Raito no Hoshihime 'Sachi'--Spam (10.24)

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  • That's great! :o)
  • I'm glad that tailing the spaniel worked. I have a similar dog who needs the judgement of other dogs to evaluate people on outings.
  • edited December 2012
    Well things have definitely been on an improving trend.

    Walks with Sachi are amazing. She is no longer nervous when I approach her, her tail is up and wagging, her recall is decent (60%), getting across the street with out stopping or me having to drag her is 100% (we made a game out of it) and she play bows, jumps and prances around we got into a semi play fight. I would reach out and touch her forepaws, she would jump on my leg, I would push her head just alittle and she would play bow and run around me. Good interactions. With other dogs she is fully tail up no hackles, but still won't approach them face to face, she wants to ninja behind. This dog is a little social butterfly on a walk.

    In the house she is definitely exploring more and has no shame in begging from me (doing it as I write this with the cute chin on the leg) and is fairly comfortable accepting food from one of my roommates (the one we are moving with so yay!). Her tail is up 1/2 the time. She almost always comes to rest directly behind me and has made it a habit to fart in my tiny little bathroom as I am putting on make up so that I have to clear the room for several minutes. Funny and cute the first time, painful going on the third. We did a controlled meet with the landlords dog and it was okay but he got fiesty and pushed into her face and she corrected him. She ignores him through gates and today they were face to face and she just ignored him. She is definitely very reserved in the house. Hopefully moving to the apartment will help.

    Yesterday I thought since we have been doing better to finally unleash her, that way we could get comfortable leashing and unleashing. Well she remembered the treat trick from before and would take no part in it. Finally being comfortable enough with Sachi's signals I followed @sjp051993's advice and just leashed her. She stood still and took treats after but still not her favorite thing. I also got the harness over her head, more nerve wracking for her but with how much hardware she has on her neck (2 collars) it was too much of an overload after the accidental pet. We will continue with harnessing probably on Sunday--so I can get it fitted too.

    Sachi has become comfortable with my hands near her face from feeding her and yesterday my hand was just out there and she didn't draw back fully and boom! I made contact! One finger behind the ear. You could tell neither of this expected it. She was stock still and wide eyed while she decided if she liked it. I was stock still and amazed I touched her. I broke contact she relaxed. I managed to reconnect again but this time she had made up her mind and was starting to react so I cut our losses while we were ahead.

    Both related and unrelated I have questions that I am looking for some NK familiar advice.
    1. I can tell she wants to run and play, I took her in our backyard and was able to drop the leash so we could dodge around each other but she wants more. With her still being sketchy about dogs is a dog park a good idea?--and with that much stimulus I think our recall will drop considerably. What other options have people done or used to help? I'm on the fence about the idea.

    2. During walks lately the weather has been 60* or 32* and it varies from day to day. When it is colder she, if we are standing still too long, will start to get a full body quake. Does anyone get a coat for their NK? I feel like she should be able to handle it but I don't think her winter coat is in (not that I can really touch her and know right now)

    3. What else can I do to make her more comfortable indoors?

    Thanks guys! I am so happy that we have been on a steady upward trend, knock on wood it continues that way!
  • edited December 2012
    Great! It sounds like she's doing so much better!!

    I wouldn't take her to the dog park. I think it would be too much for her and if I'm not mistaking (please correct me if I am!), I thought that her being a bit stressed by the number of dogs at @brada1878 was one of the reasons she was rehomed. Even if you take her during off hours I'm not sure how much she'd listen, like you said... I would give her a couple of months before you give her freedom lol

    I have no idea about the whole coat thing... ChoCho regrew her winter coat because of 70 degree weather lol. Goro hasn't though, but he seems to be fine when it drops to 50 at night (Yes, that's about as cold as it gets this time of year lol). If she's still freaking out about the harness, I'm not sure she'd tolerate a coat. Especially since you have to put it on and take it off constantly. There are coats you just strap on instead of putting it on through the head and pulling the arms through. Maybe that might work, but she's have to be comfortable with you holding her.

  • Found this one and it's on sale for $17! http://www.backcountryk9.com/327/0/Products.aspx

    There's also this one: http://www.backcountryk9.com/384/0/Products.aspx

    Here's the website if you want to look for more: http://www.backcountryk9.com/Coats.aspx

  • Ooh and 4. Does anyone who crates have their dog yip like a coyote the attempt to break out. I keep finding two crate wired bent in and distorted.
  • @hinata23 thanks. That was part of the reason. It's just the only high fenced place with enough room to really play around I can think of. Does she need a coat or is quaking for another reason?
  • I have a couple that will destroy crates if they are made of thin wire. I get heavier wire crates for them. I would not put a coat on her. Give her time and she will adjust to the temperature. Avoid the dog park. Still way too early and will do more damage than good. Might try looking for an indoor training facility that will let you turn her loose inside of. That way she is fully contained. Kai spook easy and once spooked they almost forget who you are.
  • Id advise no to dog park. Think up games to play and space them out: training tricks, kibble puzzle balls, tug-release, Find-the-toy games in the yard...put an object in the yard- we used to buy hay bales ($5 a piece)- and build forts or steps to play on. She doesnt need other dogs, she needs the best of YOU most of all!

    My anxious dog has a very thick coat, and sometimes if we are standing at the school bus stop and if he gets overly focused on the neighbor dog's house he will quake. I know hes not cold, hes just brimming with standing still and stressing. To alleviate this, I took him across the road and we hunted mice in the grass (didnt find any) so his mind and body were in motion. He pretty high maintenance, but I love him.
  • @sjp051993 I didn't even think if indoor training parks that's a great idea! She needs to run and get some ball Chase games I think.

    @wrylybrindle I was thinking it might ne that but this am she was sitting on a hill doing the lion king surveying of her lands and had a hard quake going. I just don't want her getting sick.

    Thanks guys!
  • @sjp051993 what brand do you use? The door is starting to warp in.
  • I think must of us use the Midwest crates. http://www.amazon.com/Midwest-Life-Stages-Dog-Crate/dp/B0002AT3M4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1354810112&sr=8-1&keywords=dog+crate

    A lot of NK are escape artist so you'll have to use carabiners to secure the crate doors.
  • I zip ties one door shut and have been carbining the front since I saw wires start to bend
  • Either Midwest, the petsmart brand has stood up well. Look for the wire gauge. The smaller the number, the thicker the wire. I got some from dog.com that are awesome. The latches have a little piece that sticks out making it hard for the dog to open. It is the only crate I have that Tora does not know how to open. I am going to have to replace kazue's as she has bent it all kinds of crazy. They were a good price on eBay with free shipping. They did not have the wire gauge on the posting. Real thin wire. I thought kazue would be a safe one, but she has been mad. She is in season so has been crated a lot.
  • I would get a Midwest one. They are really durable. I had a couple if other ones and kaiju bent them.
  • No dog park. Most of us with NKs don't take our dogs to dog parks anyway, mostly because they are far too unpredictable with who will be there, but with a nervous dog who is not used to you yet (esp. a Kai with the flight risk) it could be a disaster.

    I've wondered about the shaking too. Leo does it sometimes. I can't believe he's cold, so I think it is nerves/excitement. He does, however, do it more if it is windy. Is that still excitement? Cold too? I don't know. His coat is thinner than my other dogs, but still, we're talking days it is 45-50,and I can't believe he's too cold--he was born in NM with plenty of wind!

    Glad to hear there is progress....slow and steady is best!
  • Yes, Sachi was rehomed for a few reasons, but the main one was that she seemed more sensitive to "kennel stress" (stress from being around a lot of dogs) than our other dogs. She did GREAT with dogs in small groups (4 or so dogs), especially male dogs, but showed signs of stress if we had her in a large group (6+ dogs) of mostly female dogs.

    Also, Sachi was very much an "inside dog", she loved just chilling in the house with us. Which would be totally fine if we didn't already have so many "inside dogs"... and thus, we wanted to place her in a home where she would have more of what she likes (just chilling out on a couch with her peeps).

    A dog park at very very early hours when no dogs are there may be ok. But I would mos def not go when there are many dogs there. It may just end up stressing her... But, having written that, she is no stranger to large groups of (very social) dogs.

    Also, as an FYI, Sachi can kick some dog-ass if needed. She's a sharp tough Kai girl.

    About the shaking, Kai shake when they are excited. Most of ours do that. Sachi should be no stranger to cold, it got very cold in Taos - even in our home. Same applies to Leo ( @shibamistress ), he shouldn't be cold. But, they both may be out of coat right now, I dunno...

    ----
  • @brada1878 excitment makes sense. She I think with the end of heat them spay/ stress of moving will start shedding but she doesn't seem fully in coat but heading there if she doesn't blow. It seemed improbable but it was cold outside.


    I'm going to wait a little before the park, I would like to get her harnessed before we try that venture.

    @sjp051993 rolling with your idea I remember my petcare center has a second property with a 8 ft fence and agility field I'm going to see if they will let me start there.
  • I am so glad things have improved so much! Congrats!

    I also think the dog park is a bad idea, especially right now while she is so new and you're still in the bonding/familiarizing stages. We avoid the dog park like the plague lol

    Is there a fenced vacant lot or anything near you? There is a vacant lot near a private airport here that has tall fencing and no one ever goes there. A friend of ours with 2 GSD's got permission to use that lot to exercise his dogs. It works out well because it is a HUGE space but is secure. If you could find something like that....

    Thank you for keeping us posted =)
  • Man I've been so busy with family visiting and my sister's wedding I haven't been on here in days.
    It sounds like Sachi is very similar to Ren in terms of timidness. I've been getting her acclimated to other areas of the house and new people since I've gotten her. It's a very slow road, but every small step is an awesome accomplishment. Just be patient and consistent! Short and sweet is how I keep it with Ren. For example, to get her used to the downstairs area and living room I would have her on leash and keep her with me while everyone else either ignored her or gave her treats (only me giving her treats first, then others dropping them on the floor first, then gradually move to from the hand). If you check out Ren's thread and this one (http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/7952/nervous-growling-when-non-owner-walks-down-the-hall-or-enters-room-tips/#Item_38) there are some more ideas :)

    I generally limit interactions in new areas of the house or new people to about 1 minute sessions to keep it short and positive, then when she indicates she's getting more comfortable then we'll go up to 3-5mins. That's how I got her used to the kitchen and living room, now she'll stay perched behind me on the back of whatever couch I'm sitting at with company around, and even started coming down on her own to join me! I've only had her since August which sounds like a long time, but it's passed quickly. So don't overload yourself with expectations/stress and just let things work out at her pace!
  • And congratulations on the small wins, especially the happy tail wags while wanting attention! My chest wanted to burst the first time Ren stood up on the side of my chair with her paws on the armrest, ears up, smiling, and wagging her tail all happy :) I didn't take Ren to any dog parks until about three months in. By that time she was attached to me as "her person" and I generally have no issues collecting her when I need her. She also hovers nearby people and dog watching for the most part. At the first sign of being overwhelmed I'll take her out and go for a short walk before either going back or if she's done (and I can tell easily now) then we leave.
  • What about petting. She is my little shadow around the house (now matter who is there) and fairly comfy to come beg from me but still sketch about the touching. I have no idea why I'm so focused on the pets.
  • Thinking back, I don't recall her being strange about being petted, however I may just be too jaded by Kai. I know a lot of our Kai are very hesitant about being petted o the head. I think it'll just take time...
  • Well Ren didn't let me pet her more than a slight stroke on the neck after each treat for a while, so that's just what I did. Stroke for every treat once she had been taking them for my hand for a day or two, trying for a scritch every now and then until she let me. She's also just as curious about what I'm doing too, if she hears my computer chair creaking in a particular way (when I get up) she immediately wakes up or stops what she's doing to see if she can follow me or if I'm just going to the bathroom. It's good that she follows you though! That means you're her security blanket and she would rather be with you than alone, even if she is still unsure about the touching part.
  • @cezieg if she hears movement she definitely goes to inspect and might be showing some signs of separation anxiety (and as much as that sucks for her I am secretly pleased she misses me). I can touch her jaw and nose just fine but eh...it will come.

    @brada1878 I know ...no idea why I am focused on it but we have had more wins. We are taking the leash on and off after every walk, she is much less fearful about it (though still not 100%). She is still uberplayful on walks and has been meeting dogs. Usually dog in question needs to be held still or ignore her then she will go face to face. The biggest dog meeting dog win is with my landlords teen and they were nose to nose sniffing something on the ground and she was almost willing to play with him. Her favorite toy is a Christmas panda and she doesn't squeak it (ever while i am in earshot) but brings it with her through the house if we are going to be long term in a different room than the bedroom; though will immediately drop it if it looks like I am going to take a picture, I think it is her security stuffed animal. And their is a suspiciously dog sized and shaped impression on my bed (I didn't crate her when leaving for work today--she broke the water dish when warping the wires and I was unwilling to lock her up with out water, she was fine in my room and seems to have played there were toys strewn everywhere).
  • edited December 2012
    I am happy to report that Farts Mcgee and I have reached a new understanding and thankfully hasn't bombed nearly as often--For those of you don't have flatulent pups let me tell you, this is big, almost as big as me petting her!!!

    That's right Sachi now lets me pet her. If we are in the house or on a walk she is unsure of it but will let me go on. If she is already in a stressed situation she sits right by me lets me go to town and gets her eyes half lidded, ears slouched to the side look of contentment that tells me I hit a sweet spot.

    We did our first real outing to a public place a few days ago. Sachi has been sketch about car rides but improving. I have a 2 door hatchback but the doors swing out far and is low to the ground. After experimenting we have found she prefers to enter and exit the car from the side door but prefers to have all the back seats down so she can wander and look. After talking with @thegela and reading about @hinata23 experiences with the thundershirt I decided to try it. Car ride to the boutique was longer than planned about 40 mins but worth it not going to one of the super-pet-stores. In the store she was definitely nervous and wouldn't approach people head on for a sniff (very normal) but would ninja behind; also in store the shirt didn't make a difference but she did settle down in the car quickly. For a first public outing she did as well as I could have hoped. There were three staff members, two loose store dogs, and three other customers and I think she handled it well so I will keep continuing to socialize her with low key outings.

    After the store, we went to the vet, the real reason for getting the thundershirt. Sachi needed her front talons trimmed and I wanted to get her on a heartworming med and get a basic exam so we had a standard of "normal" to know her by. I love my vet, Sachi only kind of hates her. Littlegirl was calmly wandering the vets office sniffing the three staff and kept trying to get in all of the exam rooms. They finally put us in one and she was half tailing it and exploring (they don't use tables for dogs everyone gets on ground to do what ever needs to be done). She came over for pets! The first time I touched my pup we were at the vets! She sat with me until the exam started, getting some loving. We did basket muzzle her as we weren't sure how she would react and had been all "don't touch me" until about 15 minutes previous. She went into it fine, didnt balk or freeze. Nail clipping was...not her favorite thing but the vet wanting this to be a good experience didn't press it by cutting as short as she could have or by drawing the exam out. During the exam we found out that she had the start of the ear infection so they gave me a cleaner that as she becomes more comfortable with me touching her I will start to clean her ears, hopefully this will stop the infection from going further and will heal on its own without needing meds.--At the end of all this when they released her I was sitting on the ground leaning on a wall a foot away she walked up pushed her forhead into my bicep and let me take the muzzle off and then kept her head there until they left the room at which point she started asking for treats and pets. Overall not to bad IMO. (however the next day she was DEPRESSED. I left her alone to recoup after the stress but I looked at her activity tracker that night from when I was gone at work normally she plays in the room quite a bit--she slept the ENTIRE time)

    heh. She also wouldn't let me take the thundershirt off (the velcro noise and pulling makes her nervous) the next day, I had left it on overnight. So as much as I want to use it I will need to counter that need with how much it freaks her out to take it off.

    Walks have been up and down. We have had some okay walks--never as bad as when I first got her but you could tell she was taking no enjoyment in them. We also started having some really good ones. She started playing with one of her doggie friends an 8lb little white dog mix. She re-started play bowing and wrestling with me. Today we had a full tail up the entire time too and she is getting talkative so I think she really is settling in.

    I believe our move in two weeks will help continue this growth even if we have another few days of readjustment. In two weeks we have shown improvement in every area so I am quite pleased looking at our road ahead.

  • Also alittle spam. Pictures during walks aren't doable yet but this is the best I can do ATM:

    Spazzing in our first carride:
    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397100_618116188800_2086128757_n.jpg

    Stalking from her hiding spot:
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/205179_618116413350_1165596430_n.jpg

    Stalking from his favorite spot (directly over her hiding spot):
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425630_618116358460_871387218_n.jpg

    She has a crate, a bed, and my bed and yet she usually ends up just on the floor:
    https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/523744_618116528120_1381176573_n.jpg
  • hahah yay!!! Awww! She's so cute!! I'm so happy for your wins!! Sounds like she's starting to trust you! :) yay!!
  • Great to hear that she's doing better! :)
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