Tahltan Bear Dog - revival?
I've been reading about the Tahltan Bear Dog, which is considered extinct, although some claim to be reviving it. It sounds like a really interesting breed that I'd be interested in if it were still around. Some are claiming to have pure TBDs and are selling them. While I think it's obvious that there aren't any pure TBDs left, it's possible that there are dogs left with TBDs in their ancestry. Failing that, one could conceivably "recreate" the breed from other breeds. The recreation would never be the original, more of an homage. Like a replica of a historic building.
And, of course, this isn't the first time this has been done. Lots of extinct or nearly extinct breeds have been recreated. Or breeds that have changed so much from the original that some have created a new breed to go back to the old type. The JA comes to mind, and the Olde English Bulldogge, Shiloh Shepherd, Native American Indian Dog, probably more.
So, what's the "right" way to recreate/revive a breed?
And, of course, this isn't the first time this has been done. Lots of extinct or nearly extinct breeds have been recreated. Or breeds that have changed so much from the original that some have created a new breed to go back to the old type. The JA comes to mind, and the Olde English Bulldogge, Shiloh Shepherd, Native American Indian Dog, probably more.
So, what's the "right" way to recreate/revive a breed?
Comments
As for the "right" way to recreate/revive a breed, I have no idea. I think it depends on if the breed is totally extinct or not.
If the breed is documented clearly enough in history then I think the best path would be to start with breeds most similar to the breed and select until you get a phenotype close enough to what you are shooting for. Once there you then try to standardize the breed and get to a point where the foundation stock is producing puppies with basic consistency...
I think achieving consistency in the progeny is the hardest part - look at the Caucasain Ovcharka, for example. The CO, like the CAO, is not really a breed, it's a land-race which is being standardized and pushed toward being a breed... yet still, the variations in phenotype is pretty shocking. It would be nice if the CO would produce as consistently as the TM, for example, but we are still 20+ years off from that happening. Breedclubs play a huge role in standardizing the progeny of a breed, which is why the TM got there so much faster than the CO... The TM has a huge and very vested breed club in the states - but even with that, the TM varies greatly from country to country. You never see TMs in America looking like those that sell for so much in China.
If the breed is not well documented, then you get into a situation like the Banndog, American Bulldog, "Pitbull", or Boerboel where breeders start to create a "type" that they feel best represents the breed... which can tend to be all over the place.
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Interesting...
eta: ah, I see there was an artists rendition on the first link. Ok, kind of what I imagined! *lol*
The idea of reviving the TBD has met with a lot of criticism, but it may be because those were claim to be breeding them are actually breeding mixed-breed dogs that only remotely look like the TBD. I don't know if they're working toward something better, but it really doesn't seem like they are. To do the job right, and really do it right, would take decades of work, I'm sure. I wonder if there's anyone who's really serious about it.
I don't know the history of the Shiloh Shepherd at all....I've only seen pics (ads for breeders) in the back of dog mags. Were they trying to recover a certain older type of GSD that had disappeared? Or just going for long hair, or what?
I think most of them breed for size, coat and softer temperaments.
If they do revive the TBD I really hope it doesn't turn out like the Klee thing.
Anyway - an interesting point about the TBD is that there isn't a lot of need for bear hunting dogs. There's a very limited group of people who hunt bears, and there are already dogs that do the job really well. Although, from what I've read, the TBD wasn't just used to hunt bears, but were all-purpose hunters, so I suppose they could be used more like a Jagdterrier or a Norbottenspets or something. But, like with any modern breed, most of them would surely be pets. So, I really don't think it's possible to get the TBD back exactly how it was, although you could breed a companion/hunting animal that paid tribute to the original.
One thing I wonder is how they'd replicate that tail. I don't know of any dog breeds with that kind of tail and I'm having a hard time thinking of dogs that even have that length of tail (without it being docked). It's short, but not bobbed, and if you mixed long-tailed dogs with bob-tailed dogs, I'm sure you'd just get half long-tailed dogs and half bob-tailed dogs rather than dogs with medium-length tails.
If that breeding bias was reversed, it can be possible to fix a shorter and shorter length tail.
Also, you can use a regular bobtail breed and breed to a normal tail. During the corgi-boxer bobtail experiment, 1/3 length bobtails were produced during the intermediate generations.
http://www.steynmere.com/ARTICLES1.html
Here are some breeds and why they would be incorporated:
Mixed breeds with claimed TBD ancestry - it's worth looking into. No one will be able to prove the heritage, but if the phenotype is similar, and people are claiming TBD ancestry, there may very well be some there and it's as good a place as any to start. There's also the advantage of using non-purebred dogs because the people producing them are going to be less likely to be offended by the idea of mixing breeds.
KBD - Apparently were crossed with TBD back in the day and the latest specimens of the TBD breed surely had KBD ancestry. They're similar in appearance and function, so they seem an obvious candidate. REL and other laika breeds could certainly be incorporated as well.
Schipperke - closer in size than the KBD, and there's potential to get the right tail length. Function isn't the same, but it's not outrageously out of line.
Black Norwegian Elkhound - similar function, and colour. From what I've read, the more less white on the dog, the better.
Basenji - TBDs are supposed to have a yodel, howly voice and not bark so much. Basenjis are also similar in size and function. They kind of have short tails, too.
Jamdthund - I found a picture of one with a tail the right length and read that this is a fault. They are also pretty close in phenotype and similar in function.
Other smaller spitz-type hunting breeds: Shiba, norbottenspets, finnish spitz, Norwegian lundehund.
I don't think you would have to incorporate all of these breeds. It would probably be easier to start with a foundation of some of them, and then mainly focus on breeding toward the right type with what you have, and occasional out-crosses. How many individuals does a breed need for there to be enough genetic diversity? I wonder. Also, it would probably be wise to have a name that reflects the fact that this isn't exactly the original. Maybe call them the New Tahltan Dog. That feels more honest to me and would appease the purists.
Another consideration: how the dog would fit into the modern world. Presumably, people would have to own these dogs. Most would be kept as pets, as is true of other hunting breeds. Their function as a working dog would be as a versatile hunting dog. Hardly anyone has any use for hunting bears, and the TBD actually hunted all sorts of animals.
Conceivably, you could also shoot for other functions, such as hearing assistance dogs. If you're honest about the fact that these are an homage to the original TBD made for the modern world, you could breed for various purposes and you aren't bound by a rigid set of desired characteristics. They could be SAR dogs, too, just as KBDs and some of these other breeds are.
My main criteria would be that they be healthy, robust, and none of this business about the bug eyes and the toy-dog temperament. Pocket pets, these ain't. The goal would be a lot of outdoorsy, working dog in a small package.
I think they did something similar with the Korean Sapsaree, finding their particular genetic markers, but after a few years, the founder/scientist expanded the gene pool to include more dogs which included more coat patterns.
Just as a bit of trivia, Korea has a “tailess” native dog. Barely preserved. I remember the very first news included an x-ray of the rear, and the dog was missing the tail as well as several bones beyond the hipbone. When outcrossed to Jindo-like dogs, they formed a bob-tail.
Here's a picture of one: