Assumptions about puppy socialization
I know that its important for a puppy to learn canine social skills from its mother and litter mates. In particular people talk about bite inhibition and that another puppy would squeal or yelp if bitten too hard. They are supposed to learn not to bite too hard from this as well as other play behaviors. My question is... what if the dog is just a jerk?
An adult dog can figure out how rough is too rough, even if it didn't play with siblings. The question is whether or not the dog cares that its too much. Knowing its too rough and doing something about it (eg. moderating the behavior) are two different things. How does the early socialization make the dog more empathetic to other dogs?
What do you do if you have a puppy who doesn't seem to care and doesn't relent when its other litter mates complain about its rough play? Is that puppy just an asshole and always will be?
An adult dog can figure out how rough is too rough, even if it didn't play with siblings. The question is whether or not the dog cares that its too much. Knowing its too rough and doing something about it (eg. moderating the behavior) are two different things. How does the early socialization make the dog more empathetic to other dogs?
What do you do if you have a puppy who doesn't seem to care and doesn't relent when its other litter mates complain about its rough play? Is that puppy just an asshole and always will be?
Comments
I suspect both age and whether or not the puppy "values" play has a lot to do with whether the prospective owner/guardian/parent should attempt to model or shape the a-hole behavior.
We've been seeing a pup in our pup social that look to be a mixed breed Shephard/Akita, same age as my JA pup. She was shy to begin with but started to develop dog aggression a month ago (playing too rough, bullying other dogs and don't know when to back off). Two weeks ago the owner was told to leave pup social, both Sat and Sunday sessions.
- The trainer said sometimes it's just the dog's personality. Once they hit 13 weeks, the personality is set.
Please note that before the pup was asked to leave, the pup was given time outs immediately after the undesirable behavior started. Usually dogs that value play will then know they did something wrong. If they want to continue playing, they have to stop what they were doing before.
Another training facility we go to for social will put vests (or ThunderShirts, or AceBandages) on dogs to calm them down when they start to get too excited. This seemed to work well in our case. Here's a picture of Meichan modeling...
IMHO, socialization should be a life-long process... some to help the dog behave better among his own kind, some to help the dog behave better in human society (i.e., do not herd small kids as if they're sheep, lawn mowers are not worth barking at, do not go next door and kill the neighbors cat, etc)
ps. given I don't breed, my above comments probably don't apply to the original question... I guess I'm one of those paranoid dog parents that hate it when people say oh you have an Akita, it's a fighting/guard dog and just want to prove them wrong
Agreed socialization should continue over the life of the animal as part of enrichment.
Dogs do learn from each other so anything is fair game in the learning process but pairing appropriately is really important : )
Snf
I do feel, though, if I had known how to manage his behavior better and worked on early socialization better, I might have had a slightly less reactive dog than I ended up with. But I do think a lot of his early behavior was just how he is.
So I think Snf is making good points--the older, well socialized dogs will interrupt rough play, or should, as should the human family. I don't think leaving the pup in the litter longer makes the puppy have more empathy--I think that it is that the adult dogs, esp. the mother, will interrupt overly rough play more often in those last weeks with her, and that MAY help.
Of course, if the rough pup goes into an only dog home, I would imagine the new family would have to work even harder to make sure the dog didn't continue this kind of behavior, because it is the adult dogs that are going to do best, I would think, in keeping the overly rough puppy in line. But if there are no other dogs to do this, the dog may never really learn how to behave appropriately with other dogs.
There was a very rough puppy in our puppy class, and the (very good) trainer finally suggested the couple find some older steady dogs to socialize the puppy with. They did this, and I met the dog again about 2 months later, and noticed she was much better behaved with other dogs. She still played rough (her and Leo loved to play with each other) but she was no longer nearly as inappropriate (like snapping at other dogs, getting in their face, etc). They said having her play with some adult dogs who corrected her rudeness really helped.
But also I'd like to point out that the puppy who is biting is not the only one learning, the puppy who is being bitten is learning too, which is just as important. The puppy being bitten is learning how to communicate "stop", or learning that, well, some dogs are jerks. It prepares them for later in life when they meet another "jerk dog".
I actually think the whole bite inhibition thing is a bit overplayed. I think puppies learn bite inhibition very early - like 5-6 weeks. After that I am not sure the littermate interaction is really benefiting them much as far as bite inhibition goes. I think after 6 weeks they start to learn other skills form playing with each other - like how to defuse conflict, how to recognize conflict, how to deal with the "value system", how to deal with stress, coping skills, among other things. The idea of "yelping" when a dog bites you, or getting a pup in puppy class specifically for them to learn bite inhibition is geared more toward rescue pups or pups from poor breeding practices where their littermate socialization was severely limited.
As for the real important question (IMHO): "What do you do if you have a puppy who doesn't seem to care and doesn't relent when its other litter mates complain about its rough play? Is that puppy just an asshole and always will be?"
>> When we have a puppy who is too rough, or a puppy who is getting bullied, we will manage them by separating the pups into smaller play groups that play nicer together. Also, if we see a pup who is a bully, we will step in and use negative punishment to curb the behavior - for example - give him/her a time out.
If you aren't comfortable with the way the pups are playing, you can intervene, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
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This is really a question about Shibas, lol.
Redirecting them to a toy or picking them up (a time out basically) seems to help with the puppy sibling quarrels for the one "bully" puppy that is just a jerk. A one to one with a reliable patient puppy uncle or aunt helps take the wind out of their little sails in short order.
We had a similar situation with one of our girls - Tsuki, she was a big bully when she was little, literally terrorised Kito (the brindle male) when he arrived and she was only a month and a half older than him. She improved greatly with socialization, so for me that seems to be the key.