@WhoBitMe I watch videos of dogs on my laptop all the time. My dogs just ignore it. Then one day I was watching a Japanese dude sweet-talking an Akita pup (maybe 8 months old?) and Bijo flipped out. She ran over and woo-wood at me and when I didn't get up, she started trying to flip the laptop with her nose.
Awww....I love this story! She thought, oh, I recognize that!
People always ask me about Mya, but they hardly ever mention Shelby. I think it's her looks and current standoffish personality combined that may be frightening to them. The few that mention her usually ask what Mya is and then ask what I mixed with Shiba to get Shelby...
I find it strange (and slightly annoying) that people will try to argue with me about the breed of my dogs. Do you all have that problem? It doesn't happen all the time but at least 3 out of 10 people will try to draw me into a breed argument.
When people make a guess about Sachis breed and I tell them kai and give them the whole Japanese hunting dog bit I've had people be like "really how do you know, did you get her from a breeder? " if I say yes then im condemned for having a breeder dog not a rescue.
@Kuma123, TOTALLY understand. It's really really strange...with some of them I feel like they're upset they don't know EVERY single dog breed, and they could have sworn they did. So they MUST be right and we MUST be wrong -_-
Yeah, I've run into that too, the "no I don't believe you" thing. And also, because I take my puppies to training at animal humane, which is the only all positive classes in town, I do get some of the rescue snobbery too: oh, you bought your dog. Yes, I did.
I've never got it really bad on that front, but I know people do. It's like the comments (why do I ever read the comments?) on the new Portguese Water Dog in the white house, where people are saying "two dogs died because they bought two dogs from breeders." Uh, no they didn't. It is not an equation: buying a dog from a breeder doesn't equate two dogs dead in a shelter. Because you know, if I didn't buy my dogs from a breeder, I wouldn't HAVE any more dogs, because I'm not just going to go and adopt a random dog.
That's the stuff that ticks me off the most. I think shelter dogs need to be rescued, and people who do are amazing, but buying a dog from a responsible breeder should NOT be treated so criminally and frowned upon by them. -_-
The idea that each dog from a breeder condemns a dog in a shelter is just silly. It is based on a fundamentally flawed assumption: that all dogs are the same and completely interchangeable. That flat out isn't true. What some people are looking for or need for their family simply can't be found in a shelter. And what some dogs need in a forever home may not be easy to find in the random folks who walk in off the street to adopt.
What gets me are the people who pull the overpopulation card but are importing pariah dogs from other countries. They just killed a domestic dog by their own logic.
People do the breed argument all the time with me. Mostly with London. My brother has a hypothesis that the bigger your dog is, the more people will try to engage you in the great breed debate, regardless of what you tell them.
We've even built a drinking game around it for London and his Pyr, Joseph.
I have encountered breed snobbery in the form of people thinking they know everything about akita's including the whole thing about how apparently 'vicious' they are and I have been told so whilst out with my pup on many occasions! I just tell them that a dog is what the owner makes it and any dog of any breed has the potential to be vicious. My mom lives in Ireland and I'm in the UK and she was telling her friend about me getting a JA and her friend gave her a lecture on how they are vicious fighting dogs and am I sure Ican deal with that. Bearing in mind that I have only met this so called 'friend' of my mothers once so she has know idea what I can or cannot handle! it gets me so mad! X(
Also I'm apparently completely selfish for not adopting a rescue dog from a shelter. Whenever anyone has tried to say this kind of thing to me the point I have made to them is that the puppy I bought would have been born wether I bought her or not and she needed a home as much as any other dog.
It all comes down to RESPONSIBILITY and how far you're willing to go to do your part in society.
Irresponsible dog owners and irresponsible breeders cause and contribute to the shelter problem.
Responisble dog owners work hard to raise good dogs and take care of them through thick and thin, as best as they can. Sometimes they luck out and end up with an amazing dog, sometimes not, but they don't abandon them.
Really good people (like my neighbour) try to adopt shelter dogs knowing that they'll have a period of difficulty initially but do their best to raise them.
I think it all comes down to people. There will always be idiots and as a result, the rest of us have to deal with the consequences. I have all the respect in the world for people who rescue dogs. Ethically, I should have done the same, but I was a bit selfish and vain. To make up for this, we ARE looking to adopt an Earthquake dog next year when we go to Japan
Ethically, I should have done the same, but I was a bit selfish and vain.
This is exactly the problem - that people who get dogs from breeders are presumed selfish and vain. Guilt-tripping involved when there does not need to be.
@ayk : I was talking about myself. I wasn't making any presumptions or judgements about anyone else.
I could have adopted, but chose not to. Ethically, I should have adopted, but my reasons for not adopting were selfish. It IS what it is. Yes i have guilt, but maybe because social responsibility weighs heavily on me. What reasons anyone else has to choose from a breeder are their own. I don't judge or presume or heap that shit on others.
In an ideal world, dogs would only be bred thoughtfully and on purpose by responsible breeders. So, why punish people who are part of the solution? Adopting shelter dogs treats a symptom. Not that it's not important and good, but it's not actually a solution, in the larger sense. It's a solution for that one dog, but the greater problem is the constant, steady flow of more and more homeless dogs being produced by careless owners and irresponsible breeders.
@MapleTwinkie - I didn't mean to say that you are making judgements on others, but I think that you may have bought into the idea that "buying means a shelter dog dies" or as you put it, the idea that it's more socially responsible to get a shelter dog.
If you look at your own writing, you wrote "should have" and "to make up for."
If you step outside though, how is importing an Earthquake dog from Japan any less selfish than your dog from a breeder? Why spend so much money on a dog with a story, if there is another dog down the street? Afterall, with the money saved, you could have adopted the local dog and donated the airplane fare to a rescue org. That surely would have been "more socially responsible", would it not?
Instead, isn't it better not to fool ourselves? Every decision to get a dog is influenced by a selfish need, whether it be the desire to be associated with a historical/predictable breed, or the desire to get peer accolades for rescuing a local shelter dog, or the desire to say my rescue dog is even more unique than the local dogs because he came from a different country.
Wherever you (generally speaking) get the dog, make sure ahead of time that the dog will fit in your home and that you'll do right by the dog for the duration of its life.
Actually a friend of mine who works a lot with rescue first begged me to rescue instead of buy. We didn't because it was also a mutual decision and my partner had a strong preference for going through a responsible breeder. She did suggest that I donate an amount (over time) equal to what we paid to the breeder, to shelters/recues of our choice. Personally I think it's a great idea/suggestion. We had been donating here and there anyway, but it gave us a really concrete goal in the first year.
[edited to add]
My friend is not one of those who are super myopic about rescue and breeders (though my partner was annoyed). I told her I would discuss with him since I was open to it (we were still at the stage of investigating breeders) and once I told her the decision was made she told me she wouldn't bring it up again. But she's also a rescue person that thinks that responsible breeders have a place too.
@ayk - why are you criticizing my values and how I plan to contribute to helping out the shelter problem?
Also, I don't subscribe to moral utilitarianism, so NO, none of your above arguments move me.
In Japan, specifically in Sendai (where my hubby's family is from) there are hundreds of displaced dogs that are looking for homes. Helping out a place that has been torn apart by disaster, not to mention that Japan is our family home, is important and meaningful to us.
Again: What reasons anyone else has to choose from a breeder are their own. I don't judge or presume or heap that shit on others.
@MapleTwinkie I think in both posts you have missed the message. You are not being criticized; quite the opposite! By the tone of guilt and shame in your posts ("I was selfish and vain", "Ethically, I should have...", "social responsibility", etc), it sounds like you believe the criticism and propaganda that people heap on those who breed and purchase from breeders. No one is claiming you judge or heap shit on others. But it sounds like you have more than your share of guilt for something which you should not be ashamed of at all. There is NOTHING ethically wrong about going to a reputable breeder instead of rescuing. Be proud of it! There is no moral or ethical obligation to rescue a dog or even have a dog at all. The fact that good people doing good things for their chosen breed and taking good care of their dogs are made to feel guilty, unethical, selfish, and vain is exactly what is wrong with the whole situation. Nobody who loves and cares for a dog to the utmost of their ability should ever be slandered or made to feel guilty, no matter where that dog came from. It is the ones who surrender or abandon their animals who are morally responsible for the dogs in shelters, and the breeders who place with those people in the first place or don't take them back. Period. Put blame where blame is due.
However my views were criticized ( and called "a problem", presumably for all those that hold the same views as me). Ayk then went on with a ridiculous argument on why my wanting to save a displaced dog could be less worthwhile than saving a local dog. Argument aside, it was simply rude.
I was brought up in an incredibly guilt-driven culture. I can't help but feel guilty for getting a dog from a breeder vs. a pound. Yes, I obviously believe that when you have space for a dog, it would be better to help than to not help. How can one criticize someone for feeling that way?
Well, actually, reading these posts, I think Poetic Dragon and Ayk were basically saying the same thing--that it did sound as if you were still suggesting that it is somehow ethically better to rescue a dog (which is how I read your post too), and they are saying that it is not.
The problem Ayk was referring to is the idea that it is morally/ethically superior to rescue a dog rather than buy one. Your first post on this said you didn't believe that, but then it sounds like you kind of do, and were in fact stating that it IS ethically better to rescue a dog. She was refuting your argument as you wrote it, not attacking you in any way.
I feel the same way: I see it as a problem when people try to imply that rescuing a dog is morally superior to buying one. I don't see it that way myself, and I don't like to have people try to guilt trip me on that (but luckily, I'm pretty resistant to that kind of guilt trip).
I do, however, have some issues with people supporting puppy mills, so while I'm pretty much willing to let people make their own choices on where they get their dogs and what dogs they get, I will condemn those that knowingly support mills (and I don't mean buying a dog from one before they understand what mills are). But unfortunately my outrage doesn't really stop it from happening.
Anyway, the whole rescue vs. breeder is so often a false argument. How many people here support rescue? A lot I bet. So in spite of the fact that we've got pure bred dogs (and some rescues!), most of us are still giving money to rescue, working in rescue, or in some way doing something to also help dogs in need. It's not either/or. (Which is why I have a problem Violet_in_Seville's friend saying to donate the same amount as the dog cost over time.....why? I'm all for giving money to rescue groups or shelters, but I'd be super annoyed if someone suggested I had to, or had to give the same amount as I paid for my pure bred dog. It's a false equivilent; the money spent on a dog is not money that would necessarily go to rescue.)
I don't want to distract from the current theme, but... I had a good one today.
Got asked if TK had some Lab in him.
The man had a Chow x Lab that supposedly looked like TK. I'm guessing one of two things: the dog he had was not a Chow x Lab or it didn't look anything like TK.
I think some people have a very poor eye for a dog and what looks "like" one or another... Well... I guess in a grand scheme of things, a Chow x Lab may look like TK much more than it looks like a Chihuahua.
On the adoption note... I want to get dogs from breeders from now on so I can at least ask questions and know the history of the dog I have. I got burned with Sophie. I love this little dog and because of bad breeding, I will most likely only get a few more years with her when I should have many more.
I adopt my cats, though. I always have, for some reason.
@Myabee09 Oh that's an interesting segue into cats. I also have only adopted/rescued/found/been found by cats. But I remember specifically going through breed books as a kid and thinking about what breed of cat I'd buy when I grew up. I remember really liking the look and personality of the Abyssinian and the Bombay. I think a lot of that wishful daydreaming had to do with my mom being extremely allergic to cats and dogs, restricting my childhood pets to rodents.
I think an interesting question is, do rescue cats have fewer behavior problems than rescue dogs? Anecdotally, I would say that's the case, but it's probably all perception and expectation because I expect less from my cats than I do my dogs.
And please excuse the blatant anthropomorphizing, but cats seem to view us, at best, as peers and, at worst, as food and massage-giving servants when they deign to consider us at all. That's not to say that I don't love my cats, and have a really great relationship with one in particular right now, but I also don't expect them to be into my friends when they come over or meet other cats in a friendly manner or be good with all kids or sit for treats or ride nicely in the car, even though they can be good at all of those things; for some reason they just live in a different category (sorry, bad pun) in my mind.
Maybe I've been selling myself short on the cat-lationship front all these years. Nah, as long as they come sit with me when I'm stressed or sad and purr it all away I'm happy to give my feline overlords whatever they want.
My Kai pup that I am picking up tomorrow will be my first dog that isn't a rescue just because I have never been ready for a puppy till now. If someone I meet decides to criticize me for it , the only thing I plan to say is to mind their own friggin' business. If they don't like they can go bitch about it on the internet to someone that cares.
P.S I got my lab/shepherd mix from the shelter when she was six. Best $25 I have ever spent. Had to go to 10+ shelters to find a dog that I though would be compatible. Luckily I chose a near perfect dog. Only problem I have with her is she is a scaredy cat around guns. She will hesitantly tolerate the .22 for killing critters she trees.
Today while standing outside a store with Angirasu, a child approached and asked to pet her. I explained that she was nervous and I didn't want her to get too close. The child kept edging closer and closer. She asked about her breed and gender and why she was nervous (How do you tell a kid "because you're weird, obnoxious, and unpredictable as far as a dog is concerned"?). Then her guardians came out of the store, two women, and the child went back over to them.
I overheard one lady tell the other, "Oh, that's one of those domesticated foxes." "Really?" "Yeah, they're domesticated now in Serbia. That dog came from Serbia." (I think they meant Siberia, but even so, way off!)
To her credit, the child tried to correct her elders and say it was "Anakita" from Japan, but they told her she was wrong.
I think I adopt cats because they seem to have a tougher time. The place I got Jefferson from thought he would never be adopted because of his brain damage. Little did they know I was surfing their website the night his notice was posted and fell head over heels in love. Never regretted my decision either, he is my big man.
Comments
I've never got it really bad on that front, but I know people do. It's like the comments (why do I ever read the comments?) on the new Portguese Water Dog in the white house, where people are saying "two dogs died because they bought two dogs from breeders." Uh, no they didn't. It is not an equation: buying a dog from a breeder doesn't equate two dogs dead in a shelter. Because you know, if I didn't buy my dogs from a breeder, I wouldn't HAVE any more dogs, because I'm not just going to go and adopt a random dog.
People are annoying.
http://retrieverman.net/2011/01/21/black-and-tan-coyote/
http://retrieverman.net/2012/10/06/border-collie-coyote/
http://retrieverman.net/2013/02/03/golden-coyote-2/
http://retrieverman.net/2011/02/27/coyote-marked-like-a-collie/
Saya gets called coydog, husky, wolf and once shiba emu. haha love it
We've even built a drinking game around it for London and his Pyr, Joseph.
Also I'm apparently completely selfish for not adopting a rescue dog from a shelter. Whenever anyone has tried to say this kind of thing to me the point I have made to them is that the puppy I bought would have been born wether I bought her or not and she needed a home as much as any other dog.
Irresponsible dog owners and irresponsible breeders cause and contribute to the shelter problem.
Responisble dog owners work hard to raise good dogs and take care of them through thick and thin, as best as they can. Sometimes they luck out and end up with an amazing dog, sometimes not, but they don't abandon them.
Really good people (like my neighbour) try to adopt shelter dogs knowing that they'll have a period of difficulty initially but do their best to raise them.
I think it all comes down to people. There will always be idiots and as a result, the rest of us have to deal with the consequences. I have all the respect in the world for people who rescue dogs. Ethically, I should have done the same, but I was a bit selfish and vain. To make up for this, we ARE looking to adopt an Earthquake dog next year when we go to Japan
I could have adopted, but chose not to. Ethically, I should have adopted, but my reasons for not adopting were selfish. It IS what it is. Yes i have guilt, but maybe because social responsibility weighs heavily on me.
What reasons anyone else has to choose from a breeder are their own. I don't judge or presume or heap that shit on others.
If you look at your own writing, you wrote "should have" and "to make up for."
If you step outside though, how is importing an Earthquake dog from Japan any less selfish than your dog from a breeder? Why spend so much money on a dog with a story, if there is another dog down the street? Afterall, with the money saved, you could have adopted the local dog and donated the airplane fare to a rescue org. That surely would have been "more socially responsible", would it not?
Instead, isn't it better not to fool ourselves? Every decision to get a dog is influenced by a selfish need, whether it be the desire to be associated with a historical/predictable breed, or the desire to get peer accolades for rescuing a local shelter dog, or the desire to say my rescue dog is even more unique than the local dogs because he came from a different country.
Wherever you (generally speaking) get the dog, make sure ahead of time that the dog will fit in your home and that you'll do right by the dog for the duration of its life.
[edited to add]
My friend is not one of those who are super myopic about rescue and breeders (though my partner was annoyed). I told her I would discuss with him since I was open to it (we were still at the stage of investigating breeders) and once I told her the decision was made she told me she wouldn't bring it up again. But she's also a rescue person that thinks that responsible breeders have a place too.
Also, I don't subscribe to moral utilitarianism, so NO, none of your above arguments move me.
In Japan, specifically in Sendai (where my hubby's family is from) there are hundreds of displaced dogs that are looking for homes. Helping out a place that has been torn apart by disaster, not to mention that Japan is our family home, is important and meaningful to us.
Again: What reasons anyone else has to choose from a breeder are their own. I don't judge or presume or heap that shit on others.
However my views were criticized ( and called "a problem", presumably for all those that hold the same views as me). Ayk then went on with a ridiculous argument on why my wanting to save a displaced dog could be less worthwhile than saving a local dog. Argument aside, it was simply rude.
I was brought up in an incredibly guilt-driven culture. I can't help but feel guilty for getting a dog from a breeder vs. a pound. Yes, I obviously believe that when you have space for a dog, it would be better to help than to not help. How can one criticize someone for feeling that way?
The problem Ayk was referring to is the idea that it is morally/ethically superior to rescue a dog rather than buy one. Your first post on this said you didn't believe that, but then it sounds like you kind of do, and were in fact stating that it IS ethically better to rescue a dog. She was refuting your argument as you wrote it, not attacking you in any way.
I feel the same way: I see it as a problem when people try to imply that rescuing a dog is morally superior to buying one. I don't see it that way myself, and I don't like to have people try to guilt trip me on that (but luckily, I'm pretty resistant to that kind of guilt trip).
I do, however, have some issues with people supporting puppy mills, so while I'm pretty much willing to let people make their own choices on where they get their dogs and what dogs they get, I will condemn those that knowingly support mills (and I don't mean buying a dog from one before they understand what mills are). But unfortunately my outrage doesn't really stop it from happening.
Anyway, the whole rescue vs. breeder is so often a false argument. How many people here support rescue? A lot I bet. So in spite of the fact that we've got pure bred dogs (and some rescues!), most of us are still giving money to rescue, working in rescue, or in some way doing something to also help dogs in need. It's not either/or. (Which is why I have a problem Violet_in_Seville's friend saying to donate the same amount as the dog cost over time.....why? I'm all for giving money to rescue groups or shelters, but I'd be super annoyed if someone suggested I had to, or had to give the same amount as I paid for my pure bred dog. It's a false equivilent; the money spent on a dog is not money that would necessarily go to rescue.)
Got asked if TK had some Lab in him.
The man had a Chow x Lab that supposedly looked like TK. I'm guessing one of two things: the dog he had was not a Chow x Lab or it didn't look anything like TK.
I adopt my cats, though. I always have, for some reason.
I think an interesting question is, do rescue cats have fewer behavior problems than rescue dogs? Anecdotally, I would say that's the case, but it's probably all perception and expectation because I expect less from my cats than I do my dogs.
And please excuse the blatant anthropomorphizing, but cats seem to view us, at best, as peers and, at worst, as food and massage-giving servants when they deign to consider us at all. That's not to say that I don't love my cats, and have a really great relationship with one in particular right now, but I also don't expect them to be into my friends when they come over or meet other cats in a friendly manner or be good with all kids or sit for treats or ride nicely in the car, even though they can be good at all of those things; for some reason they just live in a different category (sorry, bad pun) in my mind.
Maybe I've been selling myself short on the cat-lationship front all these years. Nah, as long as they come sit with me when I'm stressed or sad and purr it all away I'm happy to give my feline overlords whatever they want.
P.S I got my lab/shepherd mix from the shelter when she was six. Best $25 I have ever spent. Had to go to 10+ shelters to find a dog that I though would be compatible. Luckily I chose a near perfect dog. Only problem I have with her is she is a scaredy cat around guns. She will hesitantly tolerate the .22 for killing critters she trees.
I overheard one lady tell the other, "Oh, that's one of those domesticated foxes." "Really?" "Yeah, they're domesticated now in Serbia. That dog came from Serbia." (I think they meant Siberia, but even so, way off!)
To her credit, the child tried to correct her elders and say it was "Anakita" from Japan, but they told her she was wrong.