I definitely get tired of the same questions over and over again. I try to answer politely, but I have gotten to the point where I only take the dogs out when I feel like I can handle the bombardment. Otherwise, I just take them to work with me. Nobody bothers me when I'm up to my elbows in dog hair
@rikumom can I ask what you meant by that comment? im not offended. just curious to your specific meaning behind it. @myabee09 I would love to be that same way. except thats not good for my puppy becuase we are working on leash training so I pretty much take him out every day for practice/play time on the leash. @Edgewood I was stopped when walking my shiba pup by a group of five or six kids under the age of 12. All i got was "what is he? hes so cute! he must be a fox! he looks like a fox! " for probably ten minutes while i stood between the group and my pup so he didnt get bombarded. Its definately frustrating!
@bmass49 I think @rikumom 's comment was a compliment. Breeders get asked the same questions over and over again, and not to get frustrated and have the patience to answer them all is good virtue!
@bmass49, @MapleTwinkie captured my sentiments exactly. I in the other hand do not have that kind of temperament.
I think back in the days when it was just Riku, a retired show shiba, I didn't mind answering questions about him b/c he is a pretty good representation of the breed. While the midget long coat JA just looks so different from her kind, and not wild looking like a small fox/coyote, that I have to watch people from rubbing her head.
so it seems most of you have multiple NK, I love my shiba guy, and would love to get either an Akita or Shikoku. Any thoughts/experiences with the shiba and one of these being together?
There's a thread on Shibas and Shikoku already--check that out.
I have a Shiba and Akita and Kai Ken. A lot of people think the Shiba/Akita mix is bad because Shibas are so snarky, and if they get into it with an Akita, they will certainly lose. I think it can work if you're careful, vigilant, and get a soft Akita. Mine works mostly (though we brought the Akita in as a pup) but there are times the Shiba is so in his face and won't back down that we've had to intervene. Luckily, in addition to be soft-tempered, he is soft mouthed, so when he's bit her, he's show extraordinary bite inhibition. (more then most dogs would when she was biting him!) I think it can work, but you do need to have the right dogs, and be cautious.
The Shiba/Kai mix is great--Kai are often great at getting along with other dogs, and they are generally not going to start trouble.
Oh man, with my Kai, I really feel like I need to start attaching a sign to her that reads "hello, my name is Kona. I am a Kai Ken (and yes I am pure bred, not a mix). And yes that IS a real breed" LOL. I swear i have this little spiel that i have down to a science. Because it's always the same questions xP BUT, people LOVE heearing about a new breed and SO many have asked about her kennel because they are interested, so the spiel on repeat like a broken record is worth it i guess hehe
@mdokic thanks for the laugh. I feel like the sign would be helpful to the people but hinder the dogs (or atleast mine because of his excitement level) : ) maybe ill recod it on my phone and play it to people when they ask so that i never forget anything.. Hmm : )
@shibamistress i have looked at the thread you mentioned and read through much of it. however, i did not see much as for the akita side of things. I very much adore the look and size of the akita, i am just cautious becuase of the issues i have heard about temperment wise. Perhaps i will do some temperment searching in the Akita category.
OH yes hahaha. Literally everywhere you go someone will ask you about him/her and follow up with lots of questions. I've even gotten multiple times "is that a FOX?" or "is that a COYOTE?" lol, NOO! :P
My Akitas tolerate a lot from other dogs/puppies/small dogs. As shibamistress said if you get a soft Akita it should be ok. My Akitas are so very gentle and even allow my Yorkie/Schnauzer mix to act snarky and there is no reaction from the Akitas at all.... (I do correct her for her snarkiness) They lat down to play with her, too. The Shibas they have met have been the same and they have done exceptionally well together. We had family visit in March and they brought 3 small dogs with them. It was chaos and they are yappy, loud, in your face dogs and all of my Akitas amazed me with their patience and the ability to ignore/overlook the other dogs when they were being difficult.
@bmass49, I think a lot depends on your shiba's temperament. Below is a copy of Riku's fur-sibling wanted letter from 2011, though after rejecting one teenage shiba female, we pretty much ruled out any adult dog and decided to get a puppy JA. We're part of the AKIHO club LA Branch, and at least 3 other members have shibas and JAs living together.
When we used to go to puppy socials, the trainers often describe the shibas as snarky [with other dogs], especially compared to the Golden Retrievers and -doodle mixes who never cause trouble. It's all in perspectives.
--- Hi, my name is Riku and I am looking for a submissive fur-sibling to boss around while my parents are at work, and go on brunches/walks/hikes with on the weekends.
Here are my vital stats: Breed: shiba inu Age: 10.5 Color: red Gender: neutered male Weight: 22.5#, give or take a pound when I'm in/out of coat User-Friendliness: 100% user-friendly with human kind, needs personal space with canine kind, would like to make friends with feline kind Conformation: retired show dog Diet: rotation diet consisting of Orijen kibble & the Honest Kitchen, supplemented with seasonal fruits Agility Prowess: weak hocks cost me my show career :-( Athletic Ability: fetch-challenged, more suitable for eating contest Disposition: calm, I can demonstrate gravitas Education: mom enrolled me in basic obedience Energy: low, unless there is food or feline kind around Herding Instinct: will herd other canines to make sure they don't get into my food Hunting Instinct: my mom complains that I don't do anything with the resident squirrel population... Gardening Skills: none Grooming: I get a professional bath and brush out every 4-6 weeks at the Spa for Pets Intelligence: can demonstrate basic obedience skills in the presence of treats Nationality: Japan Noise-level: heavy breather when excited, otherwise mute
Here are my parents' requirements. Either: Retired show shiba Age: under five would be ideal, but more important is to have a calm disposition Color: B&T preferred but anything other than sesame will do Gender: not specific, mom & dad will neuter/spay anyways Weight: under 20# if bitch, HWP if dog User-Friendliness: dog submissive a must Energy: low to medium -my parents can't deal an energizer bunny but will happily send my fur sibling to doggie day care twice a week if needed Hunting Instinct: squirrel hunters a plus Gardening Skills: diggers need not apply
or
A submissive Japanese Akita puppy bitch in any color but brindle. My parents already named her Sookie
@bmass49 - also keep in mind that a lot of shibas get much less tolerant after age 2. I have an outlier from lines known to be particularly people oriented. She was extremely dog oriented before age three and now she is pretty intolerant of rude dogs. We incorporated her older, retired show dog full brother into the household when she was about 1.5, but it's more due to his calmness. FYI she was actually very good at reading dog language and still is, but her tolerance is notably diminished.
My Akita is soft, but doesn't really tolerate snark well. He does from the dogs he lives with, but not other dogs. I think he's ok with these dogs because he grew up with them as a puppy. It took a long time to get him used to our Kai Ken, though, and he doesn't like puppies. (he HATES dogs jumping in his face).
Also, he does not get along with our other Shiba at all. That Shiba bit him when he (the Akita) was a puppy, and he remembers, and he also sees how our female Shiba has a pathological hatred of that dog, so he hates him too. He broke a window trying to get at him. And he's a pretty soft dog, not immediately dog aggressive. So it depends very much on the individual dogs involved, and you have to really be on top of watching them and managing, because it can go bad quickly.
Also if you have a Shiba, you're going to have a hard time finding a breeder who will sell you an Akita, and rescue is pretty much impossible (my local Akita rescue was an exception to that). The vast majority of rescues/breeders I talked to turned me down flat because of the Shiba. There were a few who listened, understood I was experienced with handling difficult dogs and already was living with dogs that have to be permanently separated, and they were willing to talk further. But many just turned me down. While I don't like that, I do understand that with the Shiba/Akita mix, if both turn their natural tendency to reactivity to one another, the Shiba could get very hurt. Some people just don't want to do deal with that, and I also thought that some breeders that turned me down without further conversation might know something I did not--such as the fact that their dogs might tend more to dog aggression than less.
So if you decide to go with an Akita, expect to have a fairly long search. and be really careful--lots of bad breeders out there in the Akita world too, though perhaps not quite as many as the sheer numbers in the Shiba world. And I'm talking about American Akitas here. If you're going for a Japanese Akita, it might be an even longer wait, simply because there are so few breeders.
@bmass49 the only reason I don't really worry about the leash thing is because we go on lots of walks and I'm training Shelby to be off leash as well as leashed. Plus she is in doggy daycare at work and gets all the socialization she could ever want!
@shibamistress you mention your Shiba being snarky, is this normal? Mya isn't snarky at all, and it seems like she is in the minority. I researched Shibas before I wound up getting her and she just doesn't fit the mold of what I expected. She puts up with almost anything! Not like either is a bad thing, I'm just curious... Could it have something to do with umbilical training? We did that for about 4 months to builds up her trust with me since I was her third owner by the time she was 2. I just expected more aloofness and attitude from her. She even puts up with my chihuahua's attitude!
One of my Shibas was always difficult with other dogs, and the other didn't become so until after she was 2. It depends on the dog, but shibas get less tolerant of other dogs as they get older, and a lot of them seem to change a lot after 2.
Ok. She's 4 now, so I guess she won't change too much if she hasn't already? Thanks so much for your input! I've met other Shibas before and they were usually friendly, but not as outgoing with it as Mya. Doesn't change my opinion of the breed one bit tho... I have said since the day I got Mya that I'll probably never own another chi again, but I will always have a Shiba, personality quirks and all! I think I'm smitten.
@Shibamistress and @rikumom you say shibas change a lot after age two. I understand that they usually get less tolerant, but can you tell me why? also, what other changes take place? Is there any thing i can do to try and lessen the Shiba intolerance of other dogs?
@bmass49, Riku came to me as a retired show shiba shortly after he turned 2, so I cannot confirm the change @shibmamistress commented on first hand. He's now 12 and actually more tolerant of other dogs, but always needs his space.
We know of several people who have either the puppy cam shiba pups or related litters, and they are all very high energy in comparison to our JA, kind of like Huskies, labs and Goldens in a small package. We went to pup socials with our JA when she was 2-months to 5.5 months old. At the pup socials, I didn't see the shiba pups having the space issues Riku always had. In fact, I didn't see any young puppies regardless of breed having the space issue, so my guess is the behavior change is associated with maturity and going through adult hood. Just like people, some enjoy the company of other humans more than others. Some can tolerate being packed like sardines into subway cars in a big city while others need to be in the country and not be able to see their neighbors' house.
It does seem like there are more shibas who prefer to be an only child, or be the alpha in their pack. I've met very few submissive shibas in person.
ps. Riku has always been a snarl/growl/bark warn to keep distance dog, we are lucky he's not the type to actually engage as if he's friendly then nip/bite when he's had too much. Some of our friends' shibas who like to play have lots of "battle wound" from rough play
hmm. well i am doing my best to learn his signals to me of when he needs more space or when he feels uncomfortable, at which point i will literally stand between him and whoever seems to be making him feel this way. And i am still trying to keep socializing him through class at Petsmart and walks through town, but do not want to introduce him to too much at once and make him feel overwhelmed. it sounds like if i do find an Akita pup who seems to be more soft and a breeder who seems to be okay with a shiba in the house that i will need to keep a close eye on the Shiba and his space tolerance. But i will most likely introduce an Akita as a pup if i decide to get one. hopefully that will give the Akita a tolerance for my Shiba or at least help
Socialization is a lifelong effort. There are two forms of aggression that I'm aware of, both results in the dogs not wanting to interact with other dogs and need space.
The typical type is like Riku, a confident, outgoing alpha muffin, who makes it clear to other dogs to keep the distance, but loves people. Respect his wishes and he's fine. The 2nd type is the fear aggression type. They're the ones who would rather hide and stay at home than going out to face the world, regardless of dog or human. These are harder to deal with, especially if you have people coming and going.
The choice to get a 2nd dog is yours. Only you will be able to tell if you can keep up with socializing your shiba while meeting the 2nd dog's socialization needs, especially if it's a pup. The last thing anyone want is for a large breed like an Akita to be poorly socialized or develop fear aggression from being terrorized by a shiba... believe me, we have baby gates up at all times for a good reason
Comments
@myabee09 I would love to be that same way. except thats not good for my puppy becuase we are working on leash training so I pretty much take him out every day for practice/play time on the leash.
@Edgewood I was stopped when walking my shiba pup by a group of five or six kids under the age of 12. All i got was "what is he? hes so cute! he must be a fox! he looks like a fox! " for probably ten minutes while i stood between the group and my pup so he didnt get bombarded. Its definately frustrating!
LOL, everyone thinks i'm walking a fox too.
I think back in the days when it was just Riku, a retired show shiba, I didn't mind answering questions about him b/c he is a pretty good representation of the breed. While the midget long coat JA just looks so different from her kind, and not wild looking like a small fox/coyote, that I have to watch people from rubbing her head.
We need to customize this posters for Nihon Ken!!
http://boogiebt.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/how-not-to-greet-a-dog/
and i second that greeting post @rikumom!
I have a Shiba and Akita and Kai Ken. A lot of people think the Shiba/Akita mix is bad because Shibas are so snarky, and if they get into it with an Akita, they will certainly lose. I think it can work if you're careful, vigilant, and get a soft Akita. Mine works mostly (though we brought the Akita in as a pup) but there are times the Shiba is so in his face and won't back down that we've had to intervene. Luckily, in addition to be soft-tempered, he is soft mouthed, so when he's bit her, he's show extraordinary bite inhibition. (more then most dogs would when she was biting him!) I think it can work, but you do need to have the right dogs, and be cautious.
The Shiba/Kai mix is great--Kai are often great at getting along with other dogs, and they are generally not going to start trouble.
I think a lot depends on your shiba's temperament. Below is a copy of Riku's fur-sibling wanted letter from 2011, though after rejecting one teenage shiba female, we pretty much ruled out any adult dog and decided to get a puppy JA. We're part of the AKIHO club LA Branch, and at least 3 other members have shibas and JAs living together.
When we used to go to puppy socials, the trainers often describe the shibas as snarky [with other dogs], especially compared to the Golden Retrievers and -doodle mixes who never cause trouble. It's all in perspectives.
---
Hi, my name is Riku and I am looking for a submissive fur-sibling to boss around while my parents are at work, and go on brunches/walks/hikes with on the weekends.
Here are my vital stats:
Breed: shiba inu
Age: 10.5
Color: red
Gender: neutered male
Weight: 22.5#, give or take a pound when I'm in/out of coat
User-Friendliness: 100% user-friendly with human kind, needs personal space with canine kind, would like to make friends with feline kind
Conformation: retired show dog
Diet: rotation diet consisting of Orijen kibble & the Honest Kitchen, supplemented with seasonal fruits
Agility Prowess: weak hocks cost me my show career :-(
Athletic Ability: fetch-challenged, more suitable for eating contest
Disposition: calm, I can demonstrate gravitas
Education: mom enrolled me in basic obedience
Energy: low, unless there is food or feline kind around
Herding Instinct: will herd other canines to make sure they don't get into my food
Hunting Instinct: my mom complains that I don't do anything with the resident squirrel population...
Gardening Skills: none
Grooming: I get a professional bath and brush out every 4-6 weeks at the Spa for Pets
Intelligence: can demonstrate basic obedience skills in the presence of treats
Nationality: Japan
Noise-level: heavy breather when excited, otherwise mute
Here are my parents' requirements. Either:
Retired show shiba
Age: under five would be ideal, but more important is to have a calm disposition
Color: B&T preferred but anything other than sesame will do
Gender: not specific, mom & dad will neuter/spay anyways
Weight: under 20# if bitch, HWP if dog
User-Friendliness: dog submissive a must
Energy: low to medium -my parents can't deal an energizer bunny but will happily send my fur sibling to doggie day care twice a week if needed
Hunting Instinct: squirrel hunters a plus
Gardening Skills: diggers need not apply
or
A submissive Japanese Akita puppy bitch in any color but brindle. My parents already named her Sookie
Also, he does not get along with our other Shiba at all. That Shiba bit him when he (the Akita) was a puppy, and he remembers, and he also sees how our female Shiba has a pathological hatred of that dog, so he hates him too. He broke a window trying to get at him. And he's a pretty soft dog, not immediately dog aggressive. So it depends very much on the individual dogs involved, and you have to really be on top of watching them and managing, because it can go bad quickly.
Also if you have a Shiba, you're going to have a hard time finding a breeder who will sell you an Akita, and rescue is pretty much impossible (my local Akita rescue was an exception to that). The vast majority of rescues/breeders I talked to turned me down flat because of the Shiba. There were a few who listened, understood I was experienced with handling difficult dogs and already was living with dogs that have to be permanently separated, and they were willing to talk further. But many just turned me down. While I don't like that, I do understand that with the Shiba/Akita mix, if both turn their natural tendency to reactivity to one another, the Shiba could get very hurt. Some people just don't want to do deal with that, and I also thought that some breeders that turned me down without further conversation might know something I did not--such as the fact that their dogs might tend more to dog aggression than less.
So if you decide to go with an Akita, expect to have a fairly long search. and be really careful--lots of bad breeders out there in the Akita world too, though perhaps not quite as many as the sheer numbers in the Shiba world. And I'm talking about American Akitas here. If you're going for a Japanese Akita, it might be an even longer wait, simply because there are so few breeders.
@shibamistress you mention your Shiba being snarky, is this normal? Mya isn't snarky at all, and it seems like she is in the minority. I researched Shibas before I wound up getting her and she just doesn't fit the mold of what I expected. She puts up with almost anything! Not like either is a bad thing, I'm just curious... Could it have something to do with umbilical training? We did that for about 4 months to builds up her trust with me since I was her third owner by the time she was 2. I just expected more aloofness and attitude from her. She even puts up with my chihuahua's attitude!
you say shibas change a lot after age two. I understand that they usually get less tolerant, but can you tell me why? also, what other changes take place? Is there any thing i can do to try and lessen the Shiba intolerance of other dogs?
Riku came to me as a retired show shiba shortly after he turned 2, so I cannot confirm the change @shibmamistress commented on first hand. He's now 12 and actually more tolerant of other dogs, but always needs his space.
We know of several people who have either the puppy cam shiba pups or related litters, and they are all very high energy in comparison to our JA, kind of like Huskies, labs and Goldens in a small package. We went to pup socials with our JA when she was 2-months to 5.5 months old. At the pup socials, I didn't see the shiba pups having the space issues Riku always had. In fact, I didn't see any young puppies regardless of breed having the space issue, so my guess is the behavior change is associated with maturity and going through adult hood. Just like people, some enjoy the company of other humans more than others. Some can tolerate being packed like sardines into subway cars in a big city while others need to be in the country and not be able to see their neighbors' house.
It does seem like there are more shibas who prefer to be an only child, or be the alpha in their pack. I've met very few submissive shibas in person.
ps. Riku has always been a snarl/growl/bark warn to keep distance dog, we are lucky he's not the type to actually engage as if he's friendly then nip/bite when he's had too much. Some of our friends' shibas who like to play have lots of "battle wound" from rough play
The typical type is like Riku, a confident, outgoing alpha muffin, who makes it clear to other dogs to keep the distance, but loves people. Respect his wishes and he's fine.
The 2nd type is the fear aggression type. They're the ones who would rather hide and stay at home than going out to face the world, regardless of dog or human. These are harder to deal with, especially if you have people coming and going.
The choice to get a 2nd dog is yours. Only you will be able to tell if you can keep up with socializing your shiba while meeting the 2nd dog's socialization needs, especially if it's a pup. The last thing anyone want is for a large breed like an Akita to be poorly socialized or develop fear aggression from being terrorized by a shiba... believe me, we have baby gates up at all times for a good reason