Socialization for Shibas 1+years


Hello all - in light of the Rakka vs. Duane post - I would LOVE
input from shiba slaves on how to reintroduce an older Shiba to social
situations.


We recently took in (and ultimately adopted) a male
Shiba Inu who was in a rescue situation and is approximately 1 1/2
years old.


As far as his background, he has pedigree papers
from Ice Wind Farms in NJ, USA - so I can safely assume he is from a
good breeder - and was with one family through puppyhood until probably
sometime between 9 and 12 months of age. He has a petsmart puppy class
certificate but other than that, I don't know what social situations he
was in. They had a baby to which Kitsune (our boy) became 'aggressive'
so they put him into the rescue. He was in rescue working on his child
aggression for  2 months before he could go into foster - and this
is where his story with me begins.


He is a shiba inu in ever
sense of the word - loyal and smart and persistant and proud and above
all, aloof of strangers/new things. He was comfortable with us within
24 hours and he and our resident Shiba were attached at the hip since
his first day here. He will let us handle him in any way - handle his
paws, clip his nails, bathe him,  hold him, cuddle him. He has
shown no aggression whatsoever, in food, high-grade items (raw soup
bones) even with puppy playdates and new dogs, he is perfectly
complacent with dogs and cats. He is even chill with the vacuum, he
walked up to it while it was running and was all 'whatever'. 


But
people, new people in the house, people walking by on walks, the
mailman, people who want to 'pet our dogs' in the pet store - he is
very nervous and has no confidence. He will pull behind us to get away
from anyone while on the leash. In the house, he will bark and keep
distance and eventually go sleep in our bedroom while company is
over. 


I'm fairly sure its an anxiety thing but based on his
background, i'm not sure how much is too much to push socialization
with him.

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Comments

  • edited November -1
    *i should add that we have not seen the 'aggression' even when people
    come to our home, including my 4 year old godson. No aggression, just
    aloofness.
  • edited November -1


    I wouldn't say that Ice Winds farms is a "good" breeder, but they are a breeder.  I know the National Tamaskan Club of America has them listed as a breeder who they specifically do not endorse, though I don't know about their shibas.


    Socializing an older dog can be tough.  Some Shibas are just aloof.  Nemo is very aloof (and shy and nervous) and that's just the way it is.  I take him out places and he gets used to people, but it takes time, and many meetings.  I don't think he will ever be excited to see a stranger, and I am fine with that.


    This spring/summer I am going to try and get out to more public places and just sit with him, but it is very taxing on him.  He lasts about 5 minutes in PetSmart before his face is telling me "I need out, this makes me very unhappy".


     

  • edited March 2008
    It sounds like he needs to build up his self confidence. We got our Shibas as adults [ 3yrs and 1.2 yrs] and both were shy around people. We took them to 'puppy classes' so they could learn to focus on us while there were a lot of people milling around [they were fine with all the dogs already]. We took them walking everywhere, parks, shopping centers etc but initially only for short periods of time, we didn't want to give them sensory overload. Later we took them to agility class, which helped their self confidence a lot. I encourage people to come up and talk to our Shibas while we are out for walks, but just one person at a time. If our dog starts to back away, I put my heels together and position the dog in a sit backed up against my legs. They have the comfort of being against me, they don't get in the habit of backing away from people and they find out that it doesn't 'hurt' for a stranger to put their hand out to them. I only allow a short bit of interaction if the dog is getting real nervous. Gradually they will get more confidence.
    When new people come over to your house you can try putting him on a leash and keeping him by your side, don't fuss with him, pretty much ignore him, letting him get used to this new situation a bit before allowing the people he doesn't know to approach him.

    Another thing that helped Harlow was putting her in a harness. Having something wrapped around her body seems to make her feel more self confident. We are using the Puppia: http://www.bowsawowsa.com/product_info.php?products_id=112
  • edited November -1


    brandon_w - i wasn't sure about that whole Tamaskan thing - icewind
    seems to have a lot to say about that diss on their website.. they seem
    to be, at any rate, a better breeder than some?!

    Also - I think I am fine with Kitsune being only receptive to us, it
    gives us a stronger pack feeling with him.But I don't want him to get
    so anxious on walks/hikes


    harlow - i use a harness on him because
    he gets so frantic i was afraid he'd pull out of his martingale or
    choke himself so we used the harness but he still tries to get farther
    away. I will try the making him sit against my legs thing. I like that
    idea!! Thanks!!  

  • edited November -1


    The day after I brought Jake home at 4.5 months he walked right into PetStuff, tailed curled high, no hesitation.  Two weeks later, he wanted no part of PetStuff, I had to pick him up, take him inside, tail hanging, spooked by the slightest sound.  I think I realized then that I could not afford to go two weeks without getting him out of the house.  Today, a week is too long.  At 8.5 months, if we don't go to a friends house, the doggie park, or petstuff, I make sure we take a walk down by the river around dogs and people.  If I don't, he will regress and prefer to stay at home, in its safety, with his pack and in his domain.  Being single, I can't do that, I have to get out and stay active.


    Jake's never had an issue with kids.  He loves them and has never felt intimidated.  Men, however, is a different story.  At 6 months, he wouldn't go near them.  Today, at 8.5 months, he is much much better and I have even witnessed him allowing them to hold him briefly.  However, in his domain, that caution and preference not to be around them still exists.


    My long story short, socialization in all settings, consistently, has proven to be the right thing for my Shiba and myself.  I would much rather have him comfortable around people and animals than have him fetch a ball or lie down on command.  Those little tricks are easy to teach.

  • edited November -1


    Elaine, that is good to know. I know Kitsune, but I don't know his
    background prior to being a year old when he came to live with me. I
    honestly don't want to push him to be jolly with strangers - i do not
    think that is in his nature and I don't want to force that!


    I
    do, however like you said, want him to be comfortable with people and
    animals unfamiliar to him when we as a pack are out in public or at a
    park!!


    I will be consistant in introducing him to the new and hopefully he will get better. He has a lot of time! 

  • edited November -1
    I think these primative breeds have a flight or fight attitude, inherent in their beings, whether a rescue or not.  I try and believe what The Dog Whisper says "dogs live in the moment" and not in their past.  Please keep us up to date on Kitsune.  You know the Shiba as well as I and that will be all that matters to him and his social progress.
  • edited April 2008


    I agree with Scarlet. Consistency consistency consistency. I got Lucy at 7 months and she was great with people, but not well socialized at all. She was afraid of just about everything. For those of you who have met Lucy, you know that isn't the case anymore (except for people stepping too close to her or over her). All I did was make sure to get her out of the house and around other dogs as much as possible. I made sure to stop and talk to everyone on the street during our walks, especially if they had a dog (which wasn't hard because Lucy usually attracts a lot of attention). I took her on walks in places with lots of people and other dogs. After a month or so, once she was doing better. I started bringing her to the dog park. I started with small dogs only. At first, she wanted nothing to do with any of the other dogs. Then, on our third visit, after 45 minutes she started sprinting around with a Boston. After 30 seconds she stopped, but I saw that a HUGE breakthrough. Each subsequent visit the amount of time before she started playing got shorter and the length of time she did play got longer. After a few more visits, I would start taking her in with the big dogs after she had been playing with the small dogs for a while. At first she hated it. She would sprint away whenever a big dog got close. But again, after repetition things started getting better. Now, I usually just take her directly into the big dog area.


    I also do my best to take her with me wherever I can. If I am running a quick errand (less than five minutes out of the car) I'll bring her for the ride. If I am going out for dinner or drinks at a place that has a patio, I will call ahead to see if they allow dogs on the patio and bring her if they do.


    In all of these situations, if she was unsure I would simply ignore her. I mean, I would keep an eye on her to make sure she didn't escalate, but I didn't give her any attention. After a while, she would get bored and just relax and then I would start to pet her and talk to her.

  • edited November -1
    on last nite's walk we had a MAJOR breakthrough! Kitsune did not go
    beserk when he passed a parked car (first time ever!) and let our
    neighbor quickly pet him while held -> that was short lived because
    I could see how incredibly uncomfortable it made him and my husband
    would have held him there until he bit someone... dope.
  • edited November -1
    He goes crazy at parked cars?  Poor guy.  I'm glad he made it past one last night.  It's baby steps with Shibas that were not socialized properly when young.
  • edited November -1
    Agreed, it is baby steps. But baby steps are HUGE breakthroughs. Give home some hugs!
  • edited November -1


    yeah we have 4 ft and 7 ft leads.. we had him on the 7 ft for his
    first ever walk with us and we passed a garbage can and he went behind
    me straight 180 degrees to get away from it. odd. then he did it to a
    parked car. he's since been on the shorter lead to get more
    familiarized with our everyday routine and situation on walks.. 


    that was one month ago! baby steps indeed!  

  • edited November -1


    When I was looking to add a Shiba to my home I contacted Icewindfarm.com.  They had a beautiful black/tan female shown in pictures.  I was very interested and the price was $1,000 plus shipping.  When I expressed I wasn't sure I wanted to pay that price for a puppy I had not seen or visited with in person, the price quicky dropped to $600 plus hand delivery courier.  This was for a full-breeding rights female.  When I asked about her  pedigree, she could not produce the pedigree.


     Red flags stopped my correspondence with them.  Later, I did speak with what I felt to be a reputable out of state breeder.  That breeder happened to mention Icewind claiming they were backyard breeders/puppy mill breeders.  I can't confirm or deny.


    I did find some useful information from Icewind's website. (nutrition/snacks, etc.)

  • edited November -1


    I know - I had first approached them via email to visit a pup about
    2 years ago that was 4 months old and did not have a home yet. they
    wanted to schedule an appointment on a certain time and day because
    they wanted to make sure 'i had time with just that dog' and i asked to
    spend time with its mother too, and they said they don't let pregnant
    dogs greet visitors. That dog had only had pups 4 months earlier! I
    thought that was rather quick. thats why we didn't purchase from them
    when we had an interest in Shibas at first and went directly into
    rescued shibas.


    but my rescue from icewind has pedigree papers.  


    who knows. i get a 50/50 response when people who have heard of icewind give reviews.  

  • edited November -1
    I have to share one of those socialization successes I had today.  For the first time ever, Jazz didn't freak out when we went to PetSmart to pick up some treats.  I was SOOOO proud.
  • edited November -1
    Go Jazz! She's really making progress LJ. Keep up the good work. :-)
  • edited November -1
    Thanks!  I was so excited - the people at PetSmart had to think I was crazy!  There were a couple of dogs that came up to her - we didn't have a single growl :-)
  • edited November -1
    Oh wow. That is HUGE progress! I have to say, on some level I'm gonna miss Jazz's growls. ;-)
  • edited November -1
    I'm sure we'll see one or two tomorrow.
  • edited November -1


    isn't it wonderful to see those milestones in your dog!!!


    we still have a long way to go with my shiba man, but we'll get there!!

  • edited November -1
    We just got home from the pet parade and shiba picnic - we had 4 growls at the parade and two at the picnic!  I am so proud of my Jazz.  She's made leaps in socialization over the last six months!!!
  • edited November -1
    Yeah she has! Not only did she only growl twice at the picnic, but there were a lot of dogs in tight quarters and she didn't seem bothered in the slightest. I was very proud of her!
  • edited November -1
    Thanks, Dave.  All that calm took its toll.  She's been asleep since we got home - you couldn't pry her out of her crate right now.
  • edited November -1
    Where is the spam????? I see no parade pictures, no picnic picures. I need my spam!!!!
  • edited November -1
    Spam is good with eggs and rice. Mmm...too bad Errik doesn't like spam or I would go buy some.
  • edited November -1
    Mmmm. Fried eggs and Fried Rice???? Sounds like home.
  • edited April 2008
    Oh yeah. Gosh in Nagasaki (Japan) there's this one restaurant that has the best fried rice ever. Don't ask me where exactly it was.
  • edited November -1
    I'll  be posting pics after church this morning.
  • edited November -1
    Hey Rina, where exactly is that restaurant you mentioned? :-P
  • edited November -1
    Lol meanie :P Somewhere here. I ate there for every meal for the 3 days we were down there hahaha. I love fried rice.
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