I, unfortunately, have had the spiteful pooing. The first time I took a toy away from Lucy in front of another dog, we were outside of my house and she was chewing on my neighbor's Golden's pig's ear (wow, three straight words with apostrophes!). I took it from her to give back to the Golden since they were going back in. Lucy did not like that in the slightest. Long story short, right after we came back inside, we went up to go to bed. When I came out from brushing my teeth, Lucy was hiding under the bed (which she only does when she thinks I'm pissed at her) and there it was, right in front of the door. Grrr.
I would leave her behind. She might "spite pee" but she will likely also learn that she is not boss. When Moto plays that game, I take Piglet out with out him. He is always waiting by his leash when I come back in.
I tried leaving her behind yesterday and the day before at night. At night, she refused to come out from under the bed, so I took Joey and left the room for a few minutes. When I came back in, she was waiting near the door. She went under the bed again. I left the room again. No more problems since. Then yesterday, when I as going to take them to play in the park, she was up to her new tricks so I took Joey out and around the corner. I let him go the bathroom and then came back to get her. She was waiting to be leashed up, but when I got close she walked away so I started to leave again. She came back and this time I was able to leash her. I tried the same this morning for our walk, but this time I wasn't able to leash her on the second try so I left her behind for the whole walk. Now she's waiting by the door expecting to go for a walk and she isn't going. We'll see how it goes. I'm gonna go let her out to pee though. :-/
Lucy sounds just like my friends dog Takara (Nemo's girlfriend). When she hit that same age, she went from the most obedient little Shiba ever to a complete bitch about everything. Alex (her mom) could never get her back at the dog park, she would have to follow her around for like 1/2 an hour. At home she was always running away and hiding, just being a real brat all the time. I think it was really bad for 6-8 months. Sometimes now she still is a pain about coming to get leashed at the dog park, but at home she is much better. This is a well trained dog too, Alex and Takara do obedience competitions.
However whenever we were at the park, she would come to me when I called her everytime. It was like I was the "special guest" and mom was just old hat. Alex never found it as funny as I do.
I feel that by ignoring Jake when he gives me that 'yea, right -- when H__L freezes over' look that by my moving forward with my plans without him, he is the one to give in, not me. Plus, it seems to maintain balance in our anxiety levels
Now I'm starting to feel bad. I've taken the whole leave her behind thing very seriously. I did it three time more today with walks/potty breaks and again when coming in from being on the back deck. I also took Joey's play pen and used it to section off my living room from the rest of the house so Lucy and him could play and I could continue to keep on eye on the both of them while using my laptop on the couch. Lucy immediately figured out how to jump up and over the couch to get out which is what I was hoping would happen; however, she is now refusing to spend time in here with us. Whenever I coax her in, she'll stay long enough to get a little attention from me and then go back out. If I open the back door to go out on the deck, she'll come barreling over the couch and wait to go out with me. As soon as we come back in, she's over the couch and gone again. I finally managed to get her to play with Joey in here with us and after a while, they both fell asleep on the floor. When I came back from stepping out for a minute, I picked her up and put her on the couch where she stayed for a few minutes. I then picked Joey up and put him on the couch and off she went. I miss my snuggle bug. Is she going to go back to being herself someday or is she going to continue to be pissed at me?
Aww Dave. Don't worry, she will get back to her usual self soon im sure. Maybe she's just a bit confused of why joey is still here? He hasn't been with you for that long, so maybe its just taking her a bit longer to realize that he is here forever?
We'll have had Joey for 3 weeks come Saturday, although it won't be 3 weeks at home until Monday. I expected that she might get a little jealous, but I figured if I was careful to give her attention and ignore Joey some of the time she wouldn't be too upset. This is way worse than I anticipated. I need a hug. :-(
Now I feel bad. I have no answers. I'm afraid Lucy might have begun a new stage in her mentality and I have no clue how to, or if it's even possible, to return her to her original state of being. Acceptance may be the only answer. Your pack is changing.
I'll be interested to see how Jake reacts at the picnic. As he matures, his domineering attitude and will grow stronger (9 months). A short dog sniff by the river yesterday was another 'get out of my face' encounter. I may have to accept that doggie parks are a thing of the past for him even noticing the last few times we drove up to the park his excitement was just not one of his old enthusiast, can't wait to play, let's go attitude. I can't put him at risk and I can't change the instinctual nature of his breed. I just have to live with it.
Think of Lucy as an only-child teenager whose parents just brought home this cute little bundle of joy. Eventually, she'll settle in - the beginning was more of a "oh, dad is keeping someone's baby while they are out of town" and is going into "you mean this is permanent - he's not just mine anymore? I'll make him take the baby back". It will take some time, for the dynamics to change. Can you tell that I've got friends with teenagers that have adopted little ones? In the beginning, everything seems cool, then it goes into some weird acting out phases, lots of love and comforting later, happy family.
Elaine: Granted I haven't seen Jake at the dog park in a few weeks, but I've never seen any behavior out of him that I would be worried out other than guarding the water bowl. Keep on him, I know you can make it work if you want to.
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LJ: Thanks for the story. I got that feeling too. Of course I don't know if love and comfort is what Lucy needs right now because this is not acceptable behavior to me.
Comforting only reaffirms that there is a problem. Just like getting home after being gone and being all excited adds to thier anxiety of you being gone. i think acting out of the norm of what she is used to solidifies that there is a change. Just my thoughts....
This is what i have learned with Sasha. i ignore her freak outs, but praise the good behavior.
She is going through some changes as she gets older Dave. Seems like it is going to be pretty rough on you, but she will come back around to being more the dog you are used. She is a teenager, teenagers are disobediant and only get what they want from their parents and then ignore them.
Sorry for the confusion on "comforting" - that's what the humans do - in the dog realm, I agree that that would reinforce the acting out by Lucy.
Elaine - Of course, I've only met Jake once, but I thought he did very well at the park other than the one incident with Cara's male. That involved a toy, so I didn't think it was that bad.
I've certainly done all I know to do to socialize Jake, since 4.5 months of age. I will say Jake gets more attitude when he's attached to me at the hip by a leash, which was the case yesterday. How can I not love something that loves me so much?
If I had wanted a lap dog poodle, I would have gotten one. If I had wanted a social butterfly, I would have gotten a lab. I've had terriers all my life, loving their fearless, spunky, independent natures, but I must say, those companions did not prepare me for my Shiba. Or perhaps my being older has changed my attitude to a 'pick your battles' mentality. Or, even still, maybe I never tried so hard to socialize my pet having had other priorities for my lifelong companion....
Honestly, thinking out loud here, maybe I am analyzing too much of what I need to do in my relationship with Jake rather than taking control, being myself and allowing him to tune into that, to be the pet companion I wanted and to simply enjoy the bond between man/dog.
Thanks guys. It has been, and probably will continue to be, pretty rough on me. I didn't expect that I was going to get such a loving companion when I got Lucy. I knew she was going to be independent and aloof, but after bonding with her for a few months she wasn't much like that at all. She became incredibly sweet and loving. It is the departure from her old behavior that upsets me. A large part of my motivation for getting Joey was my hope that it would make her happier and now I question what I've done. I almost feel like I've betrayed her.
I think the problem with Shibas is that they are way too much like a cat to be a dog. Honestly - bringing in another animal into the house is like the biggest slight to a Shiba! A slap in the face with a glove. and now ITS ON!
we take in fosters now and then since we've had Tsuki, never another shiba unfortunately, but she was P-O'd at us for weeks at a time. We had her for about 3 weeks before we got a foster basset. She was snuggly, cuddly, would sleep on my chest, right next to me in bed, would do great on walks, respond to commands, wonderful. We were shocked because she herself was a rescue with no people exposure before us..
but then the basset came. She HATED me! I cried for a week - i was so sure that she'd never come around and continue plotting my demise from under the bed that she so often would go to now that the basset was there.
but - a couple weeks later, it was fine! she came back around - but the basset demanded much time and attention so i think i pulled away from her after all of that. But then Kitsune was adopted, and she had a shiba to complain to. Now that its just the two of them (shibas) I think we have more balance where I can shower her with love and affection and she is returning it again while my husband just loves Kitsune and he responds to that with him too. Its nice again. thats why i'm so hesitant to bring in another foster now. How can I do that to HER again!
but then i thought about it - when i was in high school i had a cat that was wonderful only with me, wouldn't let anyone hold her but me, then after 2 years, we adopted a kitten for her when i started going to college full time - and guess what, my cat hated me! would hiss, hide, fuss when i tried to hold her, wanted to eat the kitten, for a good 3-4 weeks. JUST LIKE THAT SHIBA I HAVE NOW!! they are just too cat like for their own good.
good news is, Lucy will come around on her own terms. They are too prideful to have it any other way.
Lucy has been snuggling with me all morning for the first time in two weeks!!!!!! I don't think she's 100% back to herself yet, but I'm hoping this is a sign we may have turned the corner. *fingers crossed again*
Comments
I plan on sticking around - really, I do.
Good luck on this leash/walking thing. I'm sure you'll succeed.
Can't wait to meet Joey at the meetup.
Hi LJ! Welcome!
(I just posted a welcome in a different thread too)
Lucy sounds just like my friends dog Takara (Nemo's girlfriend). When she hit that same age, she went from the most obedient little Shiba ever to a complete bitch about everything. Alex (her mom) could never get her back at the dog park, she would have to follow her around for like 1/2 an hour. At home she was always running away and hiding, just being a real brat all the time. I think it was really bad for 6-8 months. Sometimes now she still is a pain about coming to get leashed at the dog park, but at home she is much better. This is a well trained dog too, Alex and Takara do obedience competitions.
However whenever we were at the park, she would come to me when I called her everytime. It was like I was the "special guest" and mom was just old hat. Alex never found it as funny as I do.
Shibas test us for sure.
I feel that by ignoring Jake when he gives me that 'yea, right -- when H__L freezes over' look that by my moving forward with my plans without him, he is the one to give in, not me. Plus, it seems to maintain balance in our anxiety levels
Aww Dave. Don't worry, she will get back to her usual self soon im sure. Maybe she's just a bit confused of why joey is still here? He hasn't been with you for that long, so maybe its just taking her a bit longer to realize that he is here forever?
Now I feel bad. I have no answers. I'm afraid Lucy might have begun a new stage in her mentality and I have no clue how to, or if it's even possible, to return her to her original state of being. Acceptance may be the only answer. Your pack is changing.
I'll be interested to see how Jake reacts at the picnic. As he matures, his domineering attitude and will grow stronger (9 months). A short dog sniff by the river yesterday was another 'get out of my face' encounter. I may have to accept that doggie parks are a thing of the past for him even noticing the last few times we drove up to the park his excitement was just not one of his old enthusiast, can't wait to play, let's go attitude. I can't put him at risk and I can't change the instinctual nature of his breed. I just have to live with it.
----
LJ: Thanks for the story. I got that feeling too. Of course I don't know if love and comfort is what Lucy needs right now because this is not acceptable behavior to me.
---
Rina: You make me laugh. :-D
Comforting only reaffirms that there is a problem. Just like getting home after being gone and being all excited adds to thier anxiety of you being gone. i think acting out of the norm of what she is used to solidifies that there is a change. Just my thoughts....
This is what i have learned with Sasha. i ignore her freak outs, but praise the good behavior.
Sorry for the confusion on "comforting" - that's what the humans do - in the dog realm, I agree that that would reinforce the acting out by Lucy.
Elaine - Of course, I've only met Jake once, but I thought he did very well at the park other than the one incident with Cara's male. That involved a toy, so I didn't think it was that bad.
I've certainly done all I know to do to socialize Jake, since 4.5 months of age. I will say Jake gets more attitude when he's attached to me at the hip by a leash, which was the case yesterday. How can I not love something that loves me so much?
If I had wanted a lap dog poodle, I would have gotten one. If I had wanted a social butterfly, I would have gotten a lab. I've had terriers all my life, loving their fearless, spunky, independent natures, but I must say, those companions did not prepare me for my Shiba. Or perhaps my being older has changed my attitude to a 'pick your battles' mentality. Or, even still, maybe I never tried so hard to socialize my pet having had other priorities for my lifelong companion....
Honestly, thinking out loud here, maybe I am analyzing too much of what I need to do in my relationship with Jake rather than taking control, being myself and allowing him to tune into that, to be the pet companion I wanted and to simply enjoy the bond between man/dog.
TGIF!
I think the problem with Shibas is that they are way too much like a
cat to be a dog. Honestly - bringing in another animal into the house
is like the biggest slight to a Shiba! A slap in the face with a glove.
and now ITS ON!
we take in fosters now and then since we've had
Tsuki, never another shiba unfortunately, but she was P-O'd at us for
weeks at a time. We had her for about 3 weeks before we got a foster
basset. She was snuggly, cuddly, would sleep on my chest, right next to
me in bed, would do great on walks, respond to commands, wonderful. We
were shocked because she herself was a rescue with no people exposure
before us..
but then the basset came. She HATED me! I cried for a week - i was so
sure that she'd never come around and continue plotting my demise from
under the bed that she so often would go to now that the basset was
there.
but - a couple weeks later, it was fine! she came
back around - but the basset demanded much time and attention so i
think i pulled away from her after all of that. But then Kitsune was
adopted, and she had a shiba to complain to. Now that its just the two
of them (shibas) I think we have more balance where I can shower her
with love and affection and she is returning it again while my husband
just loves Kitsune and he responds to that with him too. Its nice
again. thats why i'm so hesitant to bring in another foster now. How
can I do that to HER again!
but then i thought
about it - when i was in high school i had a cat that was wonderful
only with me, wouldn't let anyone hold her but me, then after 2 years,
we adopted a kitten for her when i started going to college full time -
and guess what, my cat hated me! would hiss, hide, fuss when i tried to
hold her, wanted to eat the kitten, for a good 3-4 weeks. JUST LIKE
THAT SHIBA I HAVE NOW!! they are just too cat like for their own good.
good news is, Lucy will come around on her own terms. They are too prideful to have it any other way.
sorry for the long post - Hang in there!!!