Hana: updated april 4 (with spam!)

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  • edited December 2012
    @thegela Is Hana spayed?

    She's really a cute little princess.
  • edited December 2012
    @ttddinh woo hoo for thundershirts!! :) - she was napping when i took that one! hehe

    @tjbart17 no she isn't~ I left it open for possible breeding purposes. Jen gave me the option to spay before she came over, but because she is from out-crossed lines she said Hana can be valuable to keep intact so I didn't want to burn that bridge right away. I know it takes a lot of money and effort to import. I am interested, and the option is open, so maybe after Hana gets more comfortable here, and starts classes, I will see and learn more about breeding from Jen, or maybe coordinate something with Yamabushi. (I don't know, just brainstorming here... haha) Either way, I don't plan on doing anything without the guidance of Brad or Jen or the forum here for that matter. :)
  • edited December 2012
    @thegala When did she last go into heat? Mika all of a sudden didn't want to go outside on walks when she was about to go into heat and wouldn't go into the backyard. She peed on leash in front, and would only go out with me. I think Hana would've already gone into heat before now though.
  • @tjbart17 Oh interesting! I wanna say recently but I'll have to ask Jen!!
  • Yes, spay her. It will help.
  • If I remember correctly both her and sachi were recently in season.
  • She looks so sweet! Glad the Thundershirt is working! Keep up the good work with her!
  • Oh sorry... I didn't read the comment to tjbart17. Spaying her will probably help her settle down, but if Jen and Brad have expressed interest in breeding her than I would take it under consideration. :)
  • edited December 2012
    Hello! Quick update about Hana's weekend doggy date with the Yorkie:

    My friend's Yorkie is SUPER friendly, so she was obviously totally fine meeting Hana, but Hana was all like "who is this little runt?" She did a warning growl, (which totally BLEW me away because this is the FIRST time I've ever heard so much as a peep from her! - altho she does occasionally whine - veerrrry little) but after maybe 15 minutes or so, she decided she would tolerate the little girl and did some butt sniffing, and even let her (Mia) jump on Hana's face and stuff (which is something Mia tends to do when she gets excited). They didn't really play, altho Mia was DYING to play, Hana just walked around, sniffing and letting Mia sniff her, and I guess in general being okay with her and getting to know her.

    We took them for a walk, and Hana's recovery improved. She was still pretty nervous and freaked out, and still did a lot of "back tracking" when she's unsure of where we're going (which is the usual route) but maybe it's because Mia was there, she recovered faster and continued walking. Usually she'll want to go in a weird direction or back in the direction we came from, and she'll lean hard, and be really really stubborn, but she didn't do that this time.

    So overall, I'd say her visit with Mia was successful and we will plan another play date. Now that they know each other, we're hoping she'll continue to get comfortable and maybe even start to play a little.

    We continue to be very patient with her on walks, and even started to be more "firm" and "matter of fact" with her when she gets all weirded out, and her recovering time is slowly getting faster.

    The great news is that she is very good with kids. We will NEVER relax when they're in the same room together, but she's very patient, and even a little playful with them. She tolerates their occasional squeals, and a little bit of chasing, but her body language shows that she's not stressed or that they have breached her threshold. She shows interest in kids, and will smell their (probably stinky) bums, licks, even wags a little.
    The funny thing is, my niece (2 yrs) did this thing where she was on all fours and sort of bounced her upper body up and down and her hands would pat the ground, which Hana interpreted that as play bowing, and returned the bows and got a little excited which was super cute. :)

    Anyway! Positive baby steps! :) Happy monday all!
  • Hello! I need a little advice!
    Hana is doing well both physically and emotionally. She's recovering well from her teeth procedures and she's learning basic commands from me. All is well except that she HATES going outside, which means potty is a BIG DEAL. She's afraid of outside in general (still not used to the city?), but she knows when we're getting ready to take her out to potty, and she will actually run away when we pick up the harness. It's kind of cute, because its like trying to chase down your kid for a bath, but she always makes it hard for us to take her out. She puts her "head down" so we can't slip it over her heard, and when we finally get it on, she will sometimes run away. When we have the door open, she'll lie down in front of the door so she can't be "pulled", and sometimes she'll "lean back" away from the door making it SUPER CLEAR that she loathes going outside.

    Once we're out, it's an even mix of ears up and down, tail neutral and down. It really depends on her mood, but at this point we haven't even been able to get past the courtyard for a few weeks. She'll just want to circle around, and that's it. So "walks" are hardly walks and are officially 3 minutes - MAX. And encouraging her to go further beyond the courtyard is basically her putting up a little hissy fit again. She'll do the same thing where she'll "lie down" or "lean away" from the direction we want to go. Sometimes she's so on edge, she'll even growl at my husband because it's like she "forgets" who he is. It's really really strange, because once we're back home, safe inside, she'll all happy and loveable again.

    So while she's improved at home, where walks/potty is concerned, it's a HUGE step back. Does anyone have any idea why she hates going outside, or what I can do to help her LOVE it? Most dogs I know (and all my past dogs) get SUPER excited when it's time to go out, so I'm struggling with how to deal with this.

    Also, we're taking her to a "shy dog" class to help her with her confidence.

  • edited January 2013
    Goro is scared of the harness, and from what Lisa @shibamistress tells me, so is his brother. When Goro sees me grabbing his harness he runs and hide. Then he freezes, ears back, tail down until we get out the door... There's a chances she does not like the harness. I would not switch to a collar for now, though...given that she's iffy outside. I feel that the harness is more secure.

    When she lays down, pick her up and carry her outside. Sometimes you got to do what you got to do. I don't even know how many times I had to carry ChoCho home... and it was usually 4 blocks away.

    It took ChoCho a few weeks to be comfortable with Jeff (my husband) and be ok with him every where. At first she was only ok with him inside our bedroom, but scared of him every where else. I had him walk her by himself at night (I walked her in the mornings) and she got over it with time. Some dogs just have a hard time generalizing.

    If she's doesn't want to go in one direction because she's scared of something, just cross the street or let her go where she wants to go for a bit... unless it's back to the house hahaha. When I first got ChoCho I let her take me where she wanted to go. I was at the point where anything that could make her happy I would do! She was so scared and miserable that if walking in circles made her happy I'd do it. Another thing, if she's scared of the city, take her to a park if there's one near you or walk her in the suburbs where there's not a ton of traffic of people or cars. I liked to encouraged ChoCho to explore. Tree, patch of grass, rock, breach, stick, bike on a lawn... anything. If she wanted to sniff it, I was on it! Little by little she became more confident and willing to explore and experience new things.
  • edited January 2013
    @hinata23 it's weird because when we first got her, she seemed a little more cooperative when we had to go out. I also feel like the harness is more secure, and given that she will occasionally "freak out" we'll continue to use the harness. But I don't know if it's the harness...

    When we first went on walks, she was willing to go out onto the street to walk, and we even started to walk a certain route. I would also do the same thing where I let her go where she wanted to go, and smell things and explore. At first, I even let her turn back towards home because I didn't want to push her too much. After a couple weeks, I started to be a little more "firm" and "matter of fact" when going on walks with her, and at first she was such a terror and I also had to carry Hana a few blocks home because there was a week of instances where she refused to go back towards home, (haha) but I mean, it was like.. inchworm improvements. Sometimes bad days, but sometimes okay days.

    These days, she won't even go past our courtyard! Which is maybe around 800 - 1000 sq ft?? She just circles around and absolutely refuses to go beyond!

    The thing is, we're not exactly in the city with tons of traffic, we're kind of in the suburbs, but by a main road so there is some traffic, and when we used to go on our "route" it was pure residential, and cars were a minimum, but it still stressed her out.

    here's a quick rundown:

    week 1: walked long walks, and she was mostly scared and didn't know who I was, but followed me on our walks (rare loose leash instance. haha)
    at home: fine, would go into her crate to decompress

    week 2-3: occasional freak outs, (also stressful alarm and construction happened, so big setback there) have started to walk a "route", refusing to go back home, and wanted to circle around again, no harness chasing at this point, sometimes good walks, sometimes horrible walks.
    at home: sometimes got hyper like the air was invigorating and started to get zoomies,
    learned: "touch", and "paw"

    week 4 - present: running away when sees the harness, refuses to walk out the door, first time growling at Jun (husband), freaked out once for no reason (when I walked her) like she forgot who I was, refuses to go beyond our small courtyard.
    at home: comfortable, happy to hang out with us, still gets hyper sometimes but I discourage it because I'm being extra careful for her teeth, started to love working for treats - knows when I have it, and will WHINE at me to give it to her! (super cute)
    learned: "sit" and "down"



  • Yeah... I feel you. ChoCho didn't want to return to the house after walks for about 3 months. It was such a mission to get her to return.

    I don't know why she's being a pansy about going outside, but there's something that freaks her out. She could be associating it with something that scares her. Maybe something happened while on a walk that spooked her and she thinks it'll happen again.

    Have you tried taking treats with you? I would have her practice "sit" and "come" while on walks. Maybe that would distract her. Whenever I put on my treat pooch ChoCho and Goro barely pay attention to where they're walking... except when there are squirrels.

    ChoCho was such a weirdo with us at first, and still is about something some times, that nothing surprises me! hahahaha Dogs are so strange sometimes!





  • @hinata23 oh gosh. You must have amazing arms now after all that pumping shikoku. :)

    yeah we used to take treats with us, but we stopped because she was doing relatively okay, but I just started to lure her out with treats again.

    This is what happens when I give her treats outside:
    - Hana gets freaked: her eyes are wide open, and her ears are pinned upwards like a rabbit and they're tweaking around
    - I say "touch" and show her a treat
    - She touches real quick and takes the treat, and it's done in the "let's just get this over with" attitude
    - She returns to her "freaked out/wild" mode.

    She really can't focus when we're outside. It's hard to distract her. :(

    But you're right, I need to figure out what it is that's freaking her out. I'm kind of hoping it's the salt, and as soon as the PAWZ booties come in, we'll see how it goes. :S
  • Hahahaha my arms and calves looked pretty nice after 3 months! Onces she memorized all the routes home as far as a mile away I started calling my husband to pick us up. Hahaha there was no way I could carry her that far!! Even though Chocho was 30 pounds it's still quite a bit for me! I'm barely 90 lb!

    You should maybe try more than just "touch". Take her aside and have a little trick sessions (about a minute long) if you have too, until she's a bit more relaxed.
  • @hinata23 wow!! Barely 90 lbs? You are tiiiiny!! :)

    Oh yeah. Definitely gonna try the new tricks she's learned recently. She only knew touch" for a bit, but now that she knows more ill try and let u know, thanks!!
  • Try putting the harness on her at times other than when you are taking her outside. Also get an extra special treat for when she wears her harness and also for out on walk. I always use baked chicken or cheese as an extra special treat for training. It also helps for when they start to freak. They have a hard time refusing chicken and cheese. You may need to just pick her up and carry her out of the courtyard to get her over not wanting to leave the area.
  • Yeah, as Hinata23 noted, Leo is also afraid of his harness. he runs from it and tries to hide. When he has it on, he freezes. and it doesn't seem to matter where we go--even though he loves going to his classes or loves going to play with other dogs, or for walks, he still hates putting the harness and on. It doesn't matter about treats either. He'll take treats, in his harness, but it makes absolutely no difference the next time the harness goes on. He just hates it. And he seems to be getting worse, not better about it.

    He also hates the car, and does the same thing about the car--trying not to get in, running away, etc. Sometimes he will jump in on his own, but often not.

    So....I don't really have any suggestions, unfortunately, because the typical things (getting the dog used to the harness, etc) don't seem to work for us either. But it may be the running away is about the harness, not about going outside. (though it sounds like she doesn't like being outside either).

    Maybe Brad and Jen will have some suggestions. I really don't know. Kai are kind of odd dogs in some ways, because they really do have these freak outs, and then....they seem to remember things for a very long time indeed.
  • @thegela Not to be negative or anything, but I'm not sure booties will help... If anything, they might stress her out more than she already is and might add another reason why she hates getting ready for walks. Normal dogs are freaked out by them and have a hard time getting used to them. I can't image a shy/scared Kai. :\
  • @shibamistress yeah it might be that she hates the harness, but it's weird because she used to be okay when we put the harness on her. She only started to run away from it around the same time she started to hate going outside :(

    @hinata23 yeah I know she's gonna hate it, but we have no choice because Toronto streets are ridiculously riddled with salt. The city makes it a law to salt your property because if someone slips and hurts themselves, they can sue you. :( hence, every restaurant, store, owners of homes and townhouse who rent out will salt the ground religiously. Hana lifts her back leg if she's on the sidewalk too much. :(
  • She's probably learned to associate something negative with the harness or travel outside of the courtyard. For example, the vet visit.

    Stacey's idea is a good place to start. Have her wear the harness when feeding dinner.
  • @ayk you're right, she probably needs more "normal/happy/not-exciting" time when going out to recover from all the excitement she's experienced so far, and may need more time to adjust. I'm going to try that tonight and do treats and and dinner with her harness on. :)
  • That stinks... Salt could be a reason why she dislikes walks, like you said. I bet she's bothered by the smell of it too. It most not feel good on her paws if she has a little scratch or cut either... Hope all works out!
  • I know people always say that about associating something negative with harness or car rides, and it makes sense, except....when it doesn't! *lol* Why would Leo hate his harness and the car, and why would he hate his harness more, rather than less these days, when he is always going somewhere fun with it on? It's always a walk, or to his agility class which he LOVES, or to play with his dog friend, which he also enjoys?

    I think he just hates the harness! And if we leave it on in the house, it sems to get worse, because he just freezes and stays in one place, and doesn't want to eat. So far, I just keep putting it on when we need to and hope he gets passed whatever it is.....it's definitely the harness though. I put one of the Shiba's martingale on him the other day to take him to agility and he worked better in class and was calmer on the way there too. (though he still hates the car).
  • edited January 2013
    Maybe it is the stress of putting on the harness. They see the harness, they freak out, they are forced to wear it, they have negative associations with it, next time they see the harness they freak out more, are still forced to wear it, and the cycle repeats continuing to get worse. The act of putting it on them is the negative event.
  • Juno doesnt like me to put the webmaster harness on with the fabric over her head, so I rotate it so that the thin strap goes over her head and the 'back' of the harness is to the side. When her head is in the 'head hole' I get the top of the harness on her back and ask for her paw to put thru the side strap. There is a difference for her in my approach. I also do this step last, so we go right outside after, which links harness->outside with no inbetween steps like waiting around for me to zip up my coat or find keys or whatever. Harness, then GO! fun! no standing around dwelling on it...

    I am not sure the way we put on the harness can be linked all the way to not leaving the courtyard though...poor girl.

    Another thought- I became (and continue to be, but to a lesser extent) extremely emotionally invested in my reactive dog Sage, and I am SURE that this bled into his reactivity, as one ingredient in a pile of unfortunate ingredients, and amplified his problems. I have found- and others have too, Jen @tsukitsune has seen this- that until and unless I have my shit together about him and his problems, my husband can walk him with less drama simply because he is so much less invested and much more matter of fact. Even if something bad happens on a walk, there is NO WAY that Jeff is going to hustle him home with quivering lip, burst through the door and into tears and sob into his mane, overwhelming him. I have relaxed a lot and que sera sera, and gave up on some things and we just are what we are, and with all that perspective Sage has bloomed. I walk him most often but I see and appreciate when I take two of the others and let Jeff take Sage and see him doing all the things I taught him- the same things I do- but with less concern. If Sage freaks, Jeff doesn't care that much, because Sage is MY dog, not his- and unworried, un-emotionally loaded, they walk nicely for the duration that Sage will walk.

    Sage walks farther with both Jeff and I and some of the other dogs along than he does with either of us alone. I would second walking her with a dog friend if possible- I think someone suggested that already. Security in numbers, or the distraction of the dog or something helps them out.
  • Try doing collar grabs, and practicing "It's your choice" at home. That worked exceptionally well for Akuma the Kai, to the point he self loaded into the vehicle, and volunteered his head to wear collars, and stood nicely for the harness. He still didn't enjoy it, but he perceived enough value in chosing to comply and put up with it, and was rewarded well for it. None of mine are particularly fond of wearing equipment, but implementing It's Your Choice works really well for us.

    When I have dogs that become a bit emotional, I tend to interact with them like they do not belong to me, if that makes sense. What I mean is, I have to distance myself and treat the interaction like a job to perform, and there is no messing around, otherwise my worry for them, feeds their panic. It helps to develop the mindset "We can spoon later, but right now, it's all business and we have a job to take care of (the walk, or the bath, etc)". That also makes a huge difference. It's really hard when it's your own pet having a meltdown, but sometimes what they need most is to just walk out of it and burn off the stress, go for a few miles, and not be allowed to "den up".

    She'll get there!
  • @lindsayt Would you mind explaining how doing the "It's your choice" method would go?
  • edited January 2013
    Just adding this real quick until Lindsay responds....

    Originally coined by Susan Garrett http://susangarrettdogagility.com/. It is used in multiple ways/tasks for teaching self control. The link below is a good description. It also is known as "rule outs" in some agility circles. Susan Garett's videos have good examples and I believe there are some on you tube as well.

    http://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/its-your-choice-teaching-self-control/


    Snf
  • Thanks Snf

    I think the principals can cross over to many aspects of training. I believe that it helps my dogs learn that working with me pays and that there are many ways for them to get what they want, and that I will set them up to make good choices along the way. It uses zero force, and gives the dog freedom to chose without fear of any punishment. It really goes beyond agility.
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