-cdenney: I will have to see how today goes, she still isn't letting me touch her.
It takes time. She'll come around. Is she still taking treats from you? Try to see if she'll sit, come, and lay down for you. Even though ChoCho was shy and stressed, when I whipped out treats she couldn't help herself. It'll give her something else to focus on.
@hinata23 If I'm sitting down she will gum them from my hand. Standing in my room we circle each other unless im not paying attention to her like doing makeup and hair this am where she kept trying to be half in the bathroom with me or touched the back of my leg but scattered if I showed her attention. During our walks if I can see she is starting to lose her grip on being calm I hold out a piece of treat she won't take from me there but will sniff it wait til I drop eat it off the ground and then move on so it just depends. Can you suggest other focuses? Today getting her leash off it accidentally re clipped shut and she was already nervous so she whipped her head around and toothed my thumb, no pressure, not bite, no vocal with it just like Hey! oh that didn't hurt never mind.
@sunyata thanks! She was passed out cold from 11 on, understandably
@ cdenny: It sounds like standing humans make her nervous. When giving treats you may want to crouch down and look away. Outside roll them to her or in odd angle so she has to move, engaging a different part of her brain. Tossing under your leg to her or , away from her and you, or back turned, anything to get her to move and not focus on you or you looking directly at her for now. About the leash the noise of the snap shutting can be a trigger a startle so work on that too so she acclimates to its sound in the new surroundings inside. Hold the leash, snap the snap and toss a cookie. If this stresses her too much skip it just do it softly before a walk.
Experiment with different goods/food stuffs or even use her kibble. I would also work on the treats and using various ways to get her to engage them in various locations, but not necessarily from your hand. I would hide some food either kibble or the treat bits themselves around your room first. It will help her explore yet redirect her brain a bit. Use a box or two (really short/shallow ones) and put some kibble in it and then move it around from place the place in the course of a day if she is comfortable with that. You may want to pair that with your scent, old sock or a pieces of blanket or toy if she was shipped with one.
Give it time and work the treats to your advantage, given she takes them sometimes is a start. Pretend not to pay attention by learning to look out of the corner of your eye facing straight ahead even when crouching to get an idea where she is on the scale. All of this behavior should come around after acclimation, she is just really spooked at this point since nothing is familiar sight, smell, or other dog topped with mental exhaustion so she is in preservation mode. You are at bit of disadvantage at the moment....keeping up with the food angle is probably the best bet with plenty of space for her to personally feel safe.
@cdenney If it makes you feel better, ChoCho rarely took treats from me while on walks. She would take it and spit it out, as if say "You think I can be bribed with food?! Take that!" lol You're doing great! You've kept yourself more calm than I was, that's for sure!
The fact that she is eating the treats at all is a sign that she is not over her threshold, which is very good. Sachi was always very sensitive to pressure. So leaning over her to hand her a treat can be too much pressure for her.
On the walks I would focus on the walk, and not on bonding. At home, where the environment is less stressful for her, I would focus on bonding with her. Sitting by her, not making direct eye contact, but just in her general area so she can check you out.
I want to write more but I'm just too sick to put my thoughts together... (
Thanks again. In an effort not to stress her out I switched the crates (wouldnt go near the airline one) and she was willing to slowly work her way in there for food bit at her best had one foot out. So rather than nudge her inside and shut the door I just left her to free roam my bedroom minus anything that could hurt her. I'm heading home now so we will see what she has been up to.
It will all fall into place. You're doing great -she just sounds like she is super freaked out but like Brad said- she is eating the treats/kibble and that is a great sign Good luck!
These are some never-before-seen videos of ChoCho's early days with us--so you can somewhat see her progress during those first few days. She was scared of being in the kitchen, backyard, living room... pretty much everywhere except our room!
We picked up ChoCho on March 12.
3/13/12 (24 hours with us)
3/16/12 (4 days)
-We were trying to get her comfortable in the kitchen...
-This is mild pacing. She usually looked like a wild animal running back and forth. At least here she was looking around.
The only thing that distracted ChoCho from her stress was going on LONG walks. I took her on 1+hr walks in the morning and another one at night. When she was extra stressed I would take her on 3 walks a day... My calves got pretty toned from all the walking up hill!
Brad recommended walks for ChoCho so that she can get a better sense of her surroundings... but if walks are overwhelming for Sachi, then we'll have to figure something else out.
@hinata23 those help, well at least relieve some of my anxiety. The room survived, no accidents or damage, I can tell she slept in her dog bed but nothing else obvious. I tried taking her for a walk as soon as I got home but with everyone coming home from work and higher traffic she was tail tucked and low to the ground. Took her into the backyard (tiny) was inquisitive and did her business. Met my landlords pup through a mesh gate and ignored him. It felt like we were starting over with her taking food from me I had to trail her closer for awhile then she will take.
Thanks a bunch for sharing those videos @Hinata23 ! I need to make sure my hubby sees them (he still sometimes feels bad that Ritsu and him couldn't get on a level playing field. Time time and more time with the older dogs! @cdenney Keep your chin up, sounds like you've got plenty of love and understanding for her!!!
@CarabooA It took us a month (to the day actually) to get ChoCho to play with us. I'm not joking... a MONTH. I was so happy that I teared up a bit lol. She just needed time.
@cdenney There will be a lot of starting over. Some dogs have problems generalizing (ChoCho was like this). They might be ok with you in your room, but not in the kitchen. They might take a treat in their crate, but not outside of it. ChoCho was fine with Jeff in our room, but any where else she was terrified of him. It depressed him so much that he spent hours with her in the room, scratching, petting, and hand feeding her, and when she stepped out of the room she was scared to death of him. It took about 3 weeks and lots of love for her to like him every where.
Sometimes we would work hard on one thing and something or someone would scare her and it all went to pot. Patience, patience, and more patience.
Wow! Awesome that she just slept while you were gone! What a good girl!
@hinata23 well we figured out she likes to hide behind me. She after a second later walk is all over me with her nose for treats but growls like a cat and gets all wide eyed if I lift a hand to pet her so haven't touched her except by accident and she freaked. My landlords five month old puppy managed to bust open my door right after their walk, during our nap time,thankfully the front door was shut but Sachi just ignored the pup checked out the hallway whined at my living room and started heading up stairs until I went to go up with her then she did the let's hide directly behind me for the next 20 min. Post door incident when leaving for dinner she whined at the door, growled/grumbled (note sure which) at the door when I returned with one of my roomies and gave the smallest tail wave for a split second when I came in. She's giving me whiplash with her body signals.
@cdenney - with the petting: I'm curious if she reacts differently to the areas you are trying to pet? For example with all new people Mirra insists that they are only allowed to touch her chest... It's her "safe" spot - I assume because she can see all that they are doing so feels more secure that way. If they go for anywhere above eye level she'll duck away and become insecure with them again. Just curious! )
@Hinata23 - I'm so glad that ChoCho has you! I think all the dogs have ended up where they should be! And with Jason's crazy graveyard schedule, I don't know how long (!) it would have taken Ritsu to be ok with him, poor guy! I'm super glad that he's doing so well where he is now! It all works out for the best when we have the dogs best interest in mind!!!
@Hinata23 First I'm so happy that you are active on the forum right now. I know how emotionally difficult it was with you and ChoCho at first. I'm just so thankful that your experience can help others who are going through the same type of situation.
Secondly, I always say this but I have never met a dog who had an instantanious connection with their owner. We may think they do because they tolerate our cuddling our annoying bugging them, but they don't. The honest truth is your dog who just came to you has no idea who you are, what you're doing, and they don't like you but may see you as a resource for them. That sounds harsh, but it's really the truth. I can't tell you how many people have come to me depressed because their new puppy doesn't have a connection with them like Koda does with me. But guess what, Koda had no flippin' clue who I was when I got him. He mostly just kept to himself.
The thing is, you have gotten an older puppy. Koda was only 9 weeks old, so he was still emotionally dependent on others. Sachi can hold her own, so she's going to be more offstanding than a playful puppy. I think that you have gotten some wonderful advice about walking, not thinking too much about her growling (both my females growl at me by the way to just talk to me), and being patient and not pushing her. In two months, you are going to look back at this and see it as such a distant past because Sachi will bond with you. She will adore you....I'm sure of it.
I'm really glad that you are reaching out and seeking community for support. This forum helps so much when we are going through it with our pups.
@tjbart17 Thanks. I hope our experience with ChoCho can be helpful. I just know that I needed every bit of advice I could get, and I wish I had come to the forum for help during that time instead of waiting until the storm had passed lol
@CarabooA Aw, thanks! It means a lot to me that people think we're the right family for ChoCho
@cdenney With her growling at you, she might still not recognize the sound of you... if that makes any sense. She might have thought you were someone else coming into your room and growled out of insecurity. It also doesn't help that you were coming up with another person. When Jeff would come into our room sometimes ChoCho would growl and try to hide. It wasn't until he got down on his knees and sweet talked to her that she realized it was him and calmed down. The wag is nice EDIT: ChoCho doesn't wag her tail out of happiness or excitement... only when she's playing and sees a wild animal while on walks... so we never had that sign to help us out. And it didn't help that she took about a month to lift her tail for most of the day (she always had it down).
We were living in the basement of Jeff's parent's house when we got ChoCho and she would freak out when they would come home or downstairs. I made sure to crate her when she started to get worked up so that she would feel secure in her safe place. Don't worry about her not letting you pet her. When I first met Sachi she was really shy and barely got close to us. She would sneak behind us to steal a sniff every once in a while and this was all while she was at Brad's-- where she's the most comfortable. I can't imagine her now.
It's a slow process, but in the end the bond you'll have with her will be that much deeper. That's how these dogs roll. They're not about superficial relationships. Hang in there
I am proud of how grown- up our Forum has become, with so many of us bringing experiences to the table to help others, different members leading the solutions and support as fits what they know and have learned. Good job, Cynthia!!! and Good work with Sachi, cdenny! We're here for you!
@wrylybrindle this forum truly has been great, especially when I nitpick the details. I couldn't do it with out yall.
Finally a small win! So Stacey rightly suggested leash her and keep it on. And I did until the fourth walk yesterday where the treats I'd been giving her gave her farts of death and made her poop smell... Well it burns and she got alittle on the leash. I took the leash off her and that set us back. In trying to get another on she went into total panic so no pressure stopped everything. This am she woke me up wanting out and was not interested in being near the leash. After starting over with approach me while sitting, taking treats from my hand, I held out the leash, when she sniffed she got a treat and this continued for awhile I could stretch out the leash, she would nuzzle and stretch out for the treat so I could just clip it on, everyone is happy! Will try this method to pet her later.
@cdenney: I don't know which treats you may be using, but given her stress level her tummy and bowels may be a little off kilter....not uncommon with any dog to have stress poos, gas and or digestion upset as part of adjustment. It's only been 24 to 48 hrs so it's not out of the norm to see the symptoms of it. : /
Good method in getting her leash adjusted. About leash(s), it may be helpful to have a slip lead that can be easily loop around her head without touching/clipping to allow for maneuvering and then once on, you can trade/clip to another more secure leash with snap bolt for walking her. I would not use the slip lead to walk her though, but use it to move her around directionally inside. We use british slip leads for shelter dogs and dogs that need moved from run to run that don't like touching of their heads or spook with direct contact.
You could always use the back end of a leash and pull it though to make a loose loop and have a second leash on had to clip to the collar once you have her close enough to handle. Just make sure you do not apply pressure if she backs up.....Go with it pretty much like you have been doing so there isn't stress.
@staticnfuzz when I volunteered with FOHA we used slip leads, mine is still in the back of my car. At this point she always keeps the lead on, there's no harm to her in it.
It's just really smelly otherwise solid so stress is there but its not the stress poos I don't believe
Sounds like you have all bases covered. It's so hard to tell where anyone is on the plane of things from just text, hence all the details. I don't think having a leash on will cause harm...just thought maybe there was difficulty switching it out or snapping to collar. It's good you have sl on hand as a just in case so that's helpful. From all indications it will be smoother from here on out.
@cdenney ... I don't know... ChoCho had some killer smelling gas when we first got her. We switched her from chicken to fish kibble and she got better, but that was a month after having her. She also had loose greenish stool... that thing was deadly! Could be the treats that she's not use to having... could be stress. Could be both! Switch around stuff and see if you can figure it out. Upset tummies can put pooches in a weird mood.
Thanks guys! Getting her and doing all of this is totally worth it.
@hinata23 I kept her food to the exact same she had.at brad and jens but the "blue" bits turkey treats I think are the cause I have EVO treats I'm trying next. I keep thinking I'm not feeding enough, she inhaled a bully stick(my old dog self monitored) but with the treats she has to be over her needs and that may affect? We just did an 1.5 hr walk so we will see how she does with the petting when more tired later.
Comments
-cdenney: I will have to see how today goes, she still isn't letting me touch her.
It takes time. She'll come around. Is she still taking treats from you? Try to see if she'll sit, come, and lay down for you. Even though ChoCho was shy and stressed, when I whipped out treats she couldn't help herself. It'll give her something else to focus on.
Glad she made it safe and sound. It will take her a bit to get adjusted to everything, but it sounds like you have it all under control. Congrats!
@sunyata thanks! She was passed out cold from 11 on, understandably
Experiment with different goods/food stuffs or even use her kibble. I would also work on the treats and using various ways to get her to engage them in various locations, but not necessarily from your hand. I would hide some food either kibble or the treat bits themselves around your room first. It will help her explore yet redirect her brain a bit. Use a box or two (really short/shallow ones) and put some kibble in it and then move it around from place the place in the course of a day if she is comfortable with that. You may want to pair that with your scent, old sock or a pieces of blanket or toy if she was shipped with one.
Give it time and work the treats to your advantage, given she takes them sometimes is a start. Pretend not to pay attention by learning to look out of the corner of your eye facing straight ahead even when crouching to get an idea where she is on the scale. All of this behavior should come around after acclimation, she is just really spooked at this point since nothing is familiar sight, smell, or other dog topped with mental exhaustion so she is in preservation mode. You are at bit of disadvantage at the moment....keeping up with the food angle is probably the best bet with plenty of space for her to personally feel safe.
Snf
On the walks I would focus on the walk, and not on bonding. At home, where the environment is less stressful for her, I would focus on bonding with her. Sitting by her, not making direct eye contact, but just in her general area so she can check you out.
I want to write more but I'm just too sick to put my thoughts together...
Thanks again. In an effort not to stress her out I switched the crates (wouldnt go near the airline one) and she was willing to slowly work her way in there for food bit at her best had one foot out. So rather than nudge her inside and shut the door I just left her to free roam my bedroom minus anything that could hurt her. I'm heading home now so we will see what she has been up to.
We picked up ChoCho on March 12.
3/13/12 (24 hours with us)
3/16/12 (4 days)
-We were trying to get her comfortable in the kitchen...
-This is mild pacing. She usually looked like a wild animal running back and forth. At least here she was looking around.
3/20/12 (8 days)
-Trying to get to her spend time in the kitchen.
Brad recommended walks for ChoCho so that she can get a better sense of her surroundings... but if walks are overwhelming for Sachi, then we'll have to figure something else out.
@cdenney There will be a lot of starting over. Some dogs have problems generalizing (ChoCho was like this). They might be ok with you in your room, but not in the kitchen. They might take a treat in their crate, but not outside of it. ChoCho was fine with Jeff in our room, but any where else she was terrified of him. It depressed him so much that he spent hours with her in the room, scratching, petting, and hand feeding her, and when she stepped out of the room she was scared to death of him. It took about 3 weeks and lots of love for her to like him every where.
Sometimes we would work hard on one thing and something or someone would scare her and it all went to pot. Patience, patience, and more patience.
Wow! Awesome that she just slept while you were gone! What a good girl!
@Hinata23 - I'm so glad that ChoCho has you! I think all the dogs have ended up where they should be! And with Jason's crazy graveyard schedule, I don't know how long (!) it would have taken Ritsu to be ok with him, poor guy! I'm super glad that he's doing so well where he is now! It all works out for the best when we have the dogs best interest in mind!!!
Secondly, I always say this but I have never met a dog who had an instantanious connection with their owner. We may think they do because they tolerate our cuddling our annoying bugging them, but they don't. The honest truth is your dog who just came to you has no idea who you are, what you're doing, and they don't like you but may see you as a resource for them. That sounds harsh, but it's really the truth. I can't tell you how many people have come to me depressed because their new puppy doesn't have a connection with them like Koda does with me. But guess what, Koda had no flippin' clue who I was when I got him. He mostly just kept to himself.
The thing is, you have gotten an older puppy. Koda was only 9 weeks old, so he was still emotionally dependent on others. Sachi can hold her own, so she's going to be more offstanding than a playful puppy. I think that you have gotten some wonderful advice about walking, not thinking too much about her growling (both my females growl at me by the way to just talk to me), and being patient and not pushing her. In two months, you are going to look back at this and see it as such a distant past because Sachi will bond with you. She will adore you....I'm sure of it.
I'm really glad that you are reaching out and seeking community for support. This forum helps so much when we are going through it with our pups.
@CarabooA Aw, thanks! It means a lot to me that people think we're the right family for ChoCho
@cdenney With her growling at you, she might still not recognize the sound of you... if that makes any sense. She might have thought you were someone else coming into your room and growled out of insecurity. It also doesn't help that you were coming up with another person. When Jeff would come into our room sometimes ChoCho would growl and try to hide. It wasn't until he got down on his knees and sweet talked to her that she realized it was him and calmed down. The wag is nice
We were living in the basement of Jeff's parent's house when we got ChoCho and she would freak out when they would come home or downstairs. I made sure to crate her when she started to get worked up so that she would feel secure in her safe place. Don't worry about her not letting you pet her. When I first met Sachi she was really shy and barely got close to us. She would sneak behind us to steal a sniff every once in a while and this was all while she was at Brad's-- where she's the most comfortable. I can't imagine her now.
It's a slow process, but in the end the bond you'll have with her will be that much deeper. That's how these dogs roll. They're not about superficial relationships. Hang in there
I hope Sachi Does better soon it might take some time and work and coarse patience.
Finally a small win! So Stacey rightly suggested leash her and keep it on. And I did until the fourth walk yesterday where the treats I'd been giving her gave her farts of death and made her poop smell... Well it burns and she got alittle on the leash. I took the leash off her and that set us back. In trying to get another on she went into total panic so no pressure stopped everything. This am she woke me up wanting out and was not interested in being near the leash. After starting over with approach me while sitting, taking treats from my hand, I held out the leash, when she sniffed she got a treat and this continued for awhile I could stretch out the leash, she would nuzzle and stretch out for the treat so I could just clip it on, everyone is happy! Will try this method to pet her later.
Good method in getting her leash adjusted. About leash(s), it may be helpful to have a slip lead that can be easily loop around her head without touching/clipping to allow for maneuvering and then once on, you can trade/clip to another more secure leash with snap bolt for walking her. I would not use the slip lead to walk her though, but use it to move her around directionally inside. We use british slip leads for shelter dogs and dogs that need moved from run to run that don't like touching of their heads or spook with direct contact.
You could always use the back end of a leash and pull it though to make a loose loop and have a second leash on had to clip to the collar once you have her close enough to handle. Just make sure you do not apply pressure if she backs up.....Go with it pretty much like you have been doing so there isn't stress.
Great job so far ....hang in there.
Snf
It's just really smelly otherwise solid so stress is there but its not the stress poos I don't believe
Cheers : )
Snf
@hinata23 I kept her food to the exact same she had.at brad and jens but the "blue" bits turkey treats I think are the cause I have EVO treats I'm trying next. I keep thinking I'm not feeding enough, she inhaled a bully stick(my old dog self monitored) but with the treats she has to be over her needs and that may affect? We just did an 1.5 hr walk so we will see how she does with the petting when more tired later.