Dogs approaching you off leash...what's the best way to avoid a fight?
I was taking a stroll through my neighborhood last week with Kohji and Taj and came up to a house on the block that has a lot of trees in the front yard, obstructing the view of their yard. I could hear the jangling of a tag on a dog collar, and was thinking “Oh great, I don’t see a fence, I wonder if there’s a loose dog in their yard…”
Sure enough, two old German Shorthaired Pointers came charging through the trees at us onto the road right as we were walking past. The one stayed back and his buddy comes right up to us, inches from Kohji. Kohji is flailing at the end of the leash and Taj is acting like a mini hyena as I’m trying to keep a good hold of their leashes. I am initially facing toward this dog with my two for a split second, and realize I should keep moving away from his domain. I drag them away from this old pointer, and leave him staring at us in the street. It occurred to me a moment later, do fights occur more often when people panic and stand in one spot trying to control their dogs while the off leash one is approaching? Could people avoid fights if they moved away from the approaching off leash dog, increasing their distance and decreasing confrontational body language? I have sometimes walked straight at off leash dogs yelling and flailing my arms and this seems to work too. I’ve never had to use an object like a stick to get a dog away from us yet thankfully.
I was kind of equating this to the dog that shows fear when you lean over in it’s face saying “Oh look at the nice puppy, I wanna give you a kiss” and the dog gives a distance increasing signal such as a growl, you should back up and increase your distance. The dog will then stop growling. The same thing appeared to happen in the instance with this pointer, we increased our distance and the defensive displays stopped and the dog stood in the street just watching us. If I would have stayed in the same spot in the street, I am certain a fight would have occurred. I know every situation is different, and sometimes you can’t help but panic when you are the one being approached, but I’m wondering what your guys’ thoughts are about the best way to avoid a fight with an off leash dog. Do you move away from the dog guarding it’s yard as quickly as possible or do you stand and face toward it, yelling “Git, go home!!” and try to scare it away from you? Also, how have you dealt with off leash dogs that are just roaming outside of their property, because this would be a totally different scenario, they aren't really guarding anything.
Sure enough, two old German Shorthaired Pointers came charging through the trees at us onto the road right as we were walking past. The one stayed back and his buddy comes right up to us, inches from Kohji. Kohji is flailing at the end of the leash and Taj is acting like a mini hyena as I’m trying to keep a good hold of their leashes. I am initially facing toward this dog with my two for a split second, and realize I should keep moving away from his domain. I drag them away from this old pointer, and leave him staring at us in the street. It occurred to me a moment later, do fights occur more often when people panic and stand in one spot trying to control their dogs while the off leash one is approaching? Could people avoid fights if they moved away from the approaching off leash dog, increasing their distance and decreasing confrontational body language? I have sometimes walked straight at off leash dogs yelling and flailing my arms and this seems to work too. I’ve never had to use an object like a stick to get a dog away from us yet thankfully.
I was kind of equating this to the dog that shows fear when you lean over in it’s face saying “Oh look at the nice puppy, I wanna give you a kiss” and the dog gives a distance increasing signal such as a growl, you should back up and increase your distance. The dog will then stop growling. The same thing appeared to happen in the instance with this pointer, we increased our distance and the defensive displays stopped and the dog stood in the street just watching us. If I would have stayed in the same spot in the street, I am certain a fight would have occurred. I know every situation is different, and sometimes you can’t help but panic when you are the one being approached, but I’m wondering what your guys’ thoughts are about the best way to avoid a fight with an off leash dog. Do you move away from the dog guarding it’s yard as quickly as possible or do you stand and face toward it, yelling “Git, go home!!” and try to scare it away from you? Also, how have you dealt with off leash dogs that are just roaming outside of their property, because this would be a totally different scenario, they aren't really guarding anything.
Comments
From my experience there are cases when you have to stand up to them, cases when you need to be proactive and avoid areas where loose dogs might roam free and cases when you need to move out of their range. Unfortunately there is never a win-win situation. If you can't be proactive (and obviously there are many situations when you just can't) any of the other two will leave a mark on your dog.
In the first case he/she learns that once a dog approaches you you go mad and it's a threat that needs to be removed - and maybe next time react more aggressively without need. Of course, you need to assess the other dog and see if you're gonna get attacked. I personally only use it on stray dogs - most of the times they are just showy and flashy but won't bite.
If you choose the third option the dog might shaken a dog's confidence, you fleeing from the aggressive advance of another dog. Of course, this one is questionable.
Whenever we have such a third degree encounter I try to position my dog so as not to face the other one directly and position myself between the two dogs (if possible me too not facing the dog). If needed I say smth on a low and ferm voice towards the dog that is coming towards us - like a Hey or Stop . Afterwards I try my best not to yell at the dog's owner. Doesn't always work, but I really try. If the owner pulls the dog away I stay around a couple more minutes and give my dog some commands or whatever to get him out of that aroused state, go and then come back on the same way to make sure there is no negative association.
Of course, I may be doing it all wrong, but this is what seems to work for me in most cases.
For us, we are usually met with random off-lead roaming dogs, this is our big issues around here. For times like that I will usually pressure them with direct forward movement, leaning into them, and charging at them while yelling for them to "move on". I have found that level of pressure is enough to "cur" any dog... Now, if I started doing that and the dog moved forward toward me I would stop and increase my distance and reevaluate... but that has not happened.
I've also had times where dogs just follow us or linger around us, not close enough for me to scare off, but close enough to be setting our dogs off. In these times I will throw a rock at them - I know, its mean, but the chances of me hitting them are slim and (in case I do hit them) I try to pick a rock that is small enough not to hurt them, but large enough to make my point.
Usually I am in a different boar all together tho, to be honest. I am walking Blue, or Masha, or one of our other dogs that is not tolerant of strange dogs... in those cases it is the other dogs that need to give distance - and so a rock comes in handy there too. I have come to accept the fact that Blue would kill another dog in a situation like that (meaning, his dog aggression is that bad, not trying to make him sound tough - he's really not)... So I do everything I can (shy of never walking him) to prevent that and if it means I need to hit some random roaming dog with a rock then fine - at least they are still living.
The off-lead dog thing kills me.
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I've tested it on my dogs and they either started rolling in the smell or ignore it completely if they're already engaged with their teeth, *but* for an approaching off-lead dog with mild intentions, it can be enough to startle the dog or break eye contact. When it sprays, it creates that unique hissing sound.
I've had friends that just jump up to bear strength pepper spray. I can't bring myself to carry that though, because knowing my luck the wind will probably blow it back onto me.
I've heard other suggestions like the umbrella Tara carries, throwing treats in a different direction, or carrying a fog horn. Haven't tried those yet.
When I got out of the car, K and I got "Warm Welcome" and a "Puppy Kiss" according to the new neighbors. In truth, they moved in so quickly, K and I got pushed up against our front door. I ended up yelling for the owners and afterward we had a little chat. My issue was the owner's feeling that it was OK for his dogs to wander over to our private property.
Sometimes I feel that the government needs to have some type of OSL (Owner Specific Legislation)
And I am 100% for some OSL... There should be a test and a required home inspection before people are allowed to own another living creature.
We're getting into dangerous territory now
...not that I don't think there's something to the idea.
We adopted a 4 year old Norwegian Elkhound mix named Nugget last month, and I've had just once incident while walking her on the trail. A dog about the same size was getting very close to her and snapped in her face a bit. I put myself between them, ignored the dog and kept walking, keeping her close to my side. So far Nugget has been completely uninterested in strange dogs and barely even looked at this dog who was snapping at her.
The suggestions in this thread are great.
I started to say something about loose dogs, then saw they had a van that they were loading up, and thought, well, this could be a case that the dog just jumped out of the car, and I wasn't in the mood to get into it with them anyway, so I just continued on our walk, but...It was scary and could have been bad, because Toby will not back down, no matter what.
It reminded me that I'd stopped walking the dogs in my neighborhood a few years ago because of all the loose dogs, but it had improved (I thought) so I'd started up again. Now I'm wondering if I should carry something with me on walks too? Like the Spray Shield? Because just before that dog came running at us, I'd noticed a new dog in a house about 5 away from us. It was a beautiful, striking dog: looked like a wiemeraner/pit cross--that striking gray color and lean build, but a much bigger pit style head, and yellow eyes. But what worried me was that it was showing what I think of as very serious aggressive dog behavior....it stalked us from the other side of the fence, utterly silent and staring, and the dog's hackles were raised a bit. It kind of freaked me out, actually, esp. since when it got the gate, I noticed the people had not chained the gate well, it looked like to me like that dog could get out if it tried, and I had no doubt it would waste no time in attacking Toby. So I was just thinking about that one, when the loose dog came rushing us....
So I am thinking what would I do if a loose dog attacked a Shiba or (worse!) my akita puppy. Maybe carrying a spray would be worth it for an emergency/
I know the kick is harsh but harsh times require any means necessary to save a dogs life.
http://www.pkpercussion.com/links/2789 jingle stick.htm