American Shiba's VS Import Shibas
I've been looking into Shibas more for the wife. I know of course the difference between a JA and a AA but is there a different between Shiba's here in the states or outside of Japan? Is there a difference in appearance or personality? I'm wondering if I should just buy an AKC Shiba or should I be looking for an import or one with import bloodlines?
Thanks,
Jon
Thanks,
Jon
Comments
It's the same breed regardless of being imported or American bred, and the type here from US bred dogs "should" not differ from Nippo dogs. That said, there are a lot of dogs here with obvious poor breeding (like the kind in pet stores), so if you are comparing a mill rescue Shiba to a Nippo grand National winner, yes, there will be a night and day difference. Also, the Japanese breeders don't tend to let their best dogs come here in the first place, so that will limit some of the quality of type.
There are multiple breeders in the US that use a mix of Nippo registered dogs and JKC registered dogs to breed into their AKC stuff as "outcrosses" and to improve type. Usually those dogs brought here to breed to other Nippo registered dogs are dual registered with AKC, as there is only one US event just for Nippo registered Shibas. I think breeding only certain registries (Nippo to Nippo, only AKC to AKC) to one another and excluding the others is a recipe for an even more closed gene pool, which is why imported dogs need to be brought in and not only bred to other Nippo dogs in the US.
Visually, the biggest difference I notice between Nippo winners and AKC champions is bad angulation and bad rears in the imported dogs, compared to the AKC show type which tends to emphasize better movement. Imported dogs often look like tables to me (straight up and down legs), but that is more inline with the ideal type in Japan. In exchange, the AKC show dogs often lack good coat quality and head type, but the well bred dogs do have a lot of health testing behind them and there is usually some idea of any inherited health conditions or temperament issues they go on to produce.
Imported dogs can have sharper temperaments and be very dog aggressive, so "they' say, but can produce really great dogs with sweet and loving personalities. It really really depends on how the dogs are raised and kept imo, with the understanding that there is going to be a baseline genetic disposition they inherit. Most imported dogs are kept in kennels away from direct contact with other dogs except for breeding and showing, and not raised indoors at all. You would probably get a better idea of a future puppies personality by visiting the breeder to meet the parents, which would be hard to do if the parents are in Japan.
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/8311/importing-question/p1
@asgardfox - I have to say I'm a little surprised. I would seriously slow things down a bit and actually meet and get to know the individual breeds. There are a ton more considerations than just the ability to be a good alert dog and you really need to investigate which breed would best suit your lifestyle.
I also wanted to note that of the two shibas I mentioned in your earlier post about alarm barking, both have one AKC parent and one Japanese import parent. In fact they are a full sibling pair from different litters, and even then their temperament ranges quite a bit, though they bear a strong physical resemblance to one another. The alarm barker is much much sharper and higher drive than her brother.
If you were to ask my amateur assessment, I would say that my girl is a better representative of the shiba temperament than my boy. If you were to ask my partner, as much as he loves both dogs, he would take another dog with the temperament of my boy, but not with the sharp temperament of my girl. She is incredibly charming but a more difficult dog than many want to handle, including quite a few dog sitters. You haven't posted many details about what makes you desire a nihonken (just generalities) and what you hope to do with your future dog. This would probably be helpful.
Jon,
I will only caution as I personally do not think shiba's and kids mix. Especially if you get a young puppy. They are very intolerant, and aren't afraid to use their teeth even against family. They are known to correct anyone and everyone.
IMO
A Shiba with a more stable temperament, that was socialized well with children as a pup, would be totally fine with kids. You just need to teach the pup (like all pups) not to use teeth, and teach the kid to respect the dog. No dog, not even a great family dog, is "safe" around kids who do not understand that you can't go screaming and whacking and yanking on the dog.
Sorry to confuse you OP. Now the rest of you , calm down lol I know your shibas are great.
You do have to be very careful in getting a Shiba, though. Unfortunately, the breed has been hurt by popularity and there a lot of puppy mills producing dogs with all sorts of health/temperament issues, as well as a lot of backyard breeders. If you think you'd like a Shiba, I'd strongly suggest joining the Shiba forum and checking out the members only threads on how to choose a good breeder, how to spot a puppy mill, etc, as it will help you avoid mistakes.
And yeah, Lindsay is spot on, of course, in her Shiba advice!
Re: socialization with kids, I think if the kid was around first and shiba second, the shiba has a chance of being socialized. The other way around doesn't work in the Shibas favor, so many young Shibas looking for new homes when their humans decide to breed and the shiba aren't safe for children play date. Kid's high pitched voices can trigger prey drive, there was a baby in Ohio who was killed by the family's shiba last December
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1543992#bmb=1
I think, based on all your previous comments, that you would really prefer a larger dog than a Shiba. Or at least one with a bit more "attitude". Of course, I base that on seeing all the "city-fied" Shibas of Minato-ku. It seems that from the posts here that Americans have bigger and more outdoorsy Shiba Inu than the average person in Tokyo.
I think a larger dog may be to your preference, but perhaps not a large dog like Akita, for family harmony. The medium dogs like Kai, Hokkaido, or Shikoku may perhaps suit all interested parties in your family.
Please take this as a humble, yet biased opinion. I'm a Kai Ken aficionado to the core. The size, energy, personality, hardiness, etc, etc, etc, defines my ideal in a companion, at home and in the deep outdoors. Your mileage may vary. U^ェ^U
And in regards to importing or not: probably no reason to import a Shiba when there are very good dogs being produced in the US (as long as you find the right breeder!)
And that story about the baby and the Shiba? NOT representative of Shibas, and it turns out the baby was premature and could have been injured in the fall. The Shibas are still alive, the story is still being sorted out. The baby did have teeth marks, but was not mauled. Let's not start blaming a whole breed here for ONE incident, which still hasn't even been sorted out yet.
I'm actually really surprised by the idea that Shibas are known for not being good with kids, which is something I've never come across before, despite my years of Shibas. I mean, yeah, be cautious as with any dog, and they're super mouthy as pups, but I've never heard them labeled that way, and it does seem a bit unfair.
If you're looking for a Shiba I would 300% recommend looking into the breeder and their dogs. Go meet them and the potential puppies' parents. I know lots of people here love their Shiba, but they are not the dogs I would take a risk with a small child (especially one as cute as yours!
You might not find a breeder near you, so you might have to plan a road trip like a lot of us have. Adding the best dog possible to your family for the next 15 years is that important.
Even though your wife didn't like the look of the Kai, I still think that if you have your heart set on getting a Nihon Ken, that they are the best choice for your family.
Good luck with your search!