@cdenney Good! I'm glad she's doing better. I guess crating her will give her something to look forward to when you come home! (brad said it while i was still writing!)
I had a hard time with ChoCho and "come" at first... I guess being an independent breed did not help. The more I practiced the other basic commands like "sit", "drop it", "leave it", etc, with treats the more she trusted and listened to me.
If she's being stubborn you can always just throw a treat in the crate and close it after her. She'll start listening again once she picks up on the pattern lol
Mini WIN! While Sachi was feeding out of my hand i used my fore finger to stroke her under jaw, she backed off but kept coming back for food, but being so close to her neck I thought it might be antagonizing so while she was eating again I was able to brush the side of her jaw and face with my thumb and she was fine with it, only pulled away when I moved to get another few pieces. FIRST TOUCH, DOWN!. Perhaps if she realizes this touch is fine and associated with food we can move on to the body!
GIve yourself a cookie! You are doing great! Baby steps! I am excited for you and Sachi I sure love a good shy-dog outcome, so keep up your spirits and good patient work. congratulations on the touch!
That's great! She's coming around. You will look back at this an laugh because in a few months she will be sleeping on you at night. lol Sachi is SUPER CUTE and LOVING. She's such a love bug.
Well over the past two days there has been some serious improvement and what felt like starting over from a blank slate.
BIG Win!- Crating- Yesterday when I left for work I fed her half her meal in there as the norm and then as she was in there shut the door softly. She did her stress whine at that moment then went on eating on her merry way. When I came back she came out of the crate as normal. Later when startled by my landlords pup who broke away from them she went in her crate to get away rather than pace or act out. Finally for the past two days, when it's time to sleep I left the door of the crate open so she could choose where she slept and so far for two days now she has slept there voluntarily.
Little Win- Developing Home- I had decided that nothing that would be traumatic would happen in the bedroom making it a safe space so that when pressured she would go there versus rush the doors. It works that it is her preferred choice of hide and survey.
Little Win- Appears to recognize her name from me now AND chooses to listen to the word come only when it suits her needs.
Redo- Walks- She went from stopping at every sound and person and bolting when leaves fell and touched her to walking at my side and not trying to drag me to the busiest street in the city. Today was as bad as day one. I take a handful of kibble to redirect her when she pulls where I don't want to go and she was not happy to walk. AND this was not helped by the fact that we met a woman who wasn't reading Sachi's language and not really listening to me what so ever and decided to bend her frame in half hover over Sachi and keep sticking her hand out to sniff. Sachi kept backing up and I went from "she's skittish" to "Ma'am please, you're scaring her, she is not used to people" at which point she questioned if Sachi was an abused rescue and walked off with a bit of a 'tude.
Redo- Petting- Still lets me rub my finger on her jaw bone when she eats out of my hand but I decided to bite the bullet and collar her (complete with tracker). It was not a happy moment in our relationship and I may have taken advantage of the moment and do one real pet which she took the way she took the collaring, unmoving and noiseless. She did immediately take a treat from my hand afterwards.
I have to say thank you all for your support, whomever told me to breathe deep (@ayk?) truly something to take with me. I have added to that "go slow then take it 5x slower Cait". This I am sure this is sounding trite given that I have had Sachi all of 5 days but I wish I had asked more of the questions I had pre Sachis arrival but assumed my experience with dogs would give me ample material to work with. Sachi has made me throw everything I know out of the window and get creative. Anyways I look forward to tomorrow to see how we stand then.
Glad the crate idea worked! Also glad that she's developed safe places to go and hide! That's good! Anything is better than pacing!!
Her listening whenever she feels it's convenient, don't worry... it's normal. She's an independent breed and a primitive one at that. She'll come to listen more with time, but there will always be the whole "aaaa.... I don't think I want to do that now. I want to keep doing my thing." It's worse now because she probably still doesn't consider you an authoritative figure... It happened to us. No worries.
I had some pretty terrible experiences walking ChoCho. So I totally understand what you're saying. At first I was shy about telling people "Sorry, she's shy and scared" (*couch couch* back off and leave her alone!), but after time I learned to pick up on her distress signals and avoid certain people by moving across the street or going back. I tried to never try to force her to meet someone. I did at first because I figured that she just needed to be exposed to people, but that just made things worse. Once I learned to listen to her and pick up the hints she did MUCH better. I let her approach the people and dogs she wanted and avoided those she didn't want. After months of going on walks she was significantly less scared of people and comfortable enough that she would rub herself on people she thought smelled funny lol. So I would say listen to her and go with it. Also somedays I would let ChoCho walk me. I'd let her go where ever she wanted to go... I ended up in Petsmart a lot lol (we went there once and she memorized the way). She would just walk, sniff, and explore. I would only do this on morning walks... never at night.
Again, when people are being jerks and not listening to you, just say "sorry she's scared. Have a nice day!" and walk away. She'll appreciate it!
If she took treats from you after you petted her and put the collar on, than she didn't think it was too traumatic of an experience!! LOL Sometimes... you just have to do what you need to do. They'll get use to it. We can't give them absolute freedom. They're kind of like kids in that way.
@cdenney - Kai can tend to do that to you (make you rethink what you know about dogs). They're very "pariah dog" in nature.
Sachi was pretty skittish when we got her from Japan. She's been this way since then. She went to puppy class and we took her out a lot for socialization, but she was born in the secluded mountains of Japan and came to us a little late in age (12 weeks) and therefore was somewhat a project for us too. Her brother was a bit better (she came to the US with her brother), but his owner has recently told me he is "selectively fearful" too... So, it seems it's not just Sachi.
This is the way importing goes, you get some great ones and you get some who need a little work. It's why we decided to place Sachi (and Hana) because we know that we just don't have as much time to give them as we would if we only owned a few dogs. Perhaps we should have placed them sooner, that's just a hard choice to make after spending thousands of dollars to get them here and knowing placing them means they are basically removed from our preservation efforts.
Anyway, I know I warned you that she would be a "project", but maybe she is more than that. I'm sorry if you feel as tho I should have provided more info. Really tho, it's anyone's guess how a dog will react when they are in a new environment. Feel free to call us if you need to talk through any issues, we're here to help however we can.
@brada1878 I by no means want to implicate I went into this blind. I know what the breed was about, its why I felt like this was the dog that would complement my life. you and Jen gave me the heads up and answered all my questions. I regret nothing and would do it again in a heart beat. She is so complex I keep having revelations and because she and I are new to each other I am keeping it slow. Sachi is a worth while project and I really appreciate you pulling her out of your program and placing her with me. Because she is "emotional" I just don't want to mess any thing up, it is why I keep coming back here to idea gather as to best methods and make sure I'm on track. I do always have some inane questions about this or that which I wished I had asked here before such as crating, walking etc but it has worked out well after the fact and I didn't have to trouble anyone for learning something on my own! So if I haven't said it before I would like to say sincerely say thank you for everything you have done in getting me and Sachi together.
@hinata23 she just stops and stares at them and backs up if they are in 10 ft. Though twice we have had positive encounters of the doggie kind with a Tibetan spaniel. The owner keeps him on a short leash and quiet so Sachi can inspect and today we walked together for a bit, well Sachi followed, she is getting bolder. We have a walk date tomorrow.
@cdenney Great!! Early on I noticed that ChoCho would only approach people with dogs or baby/toddlers, so I made a note and tried to walk in the direction of people who had either one or both! At first she ignored the humans and focused on the dogs/babies, but with time she was pretty outgoing with both.
So happy that she's slowly coming out of her shell.
Sounds like she is adjusting, slowly, but steadily. And you know, it might be awhile before she tolerates being petted very well, and that's ok. Some of my dogs do not like to be petted even after years, but just tolerate it. She probably just needs time. I'd just give up on the petting until she is ready for it, which could be a few weeks still, or months even.
(One of my Shibas never tolerates petting by strangers--anyone that isn't me no matter how many times she's met them--unless she initiates it. So people are usually pleased, when, you know, maybe several months after meeting her and seeing her repeatedly, she finally initiates touch!)
remind yourself from time to time ( i have to remind myself frequently) that there will be stretches with no progress, and backpedalling other moments, but thats all normal. Sage is my sensitive dog, and he'll never walk in town- i crossed that off completely- but he has good acheivements as well as bad moments, and overall he keeps moving toward good.
It's like being a goalie- pucks are going to get past you, almost every game! but a good goalie picks herself up, quickly notes anything to be learned (if any : "right! I need to keep my stick blade flat!") and then forgets about it so she's as ready for the next shot as she was for the first one. Reset button!
WINS!!!!- This dog lives to prove wrong and I am perfectly okay with that.
Walking- I have no idea if the mini walk with the spaniel this am helped but I got home early and it was such an abnormally warm day we went on a looong walk and Sachi was almost social! She would want to be on the same side of the street of said dogs but would stop 7 ft away and stare, few hackles, tail half cocked. Then she would ninja behind them as they moved on and would follow. When people passed her on the side walk about 50% of the time she just stayed there and waited for them to pass (she was tense) but all were good interactions. Finally we worked on a half way decent version of come AND to top it all off her tail was waving high like a flag and she had a smile the whole time.
Petting/Conditioning- Allowed my hand to do the normal jaw caress but after she ate she didn't back up and let my hand continue to hover there with no nervousness. Steps in the right direction!
Finally today I was at my desk and she was chilling and all of a sudden she comes up and sits next to me and noses me, so I give her a treat then she looks at me all expectantly and all happily and does a begging whine. THEN SHE STANDS UP AND WAGS HER TAIL LIKE A LITTLE HAPPY DOG LOVIN' SOME ATTENTION!! And she does it for awhile! WINWINWINWINWIN.
Comments
I sure love a good shy-dog outcome, so keep up your spirits and good patient work. congratulations on the touch!
BIG Win!- Crating- Yesterday when I left for work I fed her half her meal in there as the norm and then as she was in there shut the door softly. She did her stress whine at that moment then went on eating on her merry way. When I came back she came out of the crate as normal. Later when startled by my landlords pup who broke away from them she went in her crate to get away rather than pace or act out. Finally for the past two days, when it's time to sleep I left the door of the crate open so she could choose where she slept and so far for two days now she has slept there voluntarily.
Little Win- Developing Home- I had decided that nothing that would be traumatic would happen in the bedroom making it a safe space so that when pressured she would go there versus rush the doors. It works that it is her preferred choice of hide and survey.
Little Win- Appears to recognize her name from me now AND chooses to listen to the word come only when it suits her needs.
Redo- Walks- She went from stopping at every sound and person and bolting when leaves fell and touched her to walking at my side and not trying to drag me to the busiest street in the city. Today was as bad as day one. I take a handful of kibble to redirect her when she pulls where I don't want to go and she was not happy to walk. AND this was not helped by the fact that we met a woman who wasn't reading Sachi's language and not really listening to me what so ever and decided to bend her frame in half hover over Sachi and keep sticking her hand out to sniff. Sachi kept backing up and I went from "she's skittish" to "Ma'am please, you're scaring her, she is not used to people" at which point she questioned if Sachi was an abused rescue and walked off with a bit of a 'tude.
Redo- Petting- Still lets me rub my finger on her jaw bone when she eats out of my hand but I decided to bite the bullet and collar her (complete with tracker). It was not a happy moment in our relationship and I may have taken advantage of the moment and do one real pet which she took the way she took the collaring, unmoving and noiseless. She did immediately take a treat from my hand afterwards.
I have to say thank you all for your support, whomever told me to breathe deep (@ayk?) truly something to take with me. I have added to that "go slow then take it 5x slower Cait". This I am sure this is sounding trite given that I have had Sachi all of 5 days but I wish I had asked more of the questions I had pre Sachis arrival but assumed my experience with dogs would give me ample material to work with. Sachi has made me throw everything I know out of the window and get creative. Anyways I look forward to tomorrow to see how we stand then.
Her listening whenever she feels it's convenient, don't worry... it's normal. She's an independent breed and a primitive one at that. She'll come to listen more with time, but there will always be the whole "aaaa.... I don't think I want to do that now. I want to keep doing my thing." It's worse now because she probably still doesn't consider you an authoritative figure... It happened to us. No worries.
I had some pretty terrible experiences walking ChoCho. So I totally understand what you're saying. At first I was shy about telling people "Sorry, she's shy and scared" (*couch couch* back off and leave her alone!), but after time I learned to pick up on her distress signals and avoid certain people by moving across the street or going back. I tried to never try to force her to meet someone. I did at first because I figured that she just needed to be exposed to people, but that just made things worse. Once I learned to listen to her and pick up the hints she did MUCH better. I let her approach the people and dogs she wanted and avoided those she didn't want. After months of going on walks she was significantly less scared of people and comfortable enough that she would rub herself on people she thought smelled funny lol. So I would say listen to her and go with it. Also somedays I would let ChoCho walk me. I'd let her go where ever she wanted to go... I ended up in Petsmart a lot lol (we went there once and she memorized the way). She would just walk, sniff, and explore. I would only do this on morning walks... never at night.
Again, when people are being jerks and not listening to you, just say "sorry she's scared. Have a nice day!" and walk away. She'll appreciate it!
If she took treats from you after you petted her and put the collar on, than she didn't think it was too traumatic of an experience!! LOL Sometimes... you just have to do what you need to do. They'll get use to it. We can't give them absolute freedom. They're kind of like kids in that way.
You're doing awesome!! Keep it up!
Sachi was pretty skittish when we got her from Japan. She's been this way since then. She went to puppy class and we took her out a lot for socialization, but she was born in the secluded mountains of Japan and came to us a little late in age (12 weeks) and therefore was somewhat a project for us too. Her brother was a bit better (she came to the US with her brother), but his owner has recently told me he is "selectively fearful" too... So, it seems it's not just Sachi.
This is the way importing goes, you get some great ones and you get some who need a little work. It's why we decided to place Sachi (and Hana) because we know that we just don't have as much time to give them as we would if we only owned a few dogs. Perhaps we should have placed them sooner, that's just a hard choice to make after spending thousands of dollars to get them here and knowing placing them means they are basically removed from our preservation efforts.
Anyway, I know I warned you that she would be a "project", but maybe she is more than that. I'm sorry if you feel as tho I should have provided more info. Really tho, it's anyone's guess how a dog will react when they are in a new environment. Feel free to call us if you need to talk through any issues, we're here to help however we can.
----
So happy that she's slowly coming out of her shell.
(One of my Shibas never tolerates petting by strangers--anyone that isn't me no matter how many times she's met them--unless she initiates it. So people are usually pleased, when, you know, maybe several months after meeting her and seeing her repeatedly, she finally initiates touch!)
It's like being a goalie- pucks are going to get past you, almost every game! but a good goalie picks herself up, quickly notes anything to be learned (if any : "right! I need to keep my stick blade flat!") and then forgets about it so she's as ready for the next shot as she was for the first one. Reset button!
Walking- I have no idea if the mini walk with the spaniel this am helped but I got home early and it was such an abnormally warm day we went on a looong walk and Sachi was almost social! She would want to be on the same side of the street of said dogs but would stop 7 ft away and stare, few hackles, tail half cocked. Then she would ninja behind them as they moved on and would follow. When people passed her on the side walk about 50% of the time she just stayed there and waited for them to pass (she was tense) but all were good interactions. Finally we worked on a half way decent version of come AND to top it all off her tail was waving high like a flag and she had a smile the whole time.
Petting/Conditioning- Allowed my hand to do the normal jaw caress but after she ate she didn't back up and let my hand continue to hover there with no nervousness. Steps in the right direction!
Finally today I was at my desk and she was chilling and all of a sudden she comes up and sits next to me and noses me, so I give her a treat then she looks at me all expectantly and all happily and does a begging whine. THEN SHE STANDS UP AND WAGS HER TAIL LIKE A LITTLE HAPPY DOG LOVIN' SOME ATTENTION!! And she does it for awhile! WINWINWINWINWIN.
I am really glad things are progressing so well and she's moving along faster than I expected! Congratulations!