I've got to respectfully disagree with losing the martingale. Better that they freak on a martingale than get loose. Better that the person goes with the dog, walking away from what's freaking them out, in order to create slack. Dogs including Kai have escaped from harnesses.
In addition, Hana's also not as young as Mika.
Maybe there's a way you could attach the martingale to the harness rather than the martingale to the leash so it serves as a backup.
Wow those are some great pictures! Hana is so pretty, especially in that first picture.
Sorry about the delay in replying about the turkey, been dying from the flu/walking pneumonia/something. I just buy it either boneless and cut into chunks or buy legs and hold it while she enjoys chewing on the meat and thick tendons (which are awesome for cleaning their teeth). It just overall seems to have a calming effect on the stomach compared to kibble, huge improvement in farts and poo smells too.
You've obviously got her best interest at heart, there's nothing to be ashamed of when asking advice. Especially over a new dog that needs the help adjusting. That construction timing is so crappy. instead of bouncing between three houses you should probly pick one and bring her crate with her when you drop her off (if not doing so already). Sounds like so many things are happening it sounds like she just needs some solid stability for this week of construction. I'd just focus on making her life and schedule as stable and consistent as possible until the construction is over. Once that's done and you've got her 100% at home, she's settled and more calm, only then would it seem best to start training her. When she's in a constant state of anxiety it's doubtful much training will stick with her anyways. Whatever you do that's out of the expected norm (ex. carrying her to/from car, carrying her to use the bathroom, etc) isn't going to be etched permanently into her and you can transition into walking to the car, etc, once your living situation is normal.
She'll pick up on your emotions too btw, so don't overstress and freak yourself out over every small detail Just focus on keeping everything as calming for her as possible, and routine is calming to dogs.
I agree on not using the martingale and using her webmaster for the walks instead. @ayk the Webmaster is pretty much escape proof when tightened properly. Not even my Shiba escape artist could get out of it, and he'd gotten out of everything I ever put on him lol. It doesn't encourage continued and escalated freak outs either which could end up with esophagus damage.
No harness or collar is ever escape proof. Tora can slip off a webmaster. That girl is a escape artist. She is currently walking around minus all harness, and collars. The key is to find what the dog is comfortable in and gives you the most control. In Ritsu's case he was freaking in the harness and I had no control. I switched to using just his martingale and the freak outs stopped and I had control and a way to communicate with him. All my puppies are trained with martingale collars. Everyone has their preference. Go with what works best for you and the dog.
I was thinkin about this at work regarding new places. Have your friend meet her at your house so she is familiar with the smell and associates it with welcome/nice person. See if your friend can bring over a used sock or somesuch to put in her crate and make her smell familiar. Tonight when you take her over have her walk up to the house at her pace treat it all the way. Open the door and let her stand in the threshold and aquaint herself. Crouch with treats, not blocking her in but as a support. She will probably survey for awhile. Have your friend be gone or deeper in the house so its not overwhelmibg?
Also celebrate every small win. For yourself, it shows improvement. It sounds like my little girl and yours have similar tendencies. Just go slow and take deep breaths. I loaded an e book on my phone when walking so when there is a long stop I'm not timing her surveys, giving her time to do what she has to to be happy. for scheduling when walks were bad I was giving us an hour every walk. So every 6-7 hours we were out for an hour including waking up an hour earlier, eating and sleeping an hour later. Now for our basic route we are down to 20-30 min. That way there is no rush or pressure.
I always use martingales when out of the house, with the harness if needed as a backup. Akuma was eventually fine with just a martingale (Silverfoot), but when he was a puppy or when going someplace very crowded, I walked him on 2 leashes and a harness just in case at first. They can back out of things so fast, it's good to have a backup. I also used mendotta slip leads as my back up leash. They can't slip those.
Yeah, I'd use a martingale plus harness for awhile. I was going to say the same thing about the webmaster as Stacey did--no harness or collar is escape proof. I think one Casey (Sunyata)'s dogs got out of a webmaster too. And losing a Kai is absolutely a worst case scenario, so better to have the harness and the collar rather than just one.
It may be that you end up with just the harness, but until she's not freaking out, I'd do both.
regarding Bel...she enjoys going for walks. She enjoys going for walks in new places, even, as long as there are not strangers that she must encounter. So she likes to hike in the woods or along trails. But she does not like to go to any places where she will have to deal with people she doesn't know, and even people she does know, other than us, are suspicious to her. I used to take her to a cafe with a patio near a dog bakery where she could have a treat, then I realized she was miserable--just shut down entirely--so now we don't do it anymore.
oh, yeah, the other thing I meant to say is that pumpkin is good for diarrhea. Just canned pumpkin.
@ayk Hana is only around three months older than Mika. Mika can slip a martingale but not a Puppia. Not even crazy Mei could slip a Puppia when she flies into the air, flips, and goes down to back out of it.
The thing is, the owner needs to feel safe with what they are using. It didn't sound like she was comfortable with the martingale and that's an issue. I would still lose it or double up.
@thegela Really it's not about Hana. It's about taking care of you so you can be comfortable and more confident. I truly believe that dogs read our energy. If you're worried, she will be. You need to do what makes you the most at ease with her, and hopefully suggestions that we make are helping you to find that place.
From what I understand Hana is a pretty solid Kai. She's just finding her place in a new home, with new people, and for the first time without a bunch of Kai's to support her. She will learn that you will be her comfort when she's stressed out. You'll get there.
@ayk - luckily she doesn't really back out when she has her freak out moments. Her freak outs usually look like this: freeze with her ears pinned back, wild look in her eyes, will slightly lean away when I gently tug, turn around and run low to the ground in the opposite direction and PULL HARD. And because she mostly runs low to the ground pulling really hard, I feel like it might be safer and less abrasive with the webmaster. But that isn't to say that I don't want to use the martingale. I eventually want to use it when her tenancies to "run away" die down.
@cezieg aww thank you~ yeah she's sooo pretty~ Such a pretty pretty girl! We adore her so much, and she's super sweet (indoors) - she loves to be petted, she loves the occasional belly rub, she LOVES head scratches and falls asleep when I massage her. Of course, there are times when she sort of "backs away" when I go to pet her, but that's usually after a freak out and she's "upset" at me and forgets who I am. After a little bit of time, she'll forgive me with her tail wagging.
Regarding the turkey, do you freeze it before you give them raw meat to kill the germs? Or is it okay to slice it up straight from the store and give it to them?
@shibamistress oh canned pumpkin! That's interesting. The question is, will she eat it? Bel is like the opposite of Hana, for the fact that Hana likes meeting people, and is very sweet and friendly, (as long as it's inside our house because outside, she's on wild mode) but hates going to new places (so far). Very interesting.
@tjbart17 Yeah she is a solid Kai. I really do think I need to find her a dog friend to help her adjust. It's a little hard making dog friends right now though. We are also a little new to the area and haven't had a chance to make neighbor friends yet. Altho Toronto has this thing where while we are generally polite with each other, everyone keeps to themselves and minds their own business. Not very outgoing or friendly.
Jen has suggested we just crate her while the construction is going on and play music, and given how she reacted when we tried to move her, we will probably stick to that until she's comfortable enough to start going to new places. I think she's already not as stressed as before. She's not panting heavily or turn her head everytime she hears something.
I DID get her a thundershirt though, and I think she's calmed down a little. She's seems to be less anxious, so we will keep it on her for walks and for the duration of the construction and we'll see how it goes. I'm also waiting for a calming collar to come in the mail so I will also let everyone know how she does with that.
Jen has also suggested Xanax from the vet, but I think I'll hold off on that until it's my very last option. So far she seems to be okay, and I'd like to keep her at home to give her some stability and consistency.
Her eating pattern has changed drastically. She doesn't really have an appetite but she will eat treats. I feel like her taste buds might have been spoiled? She'll eat a few kibbles then she'll lose interest and walk away. Last night she wouldn't have dinner till past midnight. A little worried about that because I'd like to keep her on a strict and regular schedule, but she won't let me! :S
Also, just wanted to thank everyone again for your continued support and help. I will definitely keep everyone updated on how things go this week.
If she doesn't eat in five minutes take it up, she will eat next meal. It sounds like you gave some baby wins! That's great! I've lived at my house for a year and never met one of my neighbors (75 house town house complex) until walking Sachi now I know 5 people on the regular, other dog people. Perhaps sitting in your courtyard would help don't walk just let her chill and listen and see with no expectations so she can acclimate? Also that way you'll meet your neighbors.
Also try the martingale and harness just put the martingale on a foot or two longer lead so there is no pressure or tension, it is just if she slips the harness it would tighten.
@cdenney Yeah, I've been taking her bowl away, but she seems hungry at irregular times, which means even more irregular meals. Do I starve her until the next proper meal time? Sitting in the courtyard isn't possible with Hana, hahah but I will try! I know she's curious, and the fact that she isn't familiar is probably even more scary, but I know she's still curious. I guess that's a good thing. And yes~~~~ small wins!! Super baby steps for sure. It's just SO emotionally draining, and we get SO sad outside of the house away from her, (we spill our emotions out when we are away from her, haha) but it might get easier for us too now that we are getting familiar with knowing just HOW patient we have to be with her. I will also try the martingale with the harness as a backup. The longer lead sounds like a good idea.
The short answer is yes, and keep to a schedule. You can try different locations to see if there are certain areas she feels safer (ie. bedroom with door closed and no audience) but then keep to the routine. Just so you know, it took nearly 8 months before my fearful dog developed a healthy bowl-cleaning appetite.
If she's hungry at irregular times, seize the chance to do some home-training with her. Itty-bitty treats the size of a grain of rice so she only whets her appetite instead of ruining her for dinner.
The least stressful exercise for my fearful dog is "touch" which is him touching my open palm with his nose. No other conditions attached to it like grabbing the collar or petting.
@ayk oh~ that's a good idea! I'll try that~ Usually when I try to do anything, she will just wag her tail at me, and gives me that look that she knows I'm asking her to do something, but she won't do it. She definitely won't "sit" for me. :S
@thegela Sachi has yet to do anything but what she wants. No sitting. We are working on touch. I feed her half by hand and the rest in a bowl in the back of her crate. Try a crate bowl?
@cdenney oh how do you work on touch with Sachi? If I feed Hana by hand, she will gladly take a couple, and sometimes that will be enough to get her started on her bowl, but lately it's like she only takes it because I offer, but then will lose interest in her meal very quickly. I tried moving her bowl into the crate, but she will only eat it later when she's hungry. I feel like she just doesn't have an appetite except at irregular hours. When she hears me pour kibble into her bowl, she will race downstairs because she knows it's her food, but she won't eat it till later. So weird. So I have to take it away and feed her later. :S
She used to wolf down everything so fast I used a kong to slow her down. But eventually she lost interest in the kong unless I put some sausage bits in there, and rub sausage around the rim of the hole. She tends to "give up" faster these days or have no interest at all, maybe because she doesn't have as much confidence in herself? But I know she has it in her to keep going till the end, she just needs the confidence to do so.
Dogs are weird especially these ones. Half the time I think Sachi doesn't like me (keep in mind she won't let me touch her but we are improving I can leash unleash and remove her tags collar) but just deigns to reside with me as I have smelly treats with me at all times and she gets them when she checks in.touch started with a smelly treat in a fist. When she would nose my hand she would get it. Them we slowly added on the command touch. If she doesn't do it in an appropriate time treat goes away until I restart. Now on walks if I squat bevause her mind is elsewhere for whatever reason she approaches me I say touch she gets her treat and we move on. I don't know why hana isn't eating. Try incorporatating raw like an egg every 3 meal or @ ceizeg turkey idea. It will garner her interest. I still feed about half the meals in entirety by hand. If she doesn't want it from me she doesn't eat. Missing one meal doesn't hurt especially since she is treated with lowcal treats on the regular. You all are doing well, I know it doesn't seem like much but slow and steady wins the race. Also keep expectations lown mine today is don't bolt when startled on a walk, she's much better but got tangled in her leash and hopped out of the tangle and looked at me like you didn't see that, but didn't bolt when constrained huge improvement. U know what you are talking about with the low to the ground and pulling. The best you can do is try and circle her back to you to stop treat so she stops pulling and goes at yiur pace. This will take a fair bit of time to be successful.
Sorry this is so screwy I'm on my phone at work. Also if you want to reach out and verbalize please feel free to call me, ill pick up of not at work.
Well I usually buy in bulk and freeze most of it, but give the first piece straight from the store. A healthy dog's digestive system is designed for raw meat and will kill off bacteria. Good example is feral dogs eating rotten food from dumpsters, they're just fine. Turkey is the most bland of all the meats, so it's where I started with my raw feeding. I started with giving turkey every three days then every other day to let their digestive systems build up in potency, since they're stunted from the ease of processing kibble, which is designed to be digested quickly and easily. I'd just leave a piece in the fridge overnight to thaw out, by the next day it's mostly thawed, the dogs seem to like the extra chewiness of the semi-frozen bits lol.
If you're giving her a lot of treats that could be upsetting her tummy. ChoCho sometimes gets in one of those "I don't feel like eating" moods and I just take the food away and give it to her after her morning walk. If she doesn't want to eat in the morning than she might just need to go to the bathroom really bad. I would try salmon fish oil. Dogs love it.
@thegela You wrote, "luckily she doesn't really back out when she has her freak out moments. Her freak outs usually look like this: freeze with her ears pinned back, wild look in her eyes, will slightly lean away when I gently tug, turn around and run low to the ground in the opposite direction and PULL HARD. "
Rather than tug on the leash, even if it's ever so slight, you may want to join her low to the ground and comfort her speaking softly and giving her some rubs on her rear end until she calms down. If she's walking towards something scary, then turn around with her and go back the other way.
@tjbart17 Yeah, I have also done that, and it seems better for her. Sometimes tho, as you say, when she goes towards something dangerous like a busy street, I will calmly pick her up and walk in the opposite direction. Thank you!!
Just wanted to quickly update everyone on how Hana is doing. The thundershirt is doing its' job and she is way calmer. I think despite the construction, she likes being home, and probably needed some sense of stability. I've left her in our bedroom with the crate open, covered in a blanket with classical music playing, and she has her bully stick to keep her company.
Walks are different. It's hard to get her outside at all now, but once she's out, she calmly potties and hasn't had a "wild" moment yet. She occasionally still needs coaxing, but she is definitely doing better. I have scheduled a doggie date with a little yorkie this Saturday in our home so we'll see how that goes!
hurray for the hana house on little improvements!
Also have started "touch" with her with hotdog bits. I feel like she loves hotdog too much it distracts her. haha
Comments
In addition, Hana's also not as young as Mika.
Maybe there's a way you could attach the martingale to the harness rather than the martingale to the leash so it serves as a backup.
Sorry about the delay in replying about the turkey, been dying from the flu/walking pneumonia/something. I just buy it either boneless and cut into chunks or buy legs and hold it while she enjoys chewing on the meat and thick tendons (which are awesome for cleaning their teeth). It just overall seems to have a calming effect on the stomach compared to kibble, huge improvement in farts and poo smells too.
You've obviously got her best interest at heart, there's nothing to be ashamed of when asking advice. Especially over a new dog that needs the help adjusting. That construction timing is so crappy. instead of bouncing between three houses you should probly pick one and bring her crate with her when you drop her off (if not doing so already). Sounds like so many things are happening it sounds like she just needs some solid stability for this week of construction. I'd just focus on making her life and schedule as stable and consistent as possible until the construction is over. Once that's done and you've got her 100% at home, she's settled and more calm, only then would it seem best to start training her. When she's in a constant state of anxiety it's doubtful much training will stick with her anyways. Whatever you do that's out of the expected norm (ex. carrying her to/from car, carrying her to use the bathroom, etc) isn't going to be etched permanently into her and you can transition into walking to the car, etc, once your living situation is normal.
She'll pick up on your emotions too btw, so don't overstress and freak yourself out over every small detail
I agree on not using the martingale and using her webmaster for the walks instead. @ayk the Webmaster is pretty much escape proof when tightened properly. Not even my Shiba escape artist could get out of it, and he'd gotten out of everything I ever put on him lol. It doesn't encourage continued and escalated freak outs either which could end up with esophagus damage.
It may be that you end up with just the harness, but until she's not freaking out, I'd do both.
regarding Bel...she enjoys going for walks. She enjoys going for walks in new places, even, as long as there are not strangers that she must encounter. So she likes to hike in the woods or along trails. But she does not like to go to any places where she will have to deal with people she doesn't know, and even people she does know, other than us, are suspicious to her. I used to take her to a cafe with a patio near a dog bakery where she could have a treat, then I realized she was miserable--just shut down entirely--so now we don't do it anymore.
oh, yeah, the other thing I meant to say is that pumpkin is good for diarrhea. Just canned pumpkin.
The thing is, the owner needs to feel safe with what they are using. It didn't sound like she was comfortable with the martingale and that's an issue. I would still lose it or double up.
@thegela Really it's not about Hana. It's about taking care of you so you can be comfortable and more confident. I truly believe that dogs read our energy. If you're worried, she will be. You need to do what makes you the most at ease with her, and hopefully suggestions that we make are helping you to find that place.
From what I understand Hana is a pretty solid Kai. She's just finding her place in a new home, with new people, and for the first time without a bunch of Kai's to support her. She will learn that you will be her comfort when she's stressed out. You'll get there.
@cezieg aww thank you~ yeah she's sooo pretty~ Such a pretty pretty girl! We adore her so much, and she's super sweet (indoors) - she loves to be petted, she loves the occasional belly rub, she LOVES head scratches and falls asleep when I massage her. Of course, there are times when she sort of "backs away" when I go to pet her, but that's usually after a freak out and she's "upset" at me and forgets who I am. After a little bit of time, she'll forgive me with her tail wagging.
Regarding the turkey, do you freeze it before you give them raw meat to kill the germs? Or is it okay to slice it up straight from the store and give it to them?
@shibamistress oh canned pumpkin! That's interesting. The question is, will she eat it? Bel is like the opposite of Hana, for the fact that Hana likes meeting people, and is very sweet and friendly, (as long as it's inside our house because outside, she's on wild mode) but hates going to new places (so far). Very interesting.
@tjbart17 Yeah she is a solid Kai. I really do think I need to find her a dog friend to help her adjust. It's a little hard making dog friends right now though. We are also a little new to the area and haven't had a chance to make neighbor friends yet. Altho Toronto has this thing where while we are generally polite with each other, everyone keeps to themselves and minds their own business. Not very outgoing or friendly.
Jen has suggested we just crate her while the construction is going on and play music, and given how she reacted when we tried to move her, we will probably stick to that until she's comfortable enough to start going to new places. I think she's already not as stressed as before. She's not panting heavily or turn her head everytime she hears something.
I DID get her a thundershirt though, and I think she's calmed down a little. She's seems to be less anxious, so we will keep it on her for walks and for the duration of the construction and we'll see how it goes. I'm also waiting for a calming collar to come in the mail so I will also let everyone know how she does with that.
Jen has also suggested Xanax from the vet, but I think I'll hold off on that until it's my very last option. So far she seems to be okay, and I'd like to keep her at home to give her some stability and consistency.
Her eating pattern has changed drastically. She doesn't really have an appetite but she will eat treats. I feel like her taste buds might have been spoiled? She'll eat a few kibbles then she'll lose interest and walk away. Last night she wouldn't have dinner till past midnight. A little worried about that because I'd like to keep her on a strict and regular schedule, but she won't let me! :S
Also, just wanted to thank everyone again for your continued support and help. I will definitely keep everyone updated on how things go this week.
Sitting in the courtyard isn't possible with Hana, hahah but I will try! I know she's curious, and the fact that she isn't familiar is probably even more scary, but I know she's still curious. I guess that's a good thing. And yes~~~~ small wins!! Super baby steps for sure. It's just SO emotionally draining, and we get SO sad outside of the house away from her, (we spill our emotions out when we are away from her, haha) but it might get easier for us too now that we are getting familiar with knowing just HOW patient we have to be with her. I will also try the martingale with the harness as a backup. The longer lead sounds like a good idea.
If she's hungry at irregular times, seize the chance to do some home-training with her. Itty-bitty treats the size of a grain of rice so she only whets her appetite instead of ruining her for dinner.
The least stressful exercise for my fearful dog is "touch" which is him touching my open palm with his nose. No other conditions attached to it like grabbing the collar or petting.
Sorry this is so screwy I'm on my phone at work. Also if you want to reach out and verbalize please feel free to call me, ill pick up of not at work.
Rather than tug on the leash, even if it's ever so slight, you may want to join her low to the ground and comfort her speaking softly and giving her some rubs on her rear end until she calms down. If she's walking towards something scary, then turn around with her and go back the other way.
@kuma123 thank you
Just wanted to quickly update everyone on how Hana is doing. The thundershirt is doing its' job and she is way calmer. I think despite the construction, she likes being home, and probably needed some sense of stability. I've left her in our bedroom with the crate open, covered in a blanket with classical music playing, and she has her bully stick to keep her company.
Walks are different. It's hard to get her outside at all now, but once she's out, she calmly potties and hasn't had a "wild" moment yet. She occasionally still needs coaxing, but she is definitely doing better. I have scheduled a doggie date with a little yorkie this Saturday in our home so we'll see how that goes!
hurray for the hana house on little improvements!
Also have started "touch" with her with hotdog bits. I feel like she loves hotdog too much it distracts her. haha