@violet_in_seville I'm not downing any breeder for using kennels. You do what you can do. I just wanted a home bred Kai.
When we were waiting for our pup to come home we got to visit a lot, but we also heard weekly updates on what new stimuli were being introduced, how they were proceeding with potty training, and in the latter weeks, how they were proceeding with crate training. Even simple things like the opening and closing of kitchen cabinets, or the sound of kitchen appliances (not just vacuums) is important since they'll hear that once they live with you.
I got these updates about Koda all the time. I really enjoyed them. My favorite phone call was to tell me that Koda loved running up and down the stairs. He was, no surprise here, quite larger than his siblings so he was more mobile and liked to follow around his family. He still likes randomly running up stairs when he sees them.
I watched Mika online on the puppy cam. I had that open everywhere I went and would bring an ipad to pull her up and show everyone. I remember Jen texting me to tell me when the pups were going to meet their daddy. That was a whole other level of awesome.
@tjbart17 - I know you're not. I think for some the critical evaluation of breeding practices may come across that way. I'm probably too used to the shiba forum where critique can really get some people's backs up. Just want to make it clear to the original poster so that they don't feel backed into a corner. I think everyone who posts is doing so with an eye to facilitating an informed decision process rather than trying to make the decision for the poster.
@violet_in_seville -- This thread has been beyond informative, and I'm really glad for that. When I started it, I had no idea that there were really such differences within the different registration organizations, and that was really enlightening. Even though I'd already put down a deposit on a puppy before I joined the forum, I felt like I knew enough at that time to make an informed decision. And honestly, I'll probably end up following through with that kennel unless the visit turns up disturbing information. Fingers crossed. I really appreciate all the dedication present within the members of this community; that's precisely why I decided to try and get involved in the first place. I like what you all are doing here and wanted to be a part of it. So no worries on my part!
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "kennel blindness?" I think I know what you mean but the clarification would be educational for me I think.
@ Violet - Here is reference from the article (see link below). AKC aside if the shoe fits... Kennel blindness is a human affliction "that results in breeders’ inability or refusal to admit to the failings in their own lines of dogs, whether they relate to conformation traits described in the AKC breed standards, behavior or genetic disease. Kennel-blind breeders are given to justifying the dogs they breed by developing warped and unrealistic interpretations of their breed’s standard"
"kennel-blind breeder can become “blind” to serious faults and health defects (or behavioral problems) in their dogs, these problems may become fixed in a couple of generations. Unless quickly diagnosed and treated, kennel blindness can lead to the demise of a successful breeding program."
There are three characteristics:
Symptom 1 The tendency to ignore the virtues and focus on the faults of a competitor’s dogs.
Symptom 2 The belief that you have bred the “perfect” dog. No “perfect” dog has ever or will ever be bred in any breed. Even what you consider your best can usually be improved upon.
Symptom 3 Blaming the fact that your dog is not winning on bad judging, politics or anything except the possibility that there may be something wrong with your dog. Bad sportsmanship and kennel blindness can go hand-in-hand. Kennel-blind people always have an excuse for why their dog didn’t (fill in the blank).
Understand that standards outline the essential aspects of a breed and that more than one style may be acceptable in your breed. (In the case of Kai there are two types deer and boar I believe. How the newly made American style differs from Japanese should be reviewed closely).
Be sure you understand the difference between breed type and style. A dog’s breed type is defined by its breed standard, which is the written description of the ideal dog of that breed. Style, on the other hand, is how individual breeders interpret the standard and artistically express various elements of breed type in the dogs they breed. Each breeder’s interpretation of the standard can therefore result in a variation of styles within a breed.
As with all things in there are trends however, it's best not to lose sight of the standard and origin of the breed.
Having decent mentors, group evaluations and judge of breed origin for input is a big help in improving the breeding efforts as a whole.
@rjannsen86 The puppy I am getting is now 6-weeks old and is being raised in a kennel as I believe are the majority of NK being breed in Japan. It is just the way it is. As for the breeder, deposit ect. with all the negative comments maybe instead of going to Michigan it would be better to use that money to look elsewhere. If you are just looking for a pet it is one thing, but I am sure your dog isn't going to come cheap so you might be better off with a better representation of the breed based on it's true standards. It seems that this breeder not only ignored the Japanese breed standards but also messed them up in Europe by exporting her dogs there. I just think something like having a cream Kai and selling it as a pet is one thing, saying that it is ok to show it in the ring is something totally different. Just my ¥2. Good luck with your search!!
@cdenney : A great many people in ignorance think a shy or fearful dog has been abused when that simply is not the case.
My little Angirasu is very outgoing, absolutely loves people, isn't phased by new situations, crowds, bigger dogs, or anything. That said, like every single one of my Akitas, she doesn't like strange people reaching over her head to pet her. She's not afraid of the hand -- mostly she wants to just check it out, which she can't do if its behind her head -- but even if she were, I think its a perfectly rational response for a puppy. An open hand, palm down, is very much like a giant eagle talon that could carry a pup off into the mountains. Ducking away from it on instinct isn't a bad reaction at all! Nonetheless I was queried whether she was a rescue, and when I said I'd bred and raised her, received an offhanded comment about how every dog they knew that acted like that had been abused. The implication was not only did he not believe me that she wasn't abused, but that I must be personally abusing her. I was pretty ticked. I try to tell people to greet my dogs with their hand palm-up and pet under the chin or on the chest (my dogs all have "the spot" there they love to be scratched anyway) but they don't listen and reach over the head... Sigh.
The crux of the situation is the fact there isn't a single unified breed standard based on the predominant Kai governing body in Japan.
Secondly, when one breeder in a particular country (speaking of the U.S.) predominates and determines a type (for years) without reference to the country of origin and it's breeders/club experts then one begins to see an entirely different dog in look, feel, and temperament evolving in a closed population…. So essentially a lot of the Kai that have been produced in the U.S. up to this point are essentially "Americanized" modified Kai.
Third, In surmising in regard to shows, unfamiliar judges who see only this single type Kai then begin to interpret those mental images as being correct. Judging can be very subjective from what I have observed, and if there isn't much for them to go on as a resource, and no clearly delineated text in english with photos to reference what is acceptable, the Ok factor is stretched (i.e. warped color, height, etc etc). As I understand there are some NIPPO judges that do not have a good understanding of Kai either, if it is not in their field of experience. I am guessing even a predominantly Shiba experienced judge may not really be an expert in Kai beyond a cursory look, even at a specialty show. I am guessing this may be the case if there are very few Kai to judge as it simply isn't worth time/cost/effort to cater to a few animals. Therefore, represented dogs may not get the detailed criticism they should in the criteria dept.
Finally, as far individual kennel blindness ….. seems like it is a matter of a breeder(s?) believing they were founding first in the territory (think Sooners of great land rush) and their framework is true and correct, regardless if their dogs do not meet criteria by the country of origin and majority of dogs are not deemed a standard type for the breed.
I guess it's the American way when there are no rules, simply make up your own. Law of the land so to speak. As result, these individuals have gone an entirely different path with different foundation. I guess it is cost and simple stubbornness that little education has gone into expanding an old repertoire.
Who's to say, the question now is what are all of us going to do to improve the situation, the breed, and move forward toward a path that is more in line with a standard true to is native origins? There are some really nice animals out there and potential for quality to continue, and to represent the breed in a positive fashion.
There were no Kai entries entered by Classy Kennel at the last NIPPO Classic show. According to Marian, she had to fly out for a judging assignment that weekend.
A recent query on the UKC website did not pull up her name as a UKC judge on the 2010 NIPPO Classic weekend. She judged the weekend before and the weekend after.
None of the Kai entries at the 2010 NIPPO Classic were bred by Classy, too.
Comments
I watched Mika online on the puppy cam. I had that open everywhere I went and would bring an ipad to pull her up and show everyone. I remember Jen texting me to tell me when the pups were going to meet their daddy. That was a whole other level of awesome.
Kennel blindness is a human affliction "that results in breeders’ inability or refusal to admit to the failings in their own lines of dogs, whether they relate to conformation traits described in the AKC breed standards, behavior or genetic disease. Kennel-blind breeders are given to justifying the dogs they breed by developing warped and unrealistic interpretations of their breed’s standard"
"kennel-blind breeder can become “blind” to serious faults and health defects (or behavioral problems) in their dogs, these problems may become fixed in a couple of generations. Unless quickly diagnosed and treated, kennel blindness can lead to the demise of a successful breeding program."
There are three characteristics:
Symptom 1
The tendency to ignore the virtues and focus on the faults of a competitor’s dogs.
Symptom 2
The belief that you have bred the “perfect” dog. No “perfect” dog has ever or will ever be bred in any breed. Even what you consider your best can usually be improved upon.
Symptom 3
Blaming the fact that your dog is not winning on bad judging, politics or anything except the possibility that there may be something wrong with your dog. Bad sportsmanship and kennel blindness can go hand-in-hand. Kennel-blind people always have an excuse for why their dog didn’t (fill in the blank).
Understand that standards outline the essential aspects of a breed and that more than one style may be acceptable in your breed. (In the case of Kai there are two types deer and boar I believe. How the newly made American style differs from Japanese should be reviewed closely).
Be sure you understand the difference between breed type and style. A dog’s breed type is defined by its breed standard, which is the written description of the ideal dog of that breed. Style, on the other hand, is how individual breeders interpret the standard and artistically express various elements of breed type in the dogs they breed. Each breeder’s interpretation of the standard can therefore result in a variation of styles within a breed.
As with all things in there are trends however, it's best not to lose sight of the standard and origin of the breed.
Having decent mentors, group evaluations and judge of breed origin for input is a big help in improving the breeding efforts as a whole.
Ref: http://www.akc.org/enewsletter/akc_breeder/2006/march/kennel.cfm
The puppy I am getting is now 6-weeks old and is being raised in a kennel as I believe are the majority of NK being breed in Japan. It is just the way it is.
As for the breeder, deposit ect. with all the negative comments maybe instead of going to Michigan it would be better to use that money to look elsewhere. If you are just looking for a pet it is one thing, but I am sure your dog isn't going to come cheap so you might be better off with a better representation of the breed based on it's true standards. It seems that this breeder not only ignored the Japanese breed standards but also messed them up in Europe by exporting her dogs there. I just think something like having a cream Kai and selling it as a pet is one thing, saying that it is ok to show it in the ring is something totally different.
Just my ¥2.
Good luck with your search!!
The crux of the situation is the fact there isn't a single unified breed standard based on the predominant Kai governing body in Japan.
Secondly, when one breeder in a particular country (speaking of the U.S.) predominates and determines a type (for years) without reference to the country of origin and it's breeders/club experts then one begins to see an entirely different dog in look, feel, and temperament evolving in a closed population…. So essentially a lot of the Kai that have been produced in the U.S. up to this point are essentially "Americanized" modified Kai.
Third, In surmising in regard to shows, unfamiliar judges who see only this single type Kai then begin to interpret those mental images as being correct. Judging can be very subjective from what I have observed, and if there isn't much for them to go on as a resource, and no clearly delineated text in english with photos to reference what is acceptable, the Ok factor is stretched (i.e. warped color, height, etc etc). As I understand there are some NIPPO judges that do not have a good understanding of Kai either, if it is not in their field of experience. I am guessing even a predominantly Shiba experienced judge may not really be an expert in Kai beyond a cursory look, even at a specialty show. I am guessing this may be the case if there are very few Kai to judge as it simply isn't worth time/cost/effort to cater to a few animals. Therefore, represented dogs may not get the detailed criticism they should in the criteria dept.
Finally, as far individual kennel blindness ….. seems like it is a matter of a breeder(s?) believing they were founding first in the territory (think Sooners of great land rush) and their framework is true and correct, regardless if their dogs do not meet criteria by the country of origin and majority of dogs are not deemed a standard type for the breed.
I guess it's the American way when there are no rules, simply make up your own. Law of the land so to speak. As result, these individuals have gone an entirely different path with different foundation. I guess it is cost and simple stubbornness that little education has gone into expanding an old repertoire.
Who's to say, the question now is what are all of us going to do to improve the situation, the breed, and move forward toward a path that is more in line with a standard true to is native origins? There are some really nice animals out there and potential for quality to continue, and to represent the breed in a positive fashion.
Snf
http://www.shibaclassic.com/ClassiccatResults.pdf
There were no Kai entries entered by Classy Kennel at the last NIPPO Classic show. According to Marian, she had to fly out for a judging assignment that weekend.
A recent query on the UKC website did not pull up her name as a UKC judge on the 2010 NIPPO Classic weekend. She judged the weekend before and the weekend after.
None of the Kai entries at the 2010 NIPPO Classic were bred by Classy, too.
*shrug*
Let's hope that this year will be different.