Don't know if it will work with Hana, but here is what I did with Ritsu. I felt with the harness I did not have much control of Ritsu during walks. I started walking him with just his martingale collar, making sure it was snug enough that he could not back out of it. When he starts to stress, or freak, I give the leash a gentle tug and use the command "let's go". If he hesitates, I tug again. Not hard, just a gentle tug. As soon as he moves forward, lots of praise. We did this a couple of times, and now I don't even have to tug on the leash. When I see him starting to tense and slow his pace, I just give the command and he relaxes and moves forward. I coupled this with a calm, confident dog and we now have no issues on our walks. The other day as we got back from our walk, there was someone visiting the guys in the other part of the house. When he saw this new person, he started to tense and freak. A quick Let's go, and he was trotting along with me again. Again when he starts to stress or freak, I look to see what is causing the issue. I don't make a big deal of it, and just kinda treat it likes it nothing. When I make a big deal about something that is upsetting any of my dogs, it makes matters worse.
Each dog is different and so something that works for one might not work for another. One thing I have found with kai is they pick up on small things and can blow them out of proportion. Tora at one time was a happy, outgoing dog that loved to show. She was attacked by a mastiff outside the ring at a show. The dog did not make physical contact with her as I prevented that using my own body. The mental part is what took me by surprise. She associated the show ring with the attack. After that she would fall apart in the show ring and become a basket case. I made a big deal of it and coddled her alot through it. What I did not realize at the time was it made it ten times worse. Finally, I took a different approach. I quit making a big deal of it. I got her back out to shows and would only reward her for being calm. When I took her in the ring, I made her stand to be examined instead of excusing myself if she started to break down. I also realized I needed to remain calm and relaxed through it all. After one weekend of this, she was back to herself in the show ring. She is a calm, confident dog again. She will greet new people and dogs in a calm, confident manner again.
Remember Hana can from an environment what was quiet. She was surrounded by calm, confident dogs and had a routine. Get her into a routine. She is use to being crated, use it to help keep her calm. When you have her out and about, make sure you are remaining calm. Don't let her focus on things that cause her stress. You may have to give her a tug or 2 to move her along.
@hinata23 ohh thank you!! yeah she's small and super cute! And she's very sweet in her personality. Very calm and gentle.
@sjp051993 that is a good suggestion. I'll try getting a martingale for her. Tugging her with a harness has no effect on her, so maybe a martingale will be better. Here's what happens exactly: I will give her a treat when she comes to me, giving her praise to reinforce that coming to me, is a good thing. When she does her "freeze and silently freak out moment", I pause and stand still with her. I look around go see what it is that has got her spooked. Ill stand by her side and wait for her to get over her moment. It's usually a person in the distance getting in or out of their car, or someone walking their dog in the distance. Sometimes, a firm "lets go," will do, and sometimes she will start to pull in the opposite direction. She actually starts to lean away when we are standing still. The only time I pick her up is when she absolutely refuses to come with me, and at that point treats or commands won't work. She won't even react to her name. Maybe im giving off a stress signal that she can pick up on? I feel like I'm trying my best to be chill and remain calm and be patient, but it's so hard when she's stubborn to the end. Sigh!
It can be frustrating. Kai seem to be very sensitive. That quality has it good and bad points. Try moving her along before she gets herself worked up too much. Let her look at what is going on for a second or 2 and then move her on. Don't let her dwell on what she sees.
@thegela@hinata23 ChoCho used to have issues going home and the hinata23 household would have to carry her home. I only use a martingale collar to walk with Sachi (she has a second collar with tags and a tracker). Initally she would see me walking behind her and spaz because I was following her (like tail down, hunkered, or bolt). So we got to this routine where I would turn away from her while still walking in her direction and she would follow me from behind a bit and then take the lead. Then we would rinse and repeat as she would spaz again. She wouldn't recognize her name with me initally so first I would squat and hold out a hand with a smelly treat or drip lobbies to get her to come towards me, then added her name on to it ib a particular voice (hard stressing on both syllables n.o baby language). To now if I say it she will look at me and wait for my direction. Also I followed @wrylybrindle s advice with the just sit there with them while they scope, step out when they do, take deep breaths (really it helps) and don't give away anything just be calm and send good vibes. All of this helped us but our largest improvement came after our first mini walk with another dog. Thankfully the owner was on it and read Sachi very well and was willing to use her dog in that situation. If you have a friend or family member with a dog slightly smaller than hana (ive found Sachi approaches them faster) and is calm or even better calm and male have a meet in a neutral area infront of your place where she can ninja behind for a smell and have them walk ahead hana will follow. You can do this, it is very worth it, just hang in for tge ride atm.
The martingale collar is a good idea. Hachi (AA) has some fear/freakout issues when walking in unfamiliar area or walking at an unusual time of day and the martingale is a very good collar to use. He can't get out of it and run away and I have more control than with a harness. Like stated above, a gentle tug and a "let's walk" is all it took.... You will get there it will just take time.
Kudos to you for all that you have achieved with her thus far and I know that it will get better with time and patience!
@thegela ...Yeah, I can't begin to describe how difficult returning home was with ChoCho... No matter the collar, harness, or treats, she would not move towards the house. We tried different routes (never going down the same street twice) and she just memorized them after the first time and planted her bum on the sidewalk and would not move. I had to call my husband to come pick us up because I couldn't carry her for 4 blocks... sometimes she'd spot as far as a mile away from home. I tried to take her on long walks to see if she'd want to go home when she tired, but nothing... She 95% better now. The only time she acts up is when we reach the stairs of our building. Jeff usually has to carry her up to the 3rd floor if we don't have treats with us. Silly girl.
Hello everyone, so quick update, and it's a bad one. We go to church on Sundays (and my husband is a pastor so there's no way we can miss it) and to my horror, we come back home to hear more drilling and banging. I crated her with a blanket before we left, so she wasn't all freaked out, but she was definitely not all that happy. The walls are thin and the drilling and banging reverbs through the house and is so loud I have to raise my voice to talk to my husband. We wanted to take her out for a quick pee because I know she was probably in no mood for a nice walk. I fitted a martingale on her, and as soon as we went out, she peed then she totally bolted with my husband holding the lead with a death grip, running with her trying not to choke her. She completely flipped out and was trying to get out of the collar, so I run over as quick as I can so she doesn't hurt herself or somehow get out of it and I carry her back home. She's not struggling in my arms or anything, but I feel like the problem is getting worse. I feel soooo horrible for her and it breaks my heart that she's so unhappy I'm so frustrated and upset at the construction guys I'm close to tears. My husband and I have even started to fight because we're totally at a loss. We found out who the construction guys were and they will be here all week. Drilling and banging away. They completely gutted their living room/kitchen area it seems. It's the worst possible timing and I don't know what is best for her at this point. I don't want to constantly expose her to this stress and pressure her for during potty time, and I feel like she's never gonna get a break and eventually she'll be so stressed I won't be able to help her. Please advice? (Also just want to express my thanks and appreciation or everyone's patience and help)
@thegela I can't remember how many times I called up or texted Brad and Jen these words, "She's so unhappy here with us." Please don't take her freak out personal. She's scared and not knowing how to make her feel better at first is totally OK. She needs to get to know your family as much as you have to get to know her.
One thing that helped Goro with early potty training was picking him up and carrying him outside where I needed him to pee. Because he wasn't use to the carpet he thought it was the same thing and peed on it on the way to the door. So, I would carry Hana outside and place her on the grass. I doubt she'll pee on you. Also try to take her out before you leave and take the water away if you're not going to be gone all day. If she freaks out while walking and you can't control her--pick her up and remove her from the place she's scared of. I found this worked pretty well with ChoCho.
There's a reason why Brad and Jen decided to re-home these dogs. It wasn't because they regretted getting so many dogs, but because they felt that these dogs needed a home where they would get something they couldn't give them... either it be more time or a different environment. Your family was chosen over other people. One of the things that kept us from returning ChoCho was the thought of someone else taking her and doing a poorer job than we were doing.
Keep trying. It's worth it. I truly believe so! It's a long and slow process and you're barely a week into it. Things can get better, we just have to figure out how.
Can you take her to work for the week and crate her by your desk? or crate her in the car? Can she crate up at a friend's or relative's house till construction is over when you cant be there? That's really tough...
Walk her double leaded, use the martingale for control, and the harness as a back up if she bolts. My landlord has been replacing a sofet at 3am for the past week. We hear the drilling and hammering but if you turn on music and ignore it (or in my case go back to sleep) she will follow your lead and pick up your cues. If it is not to cold maybe open the windows? It may help dissipate the sound (less wavelengthd bouncing off the walls?) Plus might help aquaint her with city sounds at a distance.
Play with her and interact with her as much as possible- don't give her free reign of the house? Up until 3 days ago I've shut Sachi into Wgat ever room I was in. Now she chills smack between the two rooms so and can watch me in either. Create the bond and the little wins. Also hand feed most meals.
Brad and Jen believe you and your hubby are the best they can give Hana so she is with you, you are doing absolutely everything you should and can. It takes time. Remember Brad said Hana is one of the hardiest Kais they've had. She will bounce back from this fine.
@thegala, having fostered and/or adopted many fearful/unsettled dogs I can tell you the road is long and tough but the payout when she finally says "Hey, I love these people" and starts to show you she trusts you more is so very worth it. It will come.... and you will look back and be so proud of her but also of yourselves.
Maybe you could carry her to a low stress place to potty (a small patch is just fine for now). Somewhere away from the things that scare her the most? I agree with @WrylyBrindle- can you crate her at work or friends/family when you cannot be with her at home while they are doing the construction?
Make sure the martingale collar is snug enough (not tight or anything) that she can't back out of it and then (like said above) have the harness too for backup.
Are there any forum members that live in your area that could babysit while you work while they remodel next door? If you lived in Alabama I would gladly help out!
So sorry to hear about all your struggles, and the absolutely dreadful timing of the construction! It really is dreadful!
But you will get through this, and so will she. It's not easy, but hang in there!
I have a fearful Shiba who has serious issues with noise. And she's epileptic too, so she sometimes has had seizures which I believe were simply triggered by stress. I have found that the DAP diffuser and the thundershirt help. They don't cure the fearfulness, but they take the edge off. DAP is pretty subtle and will not work alone, but I think it makes the thundershirt more effective. I also give her melatonin, which helps her calm too. (In her case, she also take phenobarbital which also helps a lot, but that's for her seizures).
In the worst case scenario, you could ask a vet for a mild sedative to get her through this. My vet describes the effect of the sedatives like this: they take the edge off of a scary trigger, until the dog has a few experiences were the triggering thing was not so scary, and eventually, they start to lose their fear of the scary thing. We've seen this with our girl: she was terrified of thunder, and we used a sedative for her, and she would curl up and sleep. Eventually, we didn't have to give her the sedative, but she still would curl up and sleep during thunderstorms.
If you do this, acepromazine, a common sedative, is usually NOT the best choice for dogs with noise phobias, because apparently it may make them more sensitive to sound, but unable to act on that fear, so for some animals can exacerbate the problem. I will tell you, however, that we give Ace to our girl, because none of the other sedatives we tried worked on her at all (they made her hyper and aggressive). So even with one that is not ideal, we've seen some good reactions with her. Like others have said, you never know what is going to work with an individual dog, and in our case, something that is usually not ideal has worked very well.
Good luck to you, and I'm sorry that it's such rough going right now.
Good ideas....I agree, this week I would take her to another area for the day. If the workers are doing construction the probably of setting of the alarms again is high.
This may be a far off shot. Maybe there is a doggie day care or center in your area that has "special play time" for more sensitive dogs. I am wondering if maybe this would help to pull her through for dog to dog interaction and bridging acclimation. At this point since you are not able to really walk Hana great distances I am thinking that her pent up negative energy is going into wigging out and overly dwelling since she can't expend it appropriately and there aren't any dogs in the house to assist with this. (Dap is a good idea, as is lavender and rosemary sprigs or oils that can be obtained a local health food markets. They can be put on a bandana if you are worried about applying on the coat directly).
I would call around to see if trainer can help you, not to train but to possibly offer a safe dog to pair with to get you guys over the hump.
Try Rescue Remedy also. And baby steps! Lots and lots of baby steps. Try to stay emotionally neutral as possible and be as matter of fact as possible when handling her. If that means initially that she is crated most of the day (with frequent potty breaks and chances to stretch her legs) during this adjustment period, she will get over it. Every new dog I have had here, is initially confined on a strict schedule and not pressured much to interact with me until they show signs they are comfortable. I make sure to keep my expectations very low if the dog seems nervous or anxious, and I know they can survive being crated or gated in a room during the transition. So don't feel guilty about confining).
She will learn to deal with the noise inside, just be consistent and unemotional. If she has a true panic moment inside, put her in a crate with a sheet over it and call it good for the night. She will eat when she's hungry.
Perhaps continue to keep a harness on her with a second leash (just to grab on to in case), during potty walks, in addition to walking her on a martingale. Patience pays off in spades with Kai!
Wow. I want to respond to everyone's suggestions and advice individually, but I think it might be more efficient if I give a general response/update.
So last night, walking has improved. I used only the harness because she was most comfortable in it, but I tried tossing the treat towards the direction I wanted her to go everytime she froze, and that seems to be working. She would get distracted from whatever made her pause and would go after the treat, then resume walking. Sometimes calling her would do the trick, but sometimes she needs the treat toss to get her motivated. Sometimes multiple treat tosses in a row. Either way, I feel like it's an improvement because I didn't have to pick her up to get her home.
I am still getting a thundershirt for her today. Probably an XS or an S. Not sure which size would be better, but I'm waiting for Brad or Jen's response to see which would be better.
I can't take her to work with me because I work in the middle of downtown, and the traffic noise, and many people in my studio would totally freak her out. Taking her to a new location is also a big deal.
It's like choosing the lesser of two evils when deciding between leaving her at home, covering her crate with a thick blanket and putting music on, or taking her to my inlaws where it is quiet but a new environment which is also extremely stressful for her.
I chose to take her to the in laws (no one is home and it is quiet but my husband is there to take care of her today) and of course, she loses control of her bowel movement and almost poops in the car, and again immediately as she enters the house.
She is SO afraid of new places, that right now, taking her a daycare, or even obedience class (which I feel is necessary for her - to socialize and give her confidence) is almost out of the question.
How does one go about conditioning a dog who's afraid of new places, but needs to go to new places? Is flooding the only way with lots of treats?
We are taking her to a friend's house tonight, so that she will at least get an introduction to her place, before possibly dropping her off the next morning if my husband needs to go to work.
Again, this is almost equally as stressful, and I don't know which is worse, but at the same time, I want her to get used to going to new places.
Everyone has suggested lots of great ideas and I will probably try them all if not, do my best to, there are just so many things I need to work on with her, that it's also a little overwhelming for me. Damn construction making it so complicated.
I think the biggest problem right now is making her comfortable going to new places. I know it will probably take lots of time and patience as well, but given the circumstances, she needs to either start going to classes, or be okay with going to a friend's home to get away from the constant construction noise. Does anyone have any tips for that?
I feel like all I do is come here to beg for advice, and I have nothing to give in return. Everyones' response gives me hope and it's so encouraging it really helps me mentally and emotionally as well. I am really really grateful and hope that I can return the favor to someone else one day.
@ayk I can definitely try. I know it will lessen the impact of stress that way. The problem is, how patient do I stay until I decide I need to go to work? I would love to stay work on it patiently, but it's so hard with a tight schedule.
My suggestion right now is to not worry about taking her new places, just worry about getting her comfortable in her pimary space (the home). If she seems comfortable, than sure, you can advance depending on her cues, but no, I wouldn't flood her with such big steps. Little amounts of pressure like Ayk suggests is good and that is the type of baby step I would suggest.
@lindsayt Right. That makes sense. She is pretty comfortable at home (inside) like she was zooming around this morning after our walk, and was trying to wrestle with me. And I want to take baby steps, but I guess in this case, just crating her while the construction is going on may be less stressful than a whole new environment?
That's great to hear she is zooming about. So hard to know what to think without seeing her in action.....
See what Brad and Jen have to say since they know hana best. I somewhat agree about getting her adjusted to home first, but if home is not really a safe space at this point and it's out of your control you have to have a back up plan. You have to do what you can for what you are in control of, so if you have to bite the bullet like you are doing I would take her to other quite location like friends, parents or in-laws if need be (with crate and blanket) if it has minimal chaos and they can keep her in escape proof situation. At first any place will probably cause the poops or what we call the second poops usually occurring after arrival. Being aware of that is half the battle so you can work in elimination schedule upon destination arrival and again once back home. She may always be a second pooper but it may be less severe with more acclimation and time.
As far as "training"/day care center, it really depends on the center and the approach of those helping you. Quick fyi, I have a go to person here for dogs that need acclimation and they have safe dogs and we start out one on one in an escape proof area for any new dogs coming in. Of course and eval is done before any introductions are made to make sure the dog taking it in is ok first. Sometimes we just hang out and leave. We go in baby steps. A center that allows for baby steps is a big asset. They are out there but you have to dig to find them. We have been where you are with some rescues and did manage to get the dogs over it. Hang in there and see how it goes...
@StaticNfuzz yeah, I know it's hard to describe everything and I forget to mention some details. I am waiting on Brad and Jen's advice, and see what they have to say, but in the meantime, I guess I just have to do what I can do.
In terms of acclimation, is it just a matter of repetition and positive reinforcement? Of course, assuming she's okay getting in the car, it's mostly getting out in a new location that really scares her. I'll do some research and look for center that is sensitive to sensitive dogs. Baby steps! Thank you~
@ayk no, we don't have something like that. we live in a townhouse complex with no private yard, but we share a communal yard in our courtyard. She's generally okay with going potty in our area. Coming home after walks are a challenge, but tossing treats towards the direction I want to go (back home) will do the trick if calling her over doesn't.
http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/classical-conditioning I came across this article when I was researching tips and advice on conditioning to new environments. It seems like it's mostly parallel to what everyone was saying here. Just thought I'd share it.
@thegela You have some great advice. The only thing I can add is lose the martingale. If she is flipping out and running, then the strangulation from the martingale is only going to freak her out more.
I like martingales, but have noticed with kai pups that a harness is better when they are nervous. I use a martingale for training with Mika, but never walk her with it. She's too young, and when she does get scared, the tension flips her out even more. She does not react with a harness to the same stimuli.
Just a note on the thundershirt: I have a medium for my 36 pound Shiba, and it's tight on her (I mean they are supposed to be, but it barely gets around her). She's "busty" (ie. barrel chested) though. Still, I would put the medium on my 8 month old Kai (if he needed it which he doesn't) and I'm going to have to buy a large for the Sheebs.
Also, I would not worry about taking her new places at all yet unless you absolutely have to. For my scaredy girl, I finally decided that she was less stressed NOT going places, so I take her for rides, but don't get her out of the car, and don't actually take her new places anymore, including to training classes, where she'd just shut down. She's different, of course as her fear is not from just being moved, but is a symptom of chronic conditions she has, but I think its ok if dogs don't enjoy new places. There are times they have to adjust, but my decision with my girl has been not to force her if I don't have to, and mostly I don't have to. With a very fearful dog, it's like Lindsay said: baby steps. Tiny, tiny steps. And I think Hana is not congenitally fearful (if there is such a thing!) as Bel tends more towards, but Hana is just have a very hard time adjusting to her radically different situation. In time, she'll probably be able to go new places.
gela you ask: In terms of acclimation, is it just a matter of repetition and positive reinforcement?
Positive reinforcement, yes. Sticking to a routine is helpful and also creating a safe space so a dog does not feel the need to be on alert and is able to decompress.
About repetition, it depends on the dog and situation. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I know not a definitive answer. : / More importantly it is understanding body language, context and managing before a dog gets to it's elevated threshold and having a good idea where exactly that threshold is. This can vary from day to day, place and activity. I know more vagueness. That's why it's so hard to give advice blindly without seeing a dog in action.
A lot of what you will do is going to be trial and error as you work through it, as long as she does not freak out too much. Guiding her to reach beyond her boundary when she is somewhat ready to. It does get better but it takes time and some creative thinking in order that one set of senses do not over ride the others pushing an animal over their individual limits.
I hope this makes some sense even if it isn't direct steps. : ) Snf
@tjbart17 yeah, I agree. I will not be using the martingale on her, because although it's not choking her, when she gets spooked, that feeling of choking freaks her out even more.
@shibamistress I will definitely do my best to not pressure her too much and move in baby steps. I also think she's UBER sensitive she's having a harder time adjusting, but so far she's been (what I think is) slowwwwwwwwllly improving. It's like... two steps back, one step forwards? But at least there's a step forward in there, and sometimes it's no step back and one step forward, so it sort of evens out?? How is Bel when she goes to the vet? Is there any place other than home she likes?
@StaticNfuzz Thank you, and yes, I'm definitely learning to listen to her body language more, and am beginning to learn where her threshold is. It's confusing though, because she will take and eat the treats, but she won't really stop being stressed if that makes any sense? It's like fear hasn't completely taken over, but there are no signs of her getting comfortable. I wish I could carry everyone in my pocket so you can all help me in person, but in miniature so you can physically see her and help. haha (creepy)
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Each dog is different and so something that works for one might not work for another. One thing I have found with kai is they pick up on small things and can blow them out of proportion. Tora at one time was a happy, outgoing dog that loved to show. She was attacked by a mastiff outside the ring at a show. The dog did not make physical contact with her as I prevented that using my own body. The mental part is what took me by surprise. She associated the show ring with the attack. After that she would fall apart in the show ring and become a basket case. I made a big deal of it and coddled her alot through it. What I did not realize at the time was it made it ten times worse. Finally, I took a different approach. I quit making a big deal of it. I got her back out to shows and would only reward her for being calm. When I took her in the ring, I made her stand to be examined instead of excusing myself if she started to break down. I also realized I needed to remain calm and relaxed through it all. After one weekend of this, she was back to herself in the show ring. She is a calm, confident dog again. She will greet new people and dogs in a calm, confident manner again.
Remember Hana can from an environment what was quiet. She was surrounded by calm, confident dogs and had a routine. Get her into a routine. She is use to being crated, use it to help keep her calm. When you have her out and about, make sure you are remaining calm. Don't let her focus on things that cause her stress. You may have to give her a tug or 2 to move her along.
@sjp051993 that is a good suggestion. I'll try getting a martingale for her. Tugging her with a harness has no effect on her, so maybe a martingale will be better.
Here's what happens exactly:
I will give her a treat when she comes to me, giving her praise to reinforce that coming to me, is a good thing. When she does her "freeze and silently freak out moment", I pause and stand still with her. I look around go see what it is that has got her spooked. Ill stand by her side and wait for her to get over her moment. It's usually a person in the distance getting in or out of their car, or someone walking their dog in the distance. Sometimes, a firm "lets go," will do, and sometimes she will start to pull in the opposite direction. She actually starts to lean away when we are standing still. The only time I pick her up is when she absolutely refuses to come with me, and at that point treats or commands won't work. She won't even react to her name. Maybe im giving off a stress signal that she can pick up on? I feel like I'm trying my best to be chill and remain calm and be patient, but it's so hard when she's stubborn to the end. Sigh!
Kudos to you for all that you have achieved with her thus far and I know that it will get better with time and patience!
One thing that helped Goro with early potty training was picking him up and carrying him outside where I needed him to pee. Because he wasn't use to the carpet he thought it was the same thing and peed on it on the way to the door. So, I would carry Hana outside and place her on the grass. I doubt she'll pee on you. Also try to take her out before you leave and take the water away if you're not going to be gone all day. If she freaks out while walking and you can't control her--pick her up and remove her from the place she's scared of. I found this worked pretty well with ChoCho.
There's a reason why Brad and Jen decided to re-home these dogs. It wasn't because they regretted getting so many dogs, but because they felt that these dogs needed a home where they would get something they couldn't give them... either it be more time or a different environment. Your family was chosen over other people.
Keep trying. It's worth it. I truly believe so! It's a long and slow process and you're barely a week into it. Things can get better, we just have to figure out how.
Play with her and interact with her as much as possible- don't give her free reign of the house? Up until 3 days ago I've shut Sachi into Wgat ever room I was in. Now she chills smack between the two rooms so and can watch me in either. Create the bond and the little wins. Also hand feed most meals.
Brad and Jen believe you and your hubby are the best they can give Hana so she is with you, you are doing absolutely everything you should and can. It takes time. Remember Brad said Hana is one of the hardiest Kais they've had. She will bounce back from this fine.
Maybe you could carry her to a low stress place to potty (a small patch is just fine for now). Somewhere away from the things that scare her the most?
I agree with @WrylyBrindle- can you crate her at work or friends/family when you cannot be with her at home while they are doing the construction?
Make sure the martingale collar is snug enough (not tight or anything) that she can't back out of it and then (like said above) have the harness too for backup.
Are there any forum members that live in your area that could babysit while you work while they remodel next door? If you lived in Alabama I would gladly help out!
You can do this!!
But you will get through this, and so will she. It's not easy, but hang in there!
I have a fearful Shiba who has serious issues with noise. And she's epileptic too, so she sometimes has had seizures which I believe were simply triggered by stress. I have found that the DAP diffuser and the thundershirt help. They don't cure the fearfulness, but they take the edge off. DAP is pretty subtle and will not work alone, but I think it makes the thundershirt more effective. I also give her melatonin, which helps her calm too. (In her case, she also take phenobarbital which also helps a lot, but that's for her seizures).
In the worst case scenario, you could ask a vet for a mild sedative to get her through this. My vet describes the effect of the sedatives like this: they take the edge off of a scary trigger, until the dog has a few experiences were the triggering thing was not so scary, and eventually, they start to lose their fear of the scary thing. We've seen this with our girl: she was terrified of thunder, and we used a sedative for her, and she would curl up and sleep. Eventually, we didn't have to give her the sedative, but she still would curl up and sleep during thunderstorms.
If you do this, acepromazine, a common sedative, is usually NOT the best choice for dogs with noise phobias, because apparently it may make them more sensitive to sound, but unable to act on that fear, so for some animals can exacerbate the problem. I will tell you, however, that we give Ace to our girl, because none of the other sedatives we tried worked on her at all (they made her hyper and aggressive). So even with one that is not ideal, we've seen some good reactions with her. Like others have said, you never know what is going to work with an individual dog, and in our case, something that is usually not ideal has worked very well.
Good luck to you, and I'm sorry that it's such rough going right now.
This may be a far off shot. Maybe there is a doggie day care or center in your area that has "special play time" for more sensitive dogs. I am wondering if maybe this would help to pull her through for dog to dog interaction and bridging acclimation. At this point since you are not able to really walk Hana great distances I am thinking that her pent up negative energy is going into wigging out and overly dwelling since she can't expend it appropriately and there aren't any dogs in the house to assist with this. (Dap is a good idea, as is lavender and rosemary sprigs or oils that can be obtained a local health food markets. They can be put on a bandana if you are worried about applying on the coat directly).
I would call around to see if trainer can help you, not to train but to possibly offer a safe dog to pair with to get you guys over the hump.
If you are in up state NY, I would seek the help of Suzanne Clothier. She has pretty good track record and tips in regard to stress and dogs http://www.suzanneclothier.com/content/consultations
Also for anyone dealing with similar issues the following may help.
http://flyingdogpress.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FDP&Product_Code=AFADVD&Category_Code=V&utm_source=SuzanneClothier.com&utm_campaign=0d05f742a3-Arousal_Anxiety_and_Fear_DVD_Release10_7_2012&utm_medium=email
Good luck
Snf
She will learn to deal with the noise inside, just be consistent and unemotional. If she has a true panic moment inside, put her in a crate with a sheet over it and call it good for the night. She will eat when she's hungry.
Perhaps continue to keep a harness on her with a second leash (just to grab on to in case), during potty walks, in addition to walking her on a martingale. Patience pays off in spades with Kai!
So last night, walking has improved. I used only the harness because she was most comfortable in it, but I tried tossing the treat towards the direction I wanted her to go everytime she froze, and that seems to be working. She would get distracted from whatever made her pause and would go after the treat, then resume walking. Sometimes calling her would do the trick, but sometimes she needs the treat toss to get her motivated. Sometimes multiple treat tosses in a row. Either way, I feel like it's an improvement because I didn't have to pick her up to get her home.
I am still getting a thundershirt for her today. Probably an XS or an S. Not sure which size would be better, but I'm waiting for Brad or Jen's response to see which would be better.
I can't take her to work with me because I work in the middle of downtown, and the traffic noise, and many people in my studio would totally freak her out. Taking her to a new location is also a big deal.
It's like choosing the lesser of two evils when deciding between leaving her at home, covering her crate with a thick blanket and putting music on, or taking her to my inlaws where it is quiet but a new environment which is also extremely stressful for her.
I chose to take her to the in laws (no one is home and it is quiet but my husband is there to take care of her today) and of course, she loses control of her bowel movement and almost poops in the car, and again immediately as she enters the house.
She is SO afraid of new places, that right now, taking her a daycare, or even obedience class (which I feel is necessary for her - to socialize and give her confidence) is almost out of the question.
How does one go about conditioning a dog who's afraid of new places, but needs to go to new places? Is flooding the only way with lots of treats?
We are taking her to a friend's house tonight, so that she will at least get an introduction to her place, before possibly dropping her off the next morning if my husband needs to go to work.
Again, this is almost equally as stressful, and I don't know which is worse, but at the same time, I want her to get used to going to new places.
Everyone has suggested lots of great ideas and I will probably try them all if not, do my best to, there are just so many things I need to work on with her, that it's also a little overwhelming for me. Damn construction making it so complicated.
I think the biggest problem right now is making her comfortable going to new places. I know it will probably take lots of time and patience as well, but given the circumstances, she needs to either start going to classes, or be okay with going to a friend's home to get away from the constant construction noise. Does anyone have any tips for that?
I feel like all I do is come here to beg for advice, and I have nothing to give in return. Everyones' response gives me hope and it's so encouraging it really helps me mentally and emotionally as well. I am really really grateful and hope that I can return the favor to someone else one day.
@cdenney @sjp051993 @Hinata23 @WrylyBrindle @Kuma123 @shibamistress @StaticNfuzz @lindsayt
Like just crossing your doorway? Just approaching the car? Before approaching the new home's doorway?
The problem is, how patient do I stay until I decide I need to go to work? I would love to stay work on it patiently, but it's so hard with a tight schedule.
See what Brad and Jen have to say since they know hana best. I somewhat agree about getting her adjusted to home first, but if home is not really a safe space at this point and it's out of your control you have to have a back up plan. You have to do what you can for what you are in control of, so if you have to bite the bullet like you are doing I would take her to other quite location like friends, parents or in-laws if need be (with crate and blanket) if it has minimal chaos and they can keep her in escape proof situation. At first any place will probably cause the poops or what we call the second poops usually occurring after arrival. Being aware of that is half the battle so you can work in elimination schedule upon destination arrival and again once back home. She may always be a second pooper but it may be less severe with more acclimation and time.
As far as "training"/day care center, it really depends on the center and the approach of those helping you. Quick fyi, I have a go to person here for dogs that need acclimation and they have safe dogs and we start out one on one in an escape proof area for any new dogs coming in. Of course and eval is done before any introductions are made to make sure the dog taking it in is ok first. Sometimes we just hang out and leave. We go in baby steps. A center that allows for baby steps is a big asset. They are out there but you have to dig to find them. We have been where you are with some rescues and did manage to get the dogs over it. Hang in there and see how it goes...
Snf
I am waiting on Brad and Jen's advice, and see what they have to say, but in the meantime, I guess I just have to do what I can do.
In terms of acclimation, is it just a matter of repetition and positive reinforcement? Of course, assuming she's okay getting in the car, it's mostly getting out in a new location that really scares her.
I'll do some research and look for center that is sensitive to sensitive dogs.
Baby steps! Thank you~
I might have missed it, but do you have a small backyard or an attached garage that you can designate as a potty area?
I came across this article when I was researching tips and advice on conditioning to new environments. It seems like it's mostly parallel to what everyone was saying here. Just thought I'd share it.
I like martingales, but have noticed with kai pups that a harness is better when they are nervous. I use a martingale for training with Mika, but never walk her with it. She's too young, and when she does get scared, the tension flips her out even more. She does not react with a harness to the same stimuli.
Also, I would not worry about taking her new places at all yet unless you absolutely have to. For my scaredy girl, I finally decided that she was less stressed NOT going places, so I take her for rides, but don't get her out of the car, and don't actually take her new places anymore, including to training classes, where she'd just shut down. She's different, of course as her fear is not from just being moved, but is a symptom of chronic conditions she has, but I think its ok if dogs don't enjoy new places. There are times they have to adjust, but my decision with my girl has been not to force her if I don't have to, and mostly I don't have to. With a very fearful dog, it's like Lindsay said: baby steps. Tiny, tiny steps. And I think Hana is not congenitally fearful (if there is such a thing!) as Bel tends more towards, but Hana is just have a very hard time adjusting to her radically different situation. In time, she'll probably be able to go new places.
Positive reinforcement, yes. Sticking to a routine is helpful and also creating a safe space so a dog does not feel the need to be on alert and is able to decompress.
About repetition, it depends on the dog and situation. Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I know not a definitive answer. : /
More importantly it is understanding body language, context and managing before a dog gets to it's elevated threshold and having a good idea where exactly that threshold is. This can vary from day to day, place and activity. I know more vagueness. That's why it's so hard to give advice blindly without seeing a dog in action.
A lot of what you will do is going to be trial and error as you work through it, as long as she does not freak out too much. Guiding her to reach beyond her boundary when she is somewhat ready to. It does get better but it takes time and some creative thinking in order that one set of senses do not over ride the others pushing an animal over their individual limits.
I hope this makes some sense even if it isn't direct steps. : )
Snf
@shibamistress I will definitely do my best to not pressure her too much and move in baby steps. I also think she's UBER sensitive she's having a harder time adjusting, but so far she's been (what I think is) slowwwwwwwwllly improving. It's like... two steps back, one step forwards? But at least there's a step forward in there, and sometimes it's no step back and one step forward, so it sort of evens out?? How is Bel when she goes to the vet? Is there any place other than home she likes?
@StaticNfuzz Thank you, and yes, I'm definitely learning to listen to her body language more, and am beginning to learn where her threshold is. It's confusing though, because she will take and eat the treats, but she won't really stop being stressed if that makes any sense? It's like fear hasn't completely taken over, but there are no signs of her getting comfortable. I wish I could carry everyone in my pocket so you can all help me in person, but in miniature so you can physically see her and help. haha (creepy)