Is she a a Kai Ken?
Hi, I am new to the forum. As I explained when I registered, we rescued a dog not too long ago, and obviously has been puzzled as to her breed. Last weekend at our local dog park we saw a dog that could have been her sister/littermate, but for a few miniscule differences. The other dogs owner informed us we most likely/most assuredly have a Kai Ken, and, to his chagrin, our stray had more of the characteristic breed look than his certified purebred Kai Ken. Since that time, my husband and I have studied information available on the Web, via AKC and the kennels and breeders, viewed the YouTube videos from Japan, and even considering changing our dogs name from Josephine to something with a Japanese flair. Anyway, follow the trail below to my blog posting and pictures of Josephine, our found puppy. I would be most intrigued as to the opinions of this group who know the breed of their doggies. Is she a Kai Ken or not? How could I find out conclusively?
http://suzieqpublic.spaces.live.com/
Thanks, and take care.
Comments
Hi Baanton, welcome to the forum!
My wife and I are new Kai Ken owners, but have been studying the breed for a while. We studied all the pics of Josephine and we are very certain that she is more than likely a Kai Ken mix. If she is full Kai she has some oddities that make her a bit different from a Kai Ken, but they are very very small. I mean, as a pup she looks just like our Kai Ken pup!
- She has a spot on her tongue, our Kai has a spot as well.
- Her ears seem slightly large - but what is her age and size?
- She has lightish brown eyes, all the Kai Ken I have seen have very dark brown eyes - almost glassy looking.
- She has a boxy nose, which is reminiscent of a primitive male Kai, but a female Kai would probably have a softer, less boxy nose.
Well, that's my $0.02... She also resembles a Black Norwegian Elkhound , tho the size may be off. pic:
Thanks for your comments. Josephine now is about one year old we think. We found her at about 10-12 weeks, per the best estimate of 3 different vets who saw her in the first two months or so (one in the area where we found, one here in our community, and our brother-in-law who came to visit from out-of-state.) She has had one heat (surprise, surprise -- haven't had a female dog before), and we had her spayed about 6 weeks ago. She weighs just around 40 lbs. In the pic I put at the end of my post here, I guess she is around 4 months or so... Has changed somewhat in appearance by now (ears are more perky, etc.). Personality-wise she is extremely dominant. She wants to be out in front when in the off-leash park running and playing with other dogs, and even when walking on the leash. She is extremely social. There is nothing shy or reserved about this dog! But having said that, she is not at all aggressive. If her tail could wag off, it would have happened by now! She just seems to love people, other dogs, cats (we have three in the house), and just about any other living creature.
Josephine's tongue has several black marks which seemed to have gotten larger and more prominent as she grows. She appears to mostly black, but now and then we catch a glimpse of some brown or dark reddish color (light has to be just right). My husband took her to doggie class last night and the trainer noticed some brown on her (maybe more apparent in the flourescent lighting). Her tail is mostly up, and seems to be more erect and slightly curving over her back as she approaches adulthood.
There is dog breed DNA testing you your are really curious.
Here is one of the companies that offers it
DNA Testing
However I did notice that Kai Ken was not one of the breeds they list. They seem to only list AKC breeds.
Well, whatever breed she is (tho I think she is probably, at least, a Kai Ken mix) she is pretty!
Here is the question that will probably really answer the debate - where do you live (or where was she found)? If you live in Michigan or Ohio the odds of her being Kai or Kai mix go up greatly.
Thanks for all your comments and taking the time to look at my blog page. I'd say the mystery continues. Sorry for the long entry that follows. You can tell from my blog-page I like to use lots of words.
To recap the story of Josephine: While on a road trip last spring, my husband and I found Josephine in a southwestern state, in an extremely desolate area, literally by the side of the road when we pulled over to take a picture of a scenic rock formation. She was only about 10 lbs at the time, dehydrated, hungry and full of ticks (30-40, at least). We stopped at a vet as soon as we found one (in fact it was so desolate it took us more than a 2 hour drive to locate a vet). He said she was definitely not the type of dog that would have been bred and born around there (most of them are some sort of collie mix), that she was about 10-12 weeks old and he was not willing to take a guess at her breed(s) because she was not a type of dog he had seen before. Anyway we theorize her owners may have been on a road trip just as we were and she escaped, either unbeknownst to them, or perhaps she ran away after something and they couldn't find her. It would not make sense to think that if someone intentionally dumped her they would drive so far away from any cities and towns. Even as a puppy she could get up an incredible amount of speed. In fact, at our farm property my husband clocked her per the car speedometer at around 30 miles an hour on a country road (perhaps around 10 months of age at the time). I think that's an incredible speed for a relatively small dog, but don't know if it's characteristic of the Kai Ken. One of the You Tube videos made in Japan shows a Kai Ken running in the same manner she does when she opens it up full speed. Also at the doggy park she can always close in on, and keep up with boxers, spaniels, German Shepherds, labs, lab mixes and all variety of other large-breed long-legged and fast dogs even though she is only around 40 lbs. and very short-legged in comparison. She also has tremendous stamina. One time last fall she ran beside our bikes for six miles (maybe at 8-9 months of age). We planned to bike at a relatively slow speed with the intention of stopping as often asneeded, but we never had to stop except when she chased off after a couple partridge she scared up on the side of the bike trail.
I have heard about the AKC DNA tests, but have heard the Kai Ken is not an AKC-recognized breed. But I will definitely take a look at pictures of the DUTCH SHEPERD KAI, and some more of the Lab mixes. Here in the upper midwest there are so many Labs and Lab mixes that most folks guess that must be part of her breed. I'm a bit skeptical, as most of them end up with much larger paws. Josephine has feet as dainty as Cinderella (maybe that would have been a good name for her!) We had another dog (same deal, found him abandoned, dehydrated and full of parasites when a 5 lb. - 7 weeks old puppy). He was a Lab mix (also most likely Husky, Rottweiler, and possibly a bit of German shepherd). She has nice personality traits like him, but definitely is much different in appearance and behaviour. Interesting side note: We found Josephine just nine days after our other dog, Joe, died of cancer at about 12 years of age. My husband says Joe may have had "a paw" in our discovery of Josephine!
www.sevenpineskennel.com
www.dutchshepherdrescue.org
www.vonfalconer.com
kwyld: Thanks for the website references. None of the dogs pictured on those sites are even close to resembling our dog (or for that matter, the Kai Ken or the various other dogs that are the subject of this forum). Appreciate all the attention though. It may help us solve the mystery of Josephine's breed(s). Take care and peace,
I read an article about the DNA testing for dogs, and it was pretty cool how many different breeds were in some of the dogs backgrounds...like a dog that looked like a corgi/beagle was actually a basset hound/australian shepherd/lab cross...sometimes none of the breeds guessed were in the DNA. It's amazing how features from different breeds of dogs can combine to make a dog that looks like a breed it doesn't have in it's DNA.
And, as can be seen by the many posts - this forum is not restricted to Japanese dogs - we discuss many other breeds...actually there is a malinois, boxer, and pit that are very frequent topics of discussion.
grandemu and others: Thanks so much for your feedback -its been wonderful and fun to review. Did not mean to sound disrespectful in my last post, but rather was just amazed at the variety of dogs (the Dutch Shepherd didn't seem anywhere near the Japanese pics I've been looking at the past week). (I think my comments came off as harsh when I didn't intend that.) Wow - there are such an amazing number of dog and mixed breeds (and dog lovers!) out there. We obviously have fallen in love with Josephine, as much as we did our prior dog, Joe. In fact, she came along just in time to help move us along in a profound greiving process after his death. Anyway, I think they are most likely that much more precious because in both cases we (should say more directly, my husband) recognized how fragile their lives were if someone did not step forward and help them at that moment. The breed is obviously not so much concern to us, as it is a wonderful curiousity. I have to say that here in the upper midwest, we have gotten more questions from dog owners and non-dog owners who encounter Joshephine as to her breed in the past 8-10 months than we got in the entire 12+ years we had Joe. So it seems fair to say that something in her physical appearance and behaviour is exotic compared to the fullbreeds and mixes usually seen in these parts. I've thought of the (AKC-sanctioned) DNA test, but have heard it is limited to 75 or so breeds (and as mentioned in an earlier post does not include the exotic, or more rare breeds such as the Japanese breeds). Maybe will try it sometime, just for fun, though, especially in light of your last post.
In the meantime, we are having fun with Josephine. My husband is experiencing some success in getting her to heel, finally, after he and Josephine attended doggy class #1. We know she is a quick learner, not so sure about me and hubby, though. That's the downfall of that "rescued puppy" aspect for us. I think we have trouble being as firm and consistent as we need to. And we love to give her freedom from the leash as much as possible, when in the right surroundings. He and I both have that rural/farm upbringing in our background. When I was growing up on the farm, we always had at least one dog but I don't recall seeing a dog on a leash on our property. Takes some getting used to for everyone to change their ways, at least when we are in the city. Anyway, I always imagine that is confusing to the doggie who gets to run free some of the time, and then is constrained at others.
Thanks again, everyone, and sorry for the ample words!