Ninja's Behaviorist Visit
So when is it? I know its this week (right?)... keep us posted, I'm excited to hear how things go. I hope it exceeds expectations!
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i must not be reading everything.
why is ninja seeing a behaviorist?
He is very fearful and anxious. I got him at 4 months old from a breeder in Missouri. I found him online...so I was asking a ton of questions and it seemed that he was the perfect bundle of joy. When I got him he was very shy, but I figured, new home, new environment, jet lag, it will be fine. Well he warmed up to us within a week, but he would run away and hide when any strangers came over. At his second vet appointment he freaked out and started screaming and pooped while in the arms of my vet. We started conditioning him with strangers using treats. He will now sit or lay in the same room with a stranger no problem and will take treats from their hands. However, if the stranger approaches Ninja he will growl instantly, if the stranger attempts to pet or touch him he will growl more and once they get too close, he will nip at them. He does not get along with other dogs, he won't even let them smell him, its an instant growl when they get close and if i allowed them to stay close, im sure he would bite them.
So, the reason for the behaviorist is to learn how to correct him and learn other ways to help condition him. I tried a bunch of things, and i just thought it would be best to get a professional in here to make sure we're doing all the right things.
Romi, please let me know how things go. I am just returning from the doggie park and Jake's possessiveness blossomed with the thorns of roses.
It starts out fine until 4 large dogs all gather around him, putting him in the middle. Jake immediately insists that the dogs adhere to Shiba etiquette, 3 do, 1 does not, becoming obsessive with Jake, running after him every step of the way. Luckily, the owner witnessed this behavior and calls the dog off, only for the dog to return after a short stint oncel Jake starts playing with other dogs. Jake once again told the dog 'back off' out of my face, so the dog becomes aggressive and grabs jake by the neck, at which time both myself and the dog's owner step in. I am glad to say the owner realized his dog was a problem and took him out of the park. However, that all got Jake's temperment started and he was ready. 23 lbs mind you, with dogs at least 40-50.
Now, it's nice dogs playing ball with their owners, no one paying attention to Jake. So, Jake decides to demand attention from one of the nice dogs by trying to take away the ball from it's mouth. This time I step in, leash Jake and walk with him to the benches, but the 'mine' possessiveness was already in play and Jake was ready to take 'em on. Any dog that came near he and I was immediately greeted with a 'back off' gruff and our social activity had to be cut short.
He has been so much better at the dog park, sharing the water bowl when he use to guard it. He even shared some of the toys with some dogs on occasion. Just seems like when he runs into the one dog that becomes an annoyance, all heck breaks loose.
What can I do to break Jake's possessiveness? I see others on the forum with 3 or 4 dogs, playing nicely with toys. What can I do to achieve that same level of socialization? Can you throw in that question for your pro for me? If I can't stop him, I suppose the park will no longer be an option for us.
I think in the video's what you see is a pack of dogs who know thier place in the pack, that's why they play so well. There is always risk taking your dog out into a public place with other off leash dogs. Some dogs just don't like certain dogs. I wouldn't say he's being possessive. It seems more like he wants attention and someone to play with. Maybe when you see him start being a bully and taking toys from other dogs who are minding their own business, you might want to step in, re-direct him somewhere else with you and try doing some obedience training with him. If there are no dogs there that want to play with him, I would try catching up on some training, he's still in the presence of other dogs and it will help him learn to concentrate and focus on you, even though there are other dogs in the area.
I would always step in when I noticed that Portia was pestering another dog who wasn't interested in her. The owners would say its fine, but I felt that I needed to take control and make sure she knew that some things are ok and some things are not and when I say stop, she needs to stop. So that was good training for her. You might want to use the command "LEAVE IT" We did this with things in their mouths they weren't supposed to have in there or if they were getting too close to something they weren't supposed to go near. Eventually they learned that it meant to leave it alone and move on to something else. So it actually worked really well at the dog park with leaving certain dogs alone.
reading Ninja's issues makes me think that I'm on the right path with our newest rescue - a crazy winding branch covered path - but the right one nonetheless.
although Kitsune is anti social and barks at new people, he will let the vet handle him! and eventually sniffs people when their back is turned.
i'm anxious to see what the behaviorist tells you and what i should look out for in his temperment when it comes time for professional help!
HAHAHAH Rina!
Cant wait to hear. did you go with barkbusters?
Be good litttle Ninja man!
OK! So we just finished our 3 hour session with Frank our dog behaviorist from Bark Busters. I am very pleased with the results so far and he was VERY informative! We learned that we were doing a good job for the most part, but our skills were lacking the in the leadership department and thats the most important thing. Frank decided that he would use Portia as the model dog and we would work with Ninja. He didn't want to put too much stress on Ninja so he thought it would be better if we just worked with him and he showed us the techniques with Portia. Unfortunately, Portia is like the best loose leash walker and he couldn't really do much with her.
From reading Ninja's body language, Frank believes that Ninja doesn't see us as the leaders of the pack, therefor taking on the role of the leader on himself. So the first thing we started out with was leadership. Ninja and Portia always bark when the door bell rings, so we started with that. After about 3 reps of the door bell ringing, Ninja caught on. I was quite amazed how fast he learned.
Then we moved on to the walk. As you all know, Ninja always has to be in front of me. So we started out with walking and whenever he walked in front of me, I would turn and go the other direction. Frank did not want to work with Ninja int he beginning because he didn't want to stress him out. But he decided that he would give it a try and if he noticed Ninja stressing, he would stop. We did a very slow lead trade and then he took the lead and started walking. I was sure Ninja wouldn't walk with him, he protested for a whole 10 seconds and was off with him! I have tried this method before, but I was doing it all wrong. He showed us how to do it, when to correct, when to praise, etc. It took a bit for him to catch on, but after about 10 minutes he was walking next to me!
Then we worked on his Attentiveness. Frank did an example with him and I was blown away! He was listening to his commands and following without a problem. Frank barely had to touch his butt to make him sit, he just pointed to the ground and down went Ninja's butt. He started doing a mix of the Attentive training and the "come" command and it was really amazing how focused Ninja was on Frank. At this point, Frank was able to pet him on the top of his head, no problem! (UNBELIEVABLE RIGHT!?!?!)
Frank then put the super long lead on Ninja to make it seem as if Ninja was off leash to see how well he would react to my commands. He did REALLY WELL! He was following behind me and very attentive. So we really didn't need any corrections in that area. I was really surprised that Ninja wasn't bolting trying to chase after the leaves blowing by (its really windy today). He was just so focused on me!
Anyway, our next session is in 2 weeks. It will be a follow up on the stuff we learned today to see if we have made progress and Frank will be bringing one of his dogs to see Ninja's reaction to other dogs. We will then go to a park with lots of people and other dogs and proceed with training there.
I must say, a lot of the stuff he talked about, John and I already knew about...we just didn't know how to do it. I gained A TON of confidence from this session and im really excited to start being a real leader. Im really happy with the results of the first session and Im excited to see Ninja's progress in the next few months!
I have to work on my "BAH" noise, its pretty pathetic right now, but he says its very important to stick with it. He also gave us 3 of those green pouches with the chains inside to throw next to Ninja to get his attention.
Overall, im very pleased with the experience.
that is wonderful!!
i think we are too ready to believe just because we've read something or watched it on TV, that we can do it with our own dogs. I think a lot of my issues with our rescues is my own confidence!
Keep us updated on your progress - and Ninjas!! I'm so glad to hear it was worth doing for him!!
That's great Romi! It sounds like Ninja was NOT stressed and actually enjoyed the session. I know that you and John will be consistent and your lives are going to be so much easier
Romi it took me a long time to get the BAH down and sometimes i still screw it up. When you are in the moment it can come out awesome. Did you get it for just Ninja or Portia too? Portia doesnt need it and you can get some side tips for her while working with Ninja.
Edit: BAHing at your significant other is a lot of fun, Chad got one today....He was annoying me!
Oh man, it was a high at 91 degree's today! And we were working outside for about 2 hours or so. I don't know who was more exhausted, me or the dogs! Well I just woke up from a 4 1/2 hour nap!!! Its now 8:45 pm. lol. Thanks guys, I am really happy with how it went!
Dave/Rui - I would look into it if you're getting concerned or if you just want to make sure everything you're doing it right, just for some extra advice and information, it can't hurt.
Dorothy - Yeah! I was totally SHOCKED the way Ninja was behaving with Frank. I was so blown away. He seemed more perky and somewhat relaxed, not really giving a care to anything else going on around us. It was awesome!
Rachael - LOL, the BAH is a lot harder than people think. The first one I did, i started laughing mid "BAH" it didn't come out right at all! I sounded like a dying sheep! Frank was saying that he always "BAH"'s at his friends kids on accident just because he's so used to it and his wife does it alot to him as well. So I guess you're not the only one Rach! We only got it for Ninja, we figured we would only pay once and just use him for all the dogs we ever got. He seems really cool about it too, he said anytime we add another dog, just give him a call and he will assist us or he will come down to be there for the introduction.
Brad - DEFINATELY worth the money! After the visit, its like $600.00? No Problem!
I remember some people said they used bark busters before and weren't too pleased with them. It seems that Bark Busters have a lot of independent contractors working under their name. Frank said that he has his own business, and partnered up with Bark Busters. But anywho, There are some good behaviorist/trainers out there, you just got to look for them! So anyone who is looking, DON'T GIVE UP! It took me about 2 months to find Frank, just like looking for a new puppy and researching the breeders, its the same thing with behaviorists
Woo, I feel like this is a new beginning for us! And thank you guys soo much for all your support and advice throughout the weeks of my non-stop anxiety/fear/frustration! I really appreciate you guys and can't thank you guys enough!!! HUGS & KISSES TO EVERYONE!!!
I'm so glad you're having such a great experience! I know Ninja's behavior has been a source of stress and anxiety for you.
It is really tough to find a behaviorist. I've been searching for one for years but I might have found one....if they would just contact me. Tho I think I emailed Victoria's partner, when I meant to email Victoria Stillwell. Dunno how. After the wedding, I'll have to focus on that.
Dave - For praise, its all vocal. Basically, while on lead, you let them stray away or get distracted then you make the "BAH" noise to get their attention and then you kneel down and say "come". When they start to come back you stand up tall and praise with words, "GOOD BOY NINJA" in a very high happy pitched voice.
You can use any word/noise to get their attention, but he just wants us to use the "BAH" noise because that is part of their training. But he said you have to praise them after like 1 second because if you don't , they won't know what it's for.
Then we went to a long lead and started walking and when he got distracted we did the same thing. He said this is a great tool for training because if your dog ever gets loose and is out on the street, he will come to you when called instead of ignoring you and running away. When Ninja was on long lead it was sooo amazing how focused he was on me.
Ill try to get a video of Ninja in training, im not sure if what im writing makes sense.