Getting a 2nd dog, makes the 1st misbehave/regress?
I'm a bit at a loss here so bear with me.
Ichi is a very reactive dog (Thundershirt incoming). That being said, he has tolerated Kurenai's presence in our apartment. It was our hope that her playfulness might help bring him out of his shell a bit and tolerate a little bit of physical contact and remember what it's like being a puppy. However, he doesn't have much tolerance for her play...at all. Whether it be a little or a lot, it's not long before she gets excited enough to mount him, bite his back, bite his legs, bite his butt, etc. He used to find comfort on the couch where she couldn't get to him because of her smaller size, but all it took was 3 weeks and she could get on the couch with a running start. One week after that she could get on the couch from a standing position.
If she continued to chase him to initiate play, he'd run into his crate and she'd be right behind him. Ichi has a Titan HD 32" high crate so there's plenty of room for both of them to mix it up in there...assuming both dogs are willing.
Now, Ichi is looking for any place he can sit in the apartment that she can't get to him. Even when we have her tuckered out and passed out on the kitchen floor cooling off on the tile, he is still keeping a wary eye out for her. He hasn't lost his energy much from what I've seen, but he's lost his appetite (what little of it he had). I feed him in his crate now and late at night I can hear him periodically eating.
My question to those of you that added a 2nd dog to your first, did any of you ever experience this kind of non-standard behavior in your 1st dog? Any additional restlessness or wanderlust? As if the dog started "misbehaving" or being malcontent and acting out of the norm? We are about 6 weeks into when we first brought her to our home.
Thanks for listening.
Jesse
Ichi is a very reactive dog (Thundershirt incoming). That being said, he has tolerated Kurenai's presence in our apartment. It was our hope that her playfulness might help bring him out of his shell a bit and tolerate a little bit of physical contact and remember what it's like being a puppy. However, he doesn't have much tolerance for her play...at all. Whether it be a little or a lot, it's not long before she gets excited enough to mount him, bite his back, bite his legs, bite his butt, etc. He used to find comfort on the couch where she couldn't get to him because of her smaller size, but all it took was 3 weeks and she could get on the couch with a running start. One week after that she could get on the couch from a standing position.
If she continued to chase him to initiate play, he'd run into his crate and she'd be right behind him. Ichi has a Titan HD 32" high crate so there's plenty of room for both of them to mix it up in there...assuming both dogs are willing.
Now, Ichi is looking for any place he can sit in the apartment that she can't get to him. Even when we have her tuckered out and passed out on the kitchen floor cooling off on the tile, he is still keeping a wary eye out for her. He hasn't lost his energy much from what I've seen, but he's lost his appetite (what little of it he had). I feed him in his crate now and late at night I can hear him periodically eating.
My question to those of you that added a 2nd dog to your first, did any of you ever experience this kind of non-standard behavior in your 1st dog? Any additional restlessness or wanderlust? As if the dog started "misbehaving" or being malcontent and acting out of the norm? We are about 6 weeks into when we first brought her to our home.
Thanks for listening.
Jesse
Comments
Yep, pups are a pain in the butt and don't know limits. Your first dog should be allowed to have a break from the ill behaved little one. For example his own sleeping area that is strictly his. Make sure you put puppy away in a pen or crate and allow your older dog to have some comfortable resting/relaxation and one on one time with you. Rotating time and attention helps get over the hurdle. As your puppy develops and calms down with maturity your older dog may become more tolerant, but that won't be for 8 months or maybe longer. So in the mean time you should monitor and rotate play, training etc. Get your new pup out with some other larger breed pups so he can expend his energy and socialize with other age appropriate canines. Also attempt to wear out the pup with some training too at a decent center.
I hope Brad will pipe in.....I know that Shikoku drive and Shibas don't always match well but I am sure he has some further ideas as well.
Snf
Good luck, and I hope that you guys are able to work through this.
Koda didn't get anxious/upset that Mei had come into the home, but he got a bit depressed and for a minute did stop eating as much. He got a little too skinny. Koda's depression stemmed from two things: Mei's ability to completely take up all my time and her constantly teasing him and taking his things because she thinks that's hilarious. Mei didn't mean any harm, but there were times when it downright hurt my sensitive little boy's feelings.
I made sure to make alone time for just Koda and I. I kept to a really strict schedule on this. During the day, Mei needs a nap so I would put her in her crate for about an hour and a half and Koda and I would just have us time. This could be going to the park together, friend's houses, walks, or just sitting on the couch in my lap. Everyday from 12:30-2pm was our time. Then in the evening I would put Mei down to go to sleep at 9pm and Koda and I had our 2nd bit of alone time. The consistency of him knowing that he was going to have me just to himself perked him up. He would start wagging his tail anytime I told Mei that it was naptime or bedtime. He loved it that she was going to be in her crate. There were also two days a week that Koda would go to his program and Mei would be dropped off at my parent's house. This also helped because it maintained his schedule, and gave them some time apart.
As far as the Mei teasing him thing. Well, I just had to work on calming her down a bit. Koda didn't understand her teasing always. I think he took it personally and got his feelings hurt. I think he thought she was mad at him or just being a bully. I had to teach her what acceptable behavior is in our home. This took a little bit of time, but now Koda actually goes up and steals her bully sticks right from her mouth to get her to play with him.
There's no easy solution to this, but it sounds like first and foremost find some alone time for Ichi. He needs a break from the Shikoku madness. Is he attached to you more? Maybe you and your partner could split the dogs up for a bit during the day or evening and each take one?
I think that if a dog doesn't have a place where they know they will have peace, they will feel extremely anxious. There will be times when no one is bothering them, but it's important for them to have that safe haven that they can rely on. I think we can all empathize; we know that there are times when we're not going go be alone, we're not going to be resting or doing whatever we want, but we have times to ourselves that we look forward to and places in our home that are private. Imagine, for instance, being asked to babysit or going to work and not knowing if or when you'd ever be off duty. A set location is good, as is a set time. I would definitely make a rule that Ichi always has the right to be alone in his crate if he wants - no one's allowed to come in unless invited. Having a crate cover would probably help, too.
Thanks for all the supportive comments.
I have taken to giving them each their alone time with me during their walks. I actually do two separate walks in the morning and afternoon with them individually. In the evening, depending on my energy, I may walk each of them individually again or walk with my partner as he takes one and I take the other. I have to amend my earlier statement because Ichi is eating and finally had a bowel movement this morning. However, he is now much more slower and has less zeal and less deliberate about eating (even his Stella & Chewy's premade raw). Before he used to be competitive and made sure he ate something before Kurenai could get to it. I see now that the stress made him go opposite of where I thought he'd go. It's a fine balance to watch my reactive dog's behaviors because I have to make sure my own stress doesn't compound and add to his.
I have taken all your suggestions to heart. It looks like I will have to increase the measures by which I keep them both more separate than together for the time being to make sure my boy is adjusted (snail's pace slow). She is slowly learning her boundaries as I quickly come to Ichi's aid when she is being too much of a brat to him (ie biting his legs while on the couch). I will praise her for the physical play she does with other dogs but she has to know Ichi's personal limits. I am setting up puppy play dates with other dogs now that she's through with her 2nd round of shots so that she can unleash that puppy energy on other dogs. Maybe take her to the dog park.
My partner also suggested we bring Ichi's crate into our bedroom so that he sleeps physically away from her (as compared to sleeping in separate crates 8ft apart in the same room).
Again, I thank you all for the supportive comments and criticism.
Jesse
Also remember 3-4 months old is like the worst age! At least in my opinion. They are getting more and more energy but don't have all the shots to go out and about and work it all off.
Having written that, I agree with some of what has already been said, it sounds like Ichi may be very stressed by your Shikoku's presence.
Does your Shiba correct Kurenai? Does Kurenai respect the corrections?
When we added Ahi, Maui had a very hard time with it and it took a LOT of separation before they were able to exist together. We had to keep Ahi in her pen while chilling on the couch with Maui and Kaia, that seemed to help them have some "puppy-free time"... We do this with our dogs now too, we give the adults puppy-free play time after lunch (and the pups have nap time).
Can you keep Kurenai in a crate while you are in the room w/o her screaming at you? I know that was very hard with Ahi, and with Cho Cho. With Ahi we never crated her because of the crying/screaming and she grew to be a dog that is very hard to crate - when it came time for her to have surgery it was very hard for her to transition to crate life. With Cho Cho we have vowed not to make that same mistake and are enduring the screaming/chirping/crying while she is crated now so that we can crate her later. We never had this issue with Loa, Kaiju was difficult with it too tho.
Point is, crate the puppy and give your Shiba a break - a break with just you guys, chilling on the couch or whatever. That will help reduce some of the stress, I think.
As I've written before, mixing a Shiba and a Shikoku can be pretty horrible, especially if you have a very reactive Shiba (like Maui or Ichi) and a high-drive "I don't f#ck around" Shikoku (like Ahi). I know how bad it can suck.
Also, keep in mind, if it doesn't work I'm happy to take Kurenai off your hands. Love that pup!
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As a Shikoku owner with multiply animals, I believe you can make it work. What Heidi said was right on. Ichi needs a safe place-preferably a room, to call his own-where Kurenai can’t reach him. Our cats have a safe room and safe high ground. Management is key as well. It is important to understand that Kurenai will always have to much gusto for Ichi-no matter her age, and that you will have to intercept. Eventually, you should be able to just call her off with a simple command. This is how it is with my two laid back cats and Kagome. For the most part Inu has learned to leave them alone and even naps with them now. But every now and then he will give chase and I just give a command and he stops. My cats understand this, they know I will stop Inu from harassing them. They aren’t able to stickup for themselves, as Ichi can’t, so you must stickup for him. I think it will help Ichi if he knows you will prevent Kurenai from invading his boundaries. Crating Kurenai periodically and letting Ichi have the run off the house should help too. My cats are more relaxed and happy-go-lucky when Inu is crated. It should get better once Kurenai listens to your commands and Ichi knows he is/can be protected. Best wishes!
Btw, don't give Kurenai to Brad, I live closer so you can visit her more often
Jesse
To do this, you have to curb the shikoku enthusiasm. And you be as relentless as Kurenai is, that is, you teach her to stay/wait/time out (whatever you want to call it) and you make sure that she does it. Consistency is key and they learn to understand that you mean what you say. That way eventually when you say enough, lay down, she knows to just quit and give Ichi peace. Every new shikoku owner seems to go through this at first, whether they have cats or other dogs. Shikokus are tenacious little buggers. But if you are consistent with your insistence on obedience and giving the other animal some space, the shikoku will get quite easy to manage (eventually). (as my 2 shikoku lay sleeping on the floor right next to a cat who is sleeping).
I also would make sure that Ichi has his crate, Kurenai is NOT allowed in there. You might also even make the couch off limits to her and let Ichi go up on the couch only - that would be his safe zone. That is what we do with the cats. My 2 shikoku know very well that couches and beds are off limits, those places are the haven of the cats.
About two weeks into it, there was some slight tension, but no more then some extra-rough play on Wraith's part. In fact, I now have a tough time keeping them separated, which has been hard since Fate's surgery.
Good luck! Hopefully things will even out in time