search for a dog class rant....
Ok, this is mostly just a little rant because it annoyed me so. I wasn't able to get Oskar into the clicker puppy class with the trainer I wanted to work with in Santa Fe because the class filled up too fast. Then, thinking I could make the shorter drive to Albuquerque rather than SF anyway, I started looking for a clicker training class there. I called around to a lot of places, and what was most frustrating was how people often simply would not tell me what their training methods were. I'd heard this would happen, of course--people say positive training, but are not, but I didn't expect I'd have to really grill people to find out even the most basic information.
This morning I got the worst one: I called a trainer tied to a pet "resort" and asked them about methods. She talked about puppies, and said I could use a clicker if I wanted though "most people use them incorrectly." I had not yet said what I was looking for, so I asked if she helped people learn to use them correctly then, and she said no, but people could bring them if they want. Then she said something about "corrections" and I asked about that. She said they didn't use them in the puppy class, but that adult dogs needed to be corrected, and before I could say anything, went on to say that she often had to use a prong collar or "something stronger" (!) on big adult dogs. (I had not, btw, even told them what breed I had). I managed to interrupt at that point, and said, thanks, but I don't think we agree on this, so this is not likely the class for me. Then she went on a long rant about "balanced" training, and how they'd been doing this for 20 years, blah blah blah, and how positive training just doesn't work. I was trying to be polite, so I just said, "thanks, but we disagree" and was going to thank her for calling me back, when she said "well, you're wrong" and hung up on me! WTF? This is a business! Not just the training, but the kennel, and while I certainly was not looking for a kennel, if I was, I would never take my dog there after that! I wasn't even going to argue about training methods--why would I? I just said, we disagree and wanted to say thanks for your time, but damn!
Yeah, that "balanced" approach pisses me off, because of course it makes positive training look "unbalanced."
On a positive note, though, I found two clicker trainers, one in my area, and one in ABQ. I spent a long time on the phone with the one who is out nearer to me, and really liked her, but she doesn't have any classes at the moment, so I will probably go out and try out one of her classes later. I did find a clicker trainer in ABQ (recommended by Dani Weinberg, btw, if Brad reads this
) and will likely take Oskar to the first class this saturday if I can get into the class (he's a bit younger than the other dogs so we'll see).
Well, I can say this about rude trainer above.....if she automatically assumes I don't know what I'm talking about when she knows nothing about me (not who I am, my dog's age or breed or anything) and she was still that insistent that she was right, then I really would not have wanted to work with her!
This morning I got the worst one: I called a trainer tied to a pet "resort" and asked them about methods. She talked about puppies, and said I could use a clicker if I wanted though "most people use them incorrectly." I had not yet said what I was looking for, so I asked if she helped people learn to use them correctly then, and she said no, but people could bring them if they want. Then she said something about "corrections" and I asked about that. She said they didn't use them in the puppy class, but that adult dogs needed to be corrected, and before I could say anything, went on to say that she often had to use a prong collar or "something stronger" (!) on big adult dogs. (I had not, btw, even told them what breed I had). I managed to interrupt at that point, and said, thanks, but I don't think we agree on this, so this is not likely the class for me. Then she went on a long rant about "balanced" training, and how they'd been doing this for 20 years, blah blah blah, and how positive training just doesn't work. I was trying to be polite, so I just said, "thanks, but we disagree" and was going to thank her for calling me back, when she said "well, you're wrong" and hung up on me! WTF? This is a business! Not just the training, but the kennel, and while I certainly was not looking for a kennel, if I was, I would never take my dog there after that! I wasn't even going to argue about training methods--why would I? I just said, we disagree and wanted to say thanks for your time, but damn!
Yeah, that "balanced" approach pisses me off, because of course it makes positive training look "unbalanced."
On a positive note, though, I found two clicker trainers, one in my area, and one in ABQ. I spent a long time on the phone with the one who is out nearer to me, and really liked her, but she doesn't have any classes at the moment, so I will probably go out and try out one of her classes later. I did find a clicker trainer in ABQ (recommended by Dani Weinberg, btw, if Brad reads this
) and will likely take Oskar to the first class this saturday if I can get into the class (he's a bit younger than the other dogs so we'll see).Well, I can say this about rude trainer above.....if she automatically assumes I don't know what I'm talking about when she knows nothing about me (not who I am, my dog's age or breed or anything) and she was still that insistent that she was right, then I really would not have wanted to work with her!
Comments
I agree that I would not have used their training or kennel services. Those people do not know the business that they could be getting by just agreeing to disagree.
Hopefully the trainer that you found in ABQ will be great.
The first doggy daycare that I brought Koda to was highly recommended. I met with the woman, and she seemed so sweet. She was a certified trainer, albeit not mine, and kept the dogs active all day. I was super stoked that Koda got into her daycare. The third day I went to pick him up, I saw her outside with Koda on a 20 foot lead. Right away, I thought oh how cute she's working on recall with him. Then I noticed it! My four month old puppy had a big ol' prong collar on him!!!!! I calmly walked over, took it off Koda's neck, and kissed him between the eyes (this has always calmed me and him down). I put him in the car without saying a word, went back in and gave her my opinion about her training him with a prong collar without asking me first. I didn't flip, but I was ticked off. Koda is so sensitive. These methods would have made him the most fearful dog in the world. She told me that I would never be able to train him properly without it because he is too stubborn. Yes, Koda is very stubborn. I noticed it too within the first five minutes of picking him up. He still to this day is stubborn, but we compromise and work together.
Go with your gutt. This woman does not seem like someone you would want around your dog. Koda and I never returned to that woman.
Then on the last day of puppy classes she did a small grooming exercise on all the dogs now treat and conditioning methods were used on all other dogs until she came to my big AA puppy she started scolding him and holding his mouth shut when he was mouthy and using the full Ceaser Millan flooding method trying to cut the dogs nails.
Now i quickly intervened and said "we do that at home don't worry about it" so she backed off.
Then It came to letting the puppy's off lead and she told me to leave my dog on lead because last time she thought he was showing hunting instincts WTF he plays with the other dogs nicely.
So I sympathise it is very hard to find a positive method trainer that is patient and doesn't get involved in breed hype, dogs are dogs they all just posses different natural abilities to do different jobs for there owners
My AA puppy is big too (like ramps), of course, and soft as can be, and a prong collar would just destroy him (and his happy puppy view of what a wonderful place the world is!) as would the kind of flooding Ramps is talking about (and that pisses me off that they wouldn't let your boy play with the other dogs.....Oskar plays really well with other dogs too, even tiny dogs...he just gets gentler the smaller the dog is). I mean they are PUPPIES!
And yes, re: business....sure I disagreed with their methods, but we don't all have to agree. If they'd simply said, well it might not be the right class for you, but thanks for your interest, I wouldn't have come away with such a bad view of the business as a whole....
And yes, the class is both because he needs more socialization with dogs other than my crazy Shibas, but also because I don't really get the clicker method myself yet....I need help clicking at the right time, etc, so it's really more for me, too.
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--I am not sure who it is on the other side/shiba forum, but there is one person who takes their dog to two different classes. Look to trulydogfriendly.com or Karen Pryor to find a better fit.
--The "well you are wrong lady" is she on crack....really she actually called you back to say that? Speaks a lot about professionalism. Tells you a lot about the training too if she is that impulsive.
--As far as clicker training. The better places will actually pair you off with a human to practice to begin with. Humans have to be put on cue and coordinated too.
Snf