can puppies exhibit guard/watchdog abilities?

edited December 2011 in Behavior & Training
Toki and I went on our morning walk in our apartment complex and a cleaning lady pulled up next to our garage. To my surprise, he wanted to investigate, and I was pleased so we went. When she got out, he changed his mind and did a wide circle around her van. She had all her janitorial stuff in hand and I thought it would be nice for him to see this for his socialization, so we sat down by the breezeway where our downstairs door is. Well, he didn't like her, but this was expected.

But then, she walked to our neighbors door, which is RIGHT by our door, so it looked like she was going to our door. Toki did NOT like this; he barked....and growled! I was surprised. I've seen him bark at trash bags and BBQ pitts, but NEVER at people, much less seriously growl at anything. Then she went inside "our" door, and he did not like this either.

With me leading the way, he hesitantly walked to our door. He went up the stairs very cautiously, i could tell by the way he walked and the way he looked around the corner of the stairs, like he was looking for her. He walked around our apartment with focus and intent, but no avail to finding her, of course.


To revisit the basics, are Akita's "guard" dogs or "watch" dogs?
Can puppies exhibit these qualities this young? (i did not think they could, that is why I am raising the question. Usually he acts happy or scared to see strangers, never, never angry)
Or, is this him not having enough socialization? (I understand he needs a LOT of it, which we are always working on as much as we are able, given that he hasn't had all his shots yet)

Thanks!!!!

Comments

  • Reading your post, I did not feel that he was angry. I feel that he was making his presence known to the cleaning lady. While, at times our breed shows signs of being protective a guard dog they are not. They will bark, growl, pace around, do akita speak, etc etc but those actions is completely on their terms. For example, Kaede has the distinction of being chased by a group of cows. Simply because, she barked paced, approached a calf. At the last picnic, we had a member who tied their JA up to a extra-long lead to a tree. I did not pay very good attention to this and their dog charged us. K did get between myself and the other JA but I wouldn't depend on this at a critical moment.

    So to respond to the basics -
    Does a JA make a good guard dog.... no Does a AA make a better guard dog than a JA... yes Does a JA make a good watch dog... maybe (Mine seem very aware of who is around the house or coming to the door)

    #2, I would assume so. My guess is that is that as they age everything tends to mellow out. Kaede hated females as a puppy. From year 1 on, she didn't really care anymore.

    #3 not really. You main goal with raising your JA, is to make sure that he does not have the upper hand. While you need to be a loving master... you are still the master. Case in point... when K and I moved in with my fiance, K developed a nasty little issue. Regardless of how many times, I let her go outside or had her potty on a walk, when I would leave the house.... K would walk right up to my fiance and poop. Not only poop but look right at my fiance. Finally, I convinced my fiance to say NO!!, in a loud deep tone, right as K started to get into position. End result no spite-pooping. When K would potty outside she would praise her.
  • edited December 2011
    To revisit the basics, are Akita's "guard" dogs or "watch" dogs?
    >> They are neither. Akita Inu are hunting dogs. Some hunting dogs, like most of the nihonken, will "alert" bark at "strange" things. What they perceive as strange will depend on the individual dog's socialization and suspicion level.

    Generally, of the Akita Inu I have owned, I found the breed to be a mildly suspicious breed, which is why they require more socialization that the average dog.

    Can puppies exhibit these qualities this young?
    >> Yes, puppies will show suspicion at a very young age. I have seen it in our Caucasian Mountain Dog (a true guardian breed) puppies as early as 4 weeks of age.

    Or, is this him not having enough socialization?
    >> I would take this as a sign that he will need continuous and ongoing socialization. The purpose of the socialization should be aimed at reducing his suspicion and helping him understand what is "normal" and what is not... A cleaning lady, BBQ Pitt, and a trash bag are all normal non-threatening things. If he acts suspicious toward those items, it's your job to show him that those things are not threatening. Do this by feeding him around the item - pair the item with a good thing (like a treat).

    The very best guard dogs and protection dogs (or any dog) are well socialized. The socialization will help the dog, guardian or not, understand what things in the world are real threats.

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  • Much better way to explain that. I tend to ramble.
  • I think we cross-posted.
  • I only learned the difference between watch dogs/guard dogs on this forum, but I find the whole topic interesting, as I did the behavior of my young AA pup, when he started differentiating between what he thought was normal and what he thought was suspicious. I suspect that AAs are more suspicious than JAs, too, and we saw some of this behavior with Oskar when he was 5 months old. I also had some trouble sorting it out at first, because I wondered if it was the second fear period and not enough socialization. In our case it was a little, as he had developed a habit of barking at people on walks, which I had to deal with.

    But the suspicion was actually a different thing, and was much like what you describe with Toki--it was clear Oskar did see certain things a threat, mostly tied to "guarding" me or our house. He would get in between me and what he percieved to be threats (other barking dogs mostly, or once the UPS man) much in the way Sean described Kaeda doing above.

    the interesting thing for me about this comparing the AA behavior to the GSD I had. GSDs of course, make good watch dogs and can be trained to be guard dogs. Mine was not, though he was typical of a GSD in his "watch dog" behavior in that he barked. A lot. At anything different. He didn't seem to have much judgement though: it was like, oh, something different! A plastic bag! Bark, bark, bark! But he would not, say, do anything at all when someone came in the yard, except for go find his ball! I think he could have been taught to schutzhund or something, but he was not.

    My AA is totally different. He's not a great watch dog because he doesn't bark that much (though recently, he's decided the neighbor's flashing Christmas lights are suspicious, so he's started barking at that, annoyingly!). he does "watch" though. All the time. And if he sees something he doesn't like (almost always the UPS man in our case), then he waits til the "threat" is in range, then charges, sometimes without barking at all, which kind of startles people as you can imagine. He's done this since he was about 5 months old. I see that has more hunting behavior (though I could be wrong) in that it seems to me it's almost a kind of modified stalking behavior.

    He has shown more typical "watch dog" (ie. alarm barking) after he matured (well, he's kind of mature--at 1.5 years he's also still pretty puppyish in some ways). And I noted a month or so ago that he's started to add a bark to the charge, which he didn't do until recently, but he really learns from watching other dogs, and the Shibas bark like crazy when someone is near the fence, so I suspect he picked that up from them.

    As a deterrent, though, regardless of whether he barks or not, he's impressive simply because of his sheer enormity! But that's people's perceptions, rather than much innate behavior in him.
  • Thanks for the feedback! really helpful stories from all three of yall. I do agree that Toki needs more socialization, and i think this incident certainly means he needs a lot more of it too. I didn't really think about Akitas being a hunting dog attributing to the barking/growling at a suspicious thing, and it makes me think differently. I've found myself thinking about this last night when we went to a strip mall and how he perceived all the people. Makes me think about how he sees the world, as I try to always put myself in his shoes. I think it helps me communicate with him better. I just can't wait for the day when he sees his first bobcat at River Legacy, lol!

    Being a new puppy and NK owner, I've found myself questioning old wisdom a lot lately, which was part of the reason why I was so surprised that he exhibited these traits so young. I guess i just expected him to be a puppy and when he got older, his "akitaness", for a lack of a better word, would kick in.

    Gotta say, on the flip side, I was kinda proud of him, but I didn't let him know this ;)
    I didn't praise him. And really, I didn't know what to do in the situation, so I just held the leash and let things play out, keeping a close eye on him. I don't think that you can take the guard/watch dog out of a dog, but you can certainly expose him to many situations so he will be confident and understand what is suspicious and what isn't, and I think that is what I need to keep doing :)
  • I didn't really think about Akitas being a hunting dog attributing to the barking/growling at a suspicious thing, and it makes me think differently. I've found myself thinking about this last night when we went to a strip mall and how he perceived all the people.
    >> Here is a rough guideline on barking/growling...

    Deep Growl/Bark = Warning, suspicious, discomfort.

    High-pitched Bark = Alert, typically predatory.

    Barks increasing in frequency and pitch = Stress and fear!!!
    (This is the bark you will hear from a dog who is not comfortable in a situation and is very close to "tipping" (into a fight or a flight patter). This bark can come after either of the other barks listed above.)

    I didn't praise him. And really, I didn't know what to do in the situation, so I just held the leash and let things play out, keeping a close eye on him.
    >> Yea, don't praise him. I would suggest ignoring him, maybe casually redirecting him and walking away. Don't make a big thing out of it (don't tighten the leash, for example). The bigger of a deal you make it, the bigger of a deal it is for him and the more likely he will repeat the behavior.

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