maybe stupid, but.............
I was wondering. There is a lot of talk on the internet that Japanese breeds aren't hardly used for their original purpose. Of course any person decides themselves what to do with his/her dog, but why don't people who still work ( I mean any kind of work) with a Japanese dog start a some kind of worldwide club to preserve this? ( that doesn't mean I want to start a Tosa dogfight competion) For instance, Gen is one of the few that still hunts. Maybe in a few years Gen is the only person that still hunts with the dogs. Maybe it sounds stupid to members of this board, and I don't want to start a big commotion, but aren't we drifting away to much from the breed? I mean, we call a few breeds a hunting breed.............but are they still?
Comments
If people are worried about certain breeds such as the Shikoku eventually dying out isn't it better to breed the dogs to make better more biddable pets? I know it isn't a popular opinion especially in Japan but if NK only go to people who hunt I am sure none of the breeds would last very long.
A lot fewer people hunt now than when these breeds developed, but that is true for all hunting breeds. (I wonder of all the jillions of retrievers/spaniels/poodles out there, what % work and what % of those working hunt? is it proportional to the number of medium-size NK and the % of those that work? and do their fanciers get morose about the lack of actual hunting golden retrievers?) There are lots of choices if you hunt- some people hunt with rifles and scopes, some hunt with bows or primitive firearms, just because they like to. I think with all the choice of dog breeds out there, hunting with NK is a choice for how you prefer to enjoy the hunt, as well as your feelings about tradition. (ie. I have shot with the blackpowder guys and they are a breed apart- they are so laid back, so process-oriented, storytelling guys, knowledgeable history guys. Its a niche thing, and hunting with NK seems also to be a niche thing. )
If we want to see more hunting NK, then we must preserve a hunting tradition among the people (also a shrinking pool, but I will note that women are a fast-growing segment!
BUT- I think what you said that is key is "any kind of work." I think this Forum membership believes in working our dogs, and encourages & enables each other. I think every time we celebrate our dogs' activities, it inspires others. I hope that by posting about the hiking adventures I have with my kai, or how she likes to catch frisbees, that others will think "I want to do that- and a kai can hike! I'll train for that with my puppy, too!" Our motto is "Kai CAN!" I love to see Lindsay's shibas at flyball and coursing, Brad's dogs working, Tyson and Taro hunting, and on and on. It doesnt have to be hunting boar to be relevant and preservable.
As a matter of attitude, I say lets not bemoan that all NK dont work, or see it (fewer working dogs) as a breeding problem, but set an example by being the people who get their dogs out there doing stuff, train them well, and not settling for an automatic "this breed can;t be let off leash/doesnt hunt as well as a X/is aloof, is stubborn, etc." and encourage others around us. Its a human culture thing- what do we DO that we can involve our dogs in? Most of us dont hunt anymore, be we can do other things that require an athletic dog, and I think that's okay!
The strange thing to me is that I find my NK to be far more enjoyable around the house than my lab. In my experience, the NK are much better dual-purpose hunting/companion dogs than the western breeds, making them more appropriate for the casual hunter. So I don't really get it.
http://yokohamaatsumi.the-ninja.jp/page005.html
When I see Saya run in the woods, brush and field I'm amazed with her speed and agility. I don't hunt with her though we just enjoy the country and walk in the trails and stuff she's gone after a rabbit in the brambles and she came back just fine with not a scratch from the brambles..
I like play with her I let her chase a squirrel pelt and thrown it a lot and she's chased it and retrieved it to me. It's all for fun though.
I'd be afraid how fast and agile she would've been if her spine wasn't injured.. She is fast for dog like her.
Nice post Chrystal.
Shigeru hunts with his NK and maybe he can elaborate on if Japanese hunters still mainly use Nihon ken to hunt or use other hunting breeds..
I don't know how many outside of Japan use their dogs to hunt..
There's been threads on this in past, but still nice to talk on.
The thing is urban societies seem to romanticized "primitive" breeds; but instead of getting a more suitable breed which conforms to their societal laws, like a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog or a Saarlooswolfhond instead, they struggle like hell with the dogs they covets. The guardians of hunting spitzes believe it amounts to animal cruelty not to allow a dog to explore its natural instinct, which is hard for owners to accomplish outside of East and North Europe. For this reason, they are very reluctant to export to non-hunting homes in North America as well since there is no guarantee their dogs will be able to express their personality without modifications such as de-barking. It is their belief, it is better for a breed to go extinct than it is to be useless.
It seems the Nihons really have a lot to offer for limited land space. It is an efficient breed in more than one capacity. However those steeped in tradition of the hunt here in the U.S. have no idea what to make of these breeds. You will see this in the show ring as well as in training.
I'd say in America we have a lot of die hard hunters with a very distinct historical English/Colonial view point about the hunt and what a dog should actually be, that is a big cultural hurdle to overcome.
In the future you may see two different types of hunters/hunting styles and or training styles, possibly with some over lap. Interesting food for thought when training or considering methods for hunt tests etc with Nihons. It is a brave new world that we all are tapping into with the Japanese breeds. How we branch out with workable dogs will be interesting.
Snf
There's great points here (esp. Chrys--Kai can!), but personally, I don't think it is doing a disservice to the breed if they aren't doing what they were originally bred for. To me, thinking about the breed's historic uses is more useful in terms of me thinking of what kind of activities they might enjoy, and then doing that with them.
My NK hunting breeds DO hunt. It's just I don't. But all my dogs hunt as much as they want in my rather large wooded yard. They have not lost their hunting instincts--it's just modified to how they live. Now they fulfill something of the role a terrier might: they kill the rodents we don't want around here, and they do a very good job of it. (Well, could be a little better--my husband found a rat's nest in the engine compartment of his GTO a few weeks ago). All three of them (two Shibas and one AA) can and do catch and kill critters around here, from mice and rats to rabbits to squirrels to birds and snakes. I love watching them in action, and to me, it's part of their "primitive" qualities that I love--they are like wild dogs sometimes out there, stalking and catching things. (The Shibas are WAY better hunters than the AA, by the way. It probably has a lot to do with size, agility, and speed. he's interested, and loves playing games that involve chasing and pouncing, but he's just not as fast as the Shibas.) I imagine my Kai will very much enjoy this too.
Anyway, I would say there are plenty of ways for a dog to "work" and to engage its predatory instincts, without necessarily hunting with humans. If people do want to hunt with their dogs, that's super cool, and I applaud them, but there are plenty of other ways to work with them too, and even though I don't right now do any true dog work, my dogs still are actively "hunting."
That being said, I don't think it is a disservice to a breed to use them for something other than what they were bred for either. BUT, to intentionally breed them away from a type and temperament suitable for what they were originally bred for at the expense of maintaining *the availability* of the original type and temperament is a bad thing.
I'm interested in reading people's responses, but I don't really care if dogs do their original work or not. To me, it does not take away from the breed to have them not hunting anymore.
I'm guessing the other NK will either morph into that as far as purpose breeding (companion pet) or die out to be honest, since for most working breeds these days, that seems to be the inevitable outcome with modernization and a "manageable" companion seems to be most important to people.
I hope Kai will always hunt. As long as there is Kai working in the mountains, I feel they deserve to be called a hunting breed. I hope my own Kai can contribute to this
I agree a lot of huskies and hounds end up in shelters due to not being in right homes which is sad.
Mom friend at work has a Siberian husky her husband wanted her despite his wife telling him he needs to research before getting her to be sure he's ready for the breed. She knew they're lots of work he coarse didn't listen got her anyways when she was causing issues he wanted her gone luckily his wife wanted to see if she could work things out so it worked out in the end and dog still has home and is happy.
Well for while they had a lot o issues and she asked my mom to ask me for help. I asked what was training and if she got any exercise. She said no so I told mom to tell her they need to exercise, walks, play ball, training and mental stimulation games. She did that and bad behavior went away pretty quick.
This family lives in country so they have pretty decent size yard coarse a big yard no replacement for a good walk, training and mental stimulation!
Sad so many dog owners do no research before getting a breed they think they want. Very impulsive people.