Our Kai are crated when we leave and they don't show any separation anxiety. We have a lot of dogs tho, so our Kai are not as coddled and spoiled as they would be if we just had one.
I really feel the key is not make a big deal out of leaving them or coming home to them. When you leave, say nothing to them and just leave - give them a kong or something that will occupy them mentally and then sneak out the back door. The key is to distract them from the actual act of leaving them.
Then, when you get home, leave them in the crate for a bit before you let them out. This helps to break the association of getting home and letting them out right away.
Really, what it comes down to is, avoid the exuberant greetings. If you make a big deal out of you getting home or you leaving, then it adds to the stress of your dog, which exacerbates separation anxiety.
@brada1878 Good tips! ChoCho tends to freak out nowadays when we leave and doesn't want to go in her crate when we need her too. To the point that she doesn't want to eat in her crate anymore and when I put her in she just tries to get out, whimpers, and doesn't eat...
I conveniently forgot to mention the destruction of my patio cushions... lol, it was done by total puppy terror though. A tag team event with Kunai and Kitora...grrr :P
I just picked up an airline crate that is 28L X 19W X 20H to ship my puppy with. I know it it will be way too big but I though it might fit an adult Hokkaido for car rides ect. I am planning on crating training the dog and look forward to everyone's advice on the matter. Luckily for us (?) we will have no furniture or anything else for that matter for the puppy to get into when we first move back.
Yeah, crate the dogs for sure! My mature dogs do not have to be crated (well, some need to be separated for other reasons) but I did not trust any of mine out of the crate alone until they were 2 years old or older. (Except the Akita, who wasn't even destructive as a very young puppy).
Both Shibas got into things when they were unsupervised as pups.
My Kai Ken teenager wasn't too bad as a small puppy, but of course, we would never dream of leaving him unsupervised out of the crate. Then he hit puberty and started getting into EVERYTHING. I put him in the crate if I'm even going out of the room, because he scopes out what he wants and waits, and snatches things. Like phones and cameras--stuff like that. None of which is in the reach of a normal dog, of course, but is perfectly in reach of a climbing Kai, who seems to be able to get to everything (well, I think the top of the refrigerator would be safe). He can remember things he wanted for hours, days even, so he really can't be unsupervised at all. (He's almost 10 months old btw).
But I wouldn't leave any puppy or young dog free and unsupervised.
I'm a fan of large crates, because it gives them lots of space. None of mine cause problems in their big crates. I have a giant crate (seriously like pony sized) that I bought at the thrift store (I get all my crates used), and it is technically for the Akita, who does eat in there, but the other dogs get rotated through it. One Shiba sleeps in there at night and the Kai stays in there during the day if I'm not in the room with him. He sleeps in a crate upstairs with us. It's also fairly big, but not giant. I think it's the same one Hinata linked (though I only have the one door variety).
(I wouldn't get a big crate for a puppy though unless you had a divider.)
I don't think they chew any more than any other dogs, but they sure do climb and leap onto things more than other dogs!
Lol, yes the puppy terror stopped and I received a most expressive apology from Kitora (she's older than Kunai and succumbed to his antics :P she was oh! so sorry!! lol) Neither of them touch the beds/pillows/cushions in the house (again, socks are the only victims anymore) - I haven't replaced my patio cushions yet, so I honestly couldn't say that they might not "try" it again...??? We'll see this summer when we can be out on the patio again and the dogs will be mostly grown by then. Kunai is 9-10 months??? Is that right @tjbart17 ?? I'm a little lost time wise right now, lol And Kitora is 1 yr 3 mths. So, I suspect by this summer all the last little bits of puppy antics will for the most part be over...
@poeticdragon I guess we will have to see how big the pup is closer to the flight. It is not a huge crate (large for Japan but a US medium?) but i think we will need to put in some kind of divider to make it a bit more snug. I just happened to see it on craigslist and it was in my neighborhood in Tokyo, the chance of that happening is pretty unbelievable. An Aussie guy used it only once to bring his Jack Russel to Japan but unfortunately just after they got here the dog was diagnosed with cancer and died shortly after.
I'm pretty sure all Kai climb and jump. That's part of what they do--they were bred to hunt in the steep mountains. Nothing seems to deter my guy, but who knows? I could care less about him being on the top of the sofa or the bed, but I do wish he wouldn't climb up the bookcases, or jump up on the table!
I think you should really go and meet some Kai. I remember first meeting a whole pack of Kai at Brad's house (Yamabushi) and he said they were rude, but I thought they were fine. I think it was a good intro. too--Kai climbing on me, on the sofa, walking across the top of the crates, etc. Kai like to be up high.
I was just telling my agility trainer that, and she said, well, if people don't have a good tolerance for that, it's probably not the breed for them. Exactly!
Oh, here's a link to a Kai video from one of our forumite's blog:
@shibamistress I don't mind sofa and bed jumping either but I don't want a dog jumping on a dinner table or somewhere to high and somehow ends up hurting itself trying to get down.
@cdenney even off slippery surfaces? The dinner tables and countertops in the kitchen at my house are really slippery so I don't want the dog jumping down and its back legs slip or something and it ends up losing its momentum and balance.
My boy jumps up like that all the time. Dining room table, bookcases--the other day I saw him trying to climb up onto the stove. And no, they don't seem to get hurt jumping up or back down! It's actually pretty amazing, and yeah, not like any other dog I've ever had (sometimes my other dogs look at him, like WTF? Why would you do that?)
They're smart dogs--you can train them not to get up on stuff...I guess. I haven't had much success yet because nothing bothers him...not making an "naaah, naah, naah" noise, or redirecting him (I mean he will be redirected, but he goes right back to what he was doing as soon as he sees the chance!). I'm sure a lot of this is puppy craziness though, and will stop as he gets more mature. Right now we're trying to focus it into jumping and climbing on cue for his agility class, rather than just doing it whenever he feels like it.
I'm not that worried about it though, but he does need a lot of exercise, both mental and physical, to keep him out of trouble in the house.
My dogs will jump up on the couch and bed, but have been trained to stay off tables and counters. There is one end table next to the door they are allowed to stand on, but none of the other tables. Mine are very good about following those rules.
Our Kai will snitch food left on the table and counter but don't jump up on them. Haven't ever (yet, lol) They put their feet on the chairs or counter edge and lick it off. They get busted with an "ahahah!!" and are told to get down - they do. We have rules for that much like @sjp051993)
They do like to perch and climb on the patio table and chairs too (it's a lower one closer to a foot rest than an actual table) We will be building them a doggie deck this summer - just something for them to have a lookout on. They really do enjoy that (looking out). We've also never had a bookcase issue... I don't know what we'd do if that happened!!! lolol
Kunai will also perch his but on top of one of the dogloo's that we have.. it's cute.
I started the training young using the off command. If they would put their feet on the table, I would use a treat to move them away and off the table. As they got down I gave the command off. They quickly learned putting your feet on the table or counter will not get you anything.
I think Leo will get it pretty quickly. He just started doing this kind of stuff in the last month or so. (He's almost 10 months old). We're having some progress with diversion (in my case I've been pointing to where I want him to go, and when he sits, he gets a treat, kind of like in his agility class, so he's getting it. He doesn't do it in front of us, of course or it would be easier. He's sneaky, and waits til we're not paying attention! It's not even food that he's after--it's stuff like pens, or the mouse for the computer, or the phone or something.
And it's not like I want him doing this stuff--he just does! And like most puppy naughtiness, it will pass, so I'm not to worried about it.
@Saya This is will not be my first dog, in fact it will be my third dog that I own. I have owned a Chihuahua and a German Shepherd before. But I used to work in a Doggie Daycare so I handled about 50 other dogs that were not my own on a daily basis.
I was actually drawn to the Australian Cattle Dog breed before I decided on the Kai Ken. After reading about and meeting some Australian Cattle Dogs I decided that that dog was way too much dog for me as it seems like they did not have an off switch. I initially did discover the Kai Ken a couple years ago as I was interested in the Akita and when I was researching the Akita the Kai Ken always showed up as a similar dog breed suggestion on google. But once I saw that Kai Kens were rare I just overlooked them and moved on. I wanted a dog that was active but could be calm indoors, be intelligent, obedient, and loyal enough to be my service dog, be an average shedder (after owning a German Shepherd I never want to see that much fur ever again lol), a medium size dog, and have enough drive to play fetch with a ball/frisbee. All these traits matched the Australian Cattle Dog except the calmness indoors part. So I decided to go back and look at breeds that I might have missed the first time around and then from out of nowhere the Kai Ken popped into my head and I decided to do some real research on them and take a chance and here I am. Their looks and pure awesomeness are just a bonus to the breed.
We have trained/done exactly the same thing that @sjp051993 has done and it works very well. We have end tables at the end of our couches and the dogs will lay on the arms and back of the couch (acceptable for us) but keep off of the coffee and side tables completely. As for the stealing food left on the kitchen table - we agree, we don't approve but I don't think it's just a Kai thing. I think that would not be such an issue for us if we could train the daughter (lol, j/k - kinda) to never leave food out on the table so they don't ever get "rewarded" for sticking their noses up there!!!! I had a heeler dog that was notorious for stealing food from ANYWHERE! I had to always have everything locked up and out of sight/smell. So, I think if a dog figures out they can do something and get a tasty treat, it's harder to train them not to for a less tasty treat.... lol
Without comparing specific traits I would say they both need a similar amount of stimulation, just in different ways, if that makes sense.
However, the heelers energies were MUCH harder to redirect than the Kai's in my opinion. The heeler, for me, had too much of a need to "control" situations. But, that's their duty in life....I loved him dearly his whole life but he was a challenging dog at times and much more "hard" (again by nature). A Kai is much more sensitive, I think. And I like that!
Our Kai (in my experience) have a much more laid back temperament compared to the Heelers that I have known when in the house, and are much more friendly, imo. Saying this with a grain of salt as I've grown up around actual working ranch heelers - the kind where you don't ever stick your hand near one when it's in the back of "it's" truck - if you know what I mean... lolol
Our Kai love to play multiple different games with us (and activities/training) and all is done with just a love, joy and zest for life. They are so unique to me in their temperament.... I can't say that I've met a dog that I could say they are "like" and I think others on here would agree.
One big difference that stands out to me right now is that a heeler is zeroed in on you 100% of the time... a Kai is more independent and has a longer (what I like to call) invisible leash.
Off leash my heeler would only go about 15-20 feet from me at the most... a Kai will go further if recall is not firmly in place and a scent catches their nose. Recall is very essential to have very well established with a Kai before ever ever going off leash! )
Yeah, heelers are way cool for what their purpose is. In college I had mine trained to help me when feeding livestock and he was awesome. Totally thrived in that scenario. They need to have that "purpose" in life, where it seems to me that a Kai is happy as long as they are exercised and doing "something" mentally invigorating.
Comments
I really feel the key is not make a big deal out of leaving them or coming home to them. When you leave, say nothing to them and just leave - give them a kong or something that will occupy them mentally and then sneak out the back door. The key is to distract them from the actual act of leaving them.
Then, when you get home, leave them in the crate for a bit before you let them out. This helps to break the association of getting home and letting them out right away.
Really, what it comes down to is, avoid the exuberant greetings. If you make a big deal out of you getting home or you leaving, then it adds to the stress of your dog, which exacerbates separation anxiety.
I conveniently forgot to mention the destruction of my patio cushions... lol, it was done by total puppy terror though. A tag team event with Kunai and Kitora...grrr :P
Luckily for us (?) we will have no furniture or anything else for that matter for the puppy to get into when we first move back.
Yeah, crate the dogs for sure! My mature dogs do not have to be crated (well, some need to be separated for other reasons) but I did not trust any of mine out of the crate alone until they were 2 years old or older. (Except the Akita, who wasn't even destructive as a very young puppy).
Both Shibas got into things when they were unsupervised as pups.
My Kai Ken teenager wasn't too bad as a small puppy, but of course, we would never dream of leaving him unsupervised out of the crate. Then he hit puberty and started getting into EVERYTHING. I put him in the crate if I'm even going out of the room, because he scopes out what he wants and waits, and snatches things. Like phones and cameras--stuff like that. None of which is in the reach of a normal dog, of course, but is perfectly in reach of a climbing Kai, who seems to be able to get to everything (well, I think the top of the refrigerator would be safe). He can remember things he wanted for hours, days even, so he really can't be unsupervised at all. (He's almost 10 months old btw).
But I wouldn't leave any puppy or young dog free and unsupervised.
I'm a fan of large crates, because it gives them lots of space. None of mine cause problems in their big crates. I have a giant crate (seriously like pony sized) that I bought at the thrift store (I get all my crates used), and it is technically for the Akita, who does eat in there, but the other dogs get rotated through it. One Shiba sleeps in there at night and the Kai stays in there during the day if I'm not in the room with him. He sleeps in a crate upstairs with us. It's also fairly big, but not giant. I think it's the same one Hinata linked (though I only have the one door variety).
(I wouldn't get a big crate for a puppy though unless you had a divider.)
I don't think they chew any more than any other dogs, but they sure do climb and leap onto things more than other dogs!
@shibamistress Do all Kais climb or does it depend on the individual puppy? Also can the climbing/leaping be controlled at all?
@MirkaM Was the destruction in your pictures a one time thing? Or did it happen very often?
Her anxiety was significantly reduced after I got a second dog
I think you should really go and meet some Kai. I remember first meeting a whole pack of Kai at Brad's house (Yamabushi) and he said they were rude, but I thought they were fine. I think it was a good intro. too--Kai climbing on me, on the sofa, walking across the top of the crates, etc. Kai like to be up high.
I was just telling my agility trainer that, and she said, well, if people don't have a good tolerance for that, it's probably not the breed for them. Exactly!
Oh, here's a link to a Kai video from one of our forumite's blog:
http://nihonken.blogspot.com/2012/12/kai-ken-vs-wall.html
They're smart dogs--you can train them not to get up on stuff...I guess. I haven't had much success yet because nothing bothers him...not making an "naaah, naah, naah" noise, or redirecting him (I mean he will be redirected, but he goes right back to what he was doing as soon as he sees the chance!). I'm sure a lot of this is puppy craziness though, and will stop as he gets more mature. Right now we're trying to focus it into jumping and climbing on cue for his agility class, rather than just doing it whenever he feels like it.
I'm not that worried about it though, but he does need a lot of exercise, both mental and physical, to keep him out of trouble in the house.
They do like to perch and climb on the patio table and chairs too (it's a lower one closer to a foot rest than an actual table) We will be building them a doggie deck this summer - just something for them to have a lookout on. They really do enjoy that (looking out). We've also never had a bookcase issue... I don't know what we'd do if that happened!!! lolol
Kunai will also perch his but on top of one of the dogloo's that we have.. it's cute.
@sjp051993 How did you train them to do that?
And it's not like I want him doing this stuff--he just does! And like most puppy naughtiness, it will pass, so I'm not to worried about it.
You can teach the dog not to get up on the table. Teaching an off and on command is good so if you need the dog on the couch or off of it etc..
Will this be your first dog? What drew you to the kai ken breed?
I was actually drawn to the Australian Cattle Dog breed before I decided on the Kai Ken. After reading about and meeting some Australian Cattle Dogs I decided that that dog was way too much dog for me as it seems like they did not have an off switch. I initially did discover the Kai Ken a couple years ago as I was interested in the Akita and when I was researching the Akita the Kai Ken always showed up as a similar dog breed suggestion on google. But once I saw that Kai Kens were rare I just overlooked them and moved on. I wanted a dog that was active but could be calm indoors, be intelligent, obedient, and loyal enough to be my service dog, be an average shedder (after owning a German Shepherd I never want to see that much fur ever again lol), a medium size dog, and have enough drive to play fetch with a ball/frisbee. All these traits matched the Australian Cattle Dog except the calmness indoors part. So I decided to go back and look at breeds that I might have missed the first time around and then from out of nowhere the Kai Ken popped into my head and I decided to do some real research on them and take a chance and here I am. Their looks and pure awesomeness are just a bonus to the breed.
As for the stealing food left on the kitchen table - we agree, we don't approve but I don't think it's just a Kai thing. I think that would not be such an issue for us if we could train the daughter (lol, j/k - kinda) to never leave food out on the table so they don't ever get "rewarded" for sticking their noses up there!!!!
I had a heeler dog that was notorious for stealing food from ANYWHERE! I had to always have everything locked up and out of sight/smell. So, I think if a dog figures out they can do something and get a tasty treat, it's harder to train them not to for a less tasty treat.... lol
What helped was put food out of reach when out of the room. She no longer tries it, but once in a while will so she isn't 100% trained not to.
At least if she tries it when I'm in the room I can tell her leave it and she listens and walks in room like she never tried anything.
Kai ken are smart breed so I'm sure with work and training you can teach which is ok to go up on and what isn't.
Saya my shiba never goes up on the table, but she loves being on the back of the couch or on a small table thing by the couch..
Saya would get off of it if told to and I don't mind it on that, but if I did I would just tell her get back on the couch.
Saya isn't athletic enough to get on a table.
Things will be fine I'm sure. I never owned a kai ken before, but I'm sure they can be taught not to jump on tables.
However, the heelers energies were MUCH harder to redirect than the Kai's in my opinion. The heeler, for me, had too much of a need to "control" situations. But, that's their duty in life....I loved him dearly his whole life but he was a challenging dog at times and much more "hard" (again by nature). A Kai is much more sensitive, I think. And I like that!
Our Kai (in my experience) have a much more laid back temperament compared to the Heelers that I have known when in the house, and are much more friendly, imo. Saying this with a grain of salt as I've grown up around actual working ranch heelers - the kind where you don't ever stick your hand near one when it's in the back of "it's" truck - if you know what I mean... lolol
Our Kai love to play multiple different games with us (and activities/training) and all is done with just a love, joy and zest for life. They are so unique to me in their temperament.... I can't say that I've met a dog that I could say they are "like" and I think others on here would agree.
One big difference that stands out to me right now is that a heeler is zeroed in on you 100% of the time... a Kai is more independent and has a longer (what I like to call) invisible leash.
Off leash my heeler would only go about 15-20 feet from me at the most... a Kai will go further if recall is not firmly in place and a scent catches their nose. Recall is very essential to have very well established with a Kai before ever ever going off leash!
Does that answer your question, kinda???
@Saya - that is a super cute picture of her!!! :x