style.
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    edited November 2010
    It looks like he is trying to engage the darker dog at the bottom since he starts to initiate with a small play bow to ensue chase at very beginning of clip. However, when that does not work I think he may get a little frustrated and maybe referee or prod to move play in another direction but without success. He may have taken note that you break apart the dogs when it gets too rough. Therefore, maybe Blue checks in to see if you will intervene (maybe to his benefit?). It seems he really wants to play or engage but is hesitant to fully get in the middle of it.

    Snf
  • sunyatasunyata
    I agree with Bev... It looks to me as though Blue really wants to have some play time, too and is trying to invite some interaction.

    As for the checking in with you, I think he knows that you usually facilitate the interaction he has with the CO's, so he wants to make sure that you are cool with him wanting to join in.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    edited November 2010
    It's interesting to watch. I guess I'm going with the enforcer thing too....it looks like he's trying to intervene in their play. Toby used to do this a lot when he was allowed with the other dogs (though he's a Shiba, so surely he wasn't trying enforce order!) I also wonder about wanting to play, but not quite being able to get in there? (Also true with Toby, who doesn't play well with anyone, but wants to play, and gets frustrated at seeing other dogs play, then starts with the same kind of barking, but not attempting real interaction).

    Is Kodi the lighter dog? For being a totally different breed, he and Oskar actually look and act quite similiarly. :)

    Anyway, interesting! And as always, watching/discussing your dogs give me something to think about in regards to my own, which I guess is why I find this forum so fun and valuable!

    shoot, meant to say sorry Zeta has gone on to another home--she is a great dog! But sounds like it might be a better fit for her....
  • jujeejujee
    Hmm, when I take Mika to the dog park I get this with other dogs who want to play with her. She usually only plays with one dog at a time, and most of the time its a dog around her size. Sometimes she gets really excited, wrestles and runs around and other dogs start wanting to play with her. However, she is too busy playing with another dog that the dogs watching or want to play with her get frustrated and start barking because they want attention.

    So, I'm thinking Blue wants to join in on the fun! But gets upset and frustrated that he doesn't get any wrestle time!
  • HeidiHeidi
    My interpretation was that Blue is excited by all the action and wants to participate. It seems like Kodi is ignoring him and Naum is acknowledging him, but not really playing back. Basically, I'd say Blue feels left out and he's trying to get in on the action, but it's not really working.
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Ok so after listening to the dog talk here's what my interpretation is:

    Blue: what now sucka, thats what happens when you mess with my peeps. What what, you want some more? oh hell nah, we're gonna throw down now.

    Blue see's Brad watching and saids" ah crap Dads watching......look Dad they're playing rough again, I'm gonna try to stop them. Ooooh you guys are in trouble!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    lol
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