Whoa! Finally getting back to this thread after being busy from work all week.
Interesting perspective among Shikoku and Kai Ken as far as interactions go between them and Shibas. As far as how he plays, he's extremely boisterous and often told he plays too rough. Like @GrayJJ, Sagan is quite social and loves everyone. He wants to be in everyone's face, sniff everything, pee on everything, and generally all up in your business. I would think that he has a hard time of learning when to stop playing. Often times we have to take a time-out at dog parks for a quick breather for 4-5 minutes because he gets worked up. Sagan more or less plays like @Edgewood's Shikoku's in the videos. Tons of butt/body-slamming, nipping the legs, grabbing of the neck or ears, standing up on his hind legs and jumping ontop of them, etc.
I do, however, think it has to do with his age. He's turning 1 next month, so I'm not sure if he'll ever calm down, or stop with the in-your-face, nippy, rough play-style. I doubt it, but again, I've never owned a Shiba past Sagan's age. I am aware that they start becoming dog intolerant after a certain age, but we'll have to see ourselves.
We have looked more into the Kai Ken and they're obviously gorgeous. The fact that they can accommodate themselves to each individual dog is inspiring. You guys have all peaked my interest and I'm so glad to hear of the experiences and whatnot from other owners. There is no rush to anything, but this has definitely changed my mindset of a few things!
You have a Shikoku breeder in BC. Not too far. It's only an hour on clipper and than drive up to her place. Also there's a female Shikoku named Kunoichi in Victoria, BC.
And your Shiba will change. They all do. They become quite a bit calmer after 2. That's also when more dog intolerance starts to creep in if it is going to.
But yes, I'd suggest trying to meet Shikoku and Kai. Maybe plan a visit on year to the pet expo or Nippo classic....I didn't know how much I'd love the Kai Ken til I met them!
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the thing that seems to be with a lot of shikoku is not they that don't play rough...they do! It's that only THEY are allowed to play rough. They're weird in that way, they're pretty rude dogs, but they don't like other rude dogs.
That said, I think it could work...but there's a higher chance with a shikoku to run into more issues then there is with a more dog-social breed, like a kai. ~
There are at least 2 Shikoku owners in the Vancouver (BC) area, @jikjak and @eljefespeaks who may be willing to meet with you. I don't know of any Kai owners in the area.
@jikjak (Terence) is in Richmond BC and can tell you how his Shikoku Ghost and his Shiba get along. His Shiba is older and seems to tolerate Ghost but I haven't seen them together except a year ago....
@Rikka - I'm in North Vancouver and my Kuma (Ghost's brother) is around other dogs lots and has his big black lab girlfriend here in our house too, who he love (and CONSTANTLY pesters, nips, etc etc but she doesn't mind... Kuma also give her lotsa face/ear/mouth licks). He's standard Shikoku - rough, loud, nippy, butt/body slamming, up on hind legs... If yr Shiba is like that anyway now, I don't see much of problem integrating a Shikoku with him, provided Sagan continues to be exposed a lot to other dogs. If you are up my way, we could have Kuma and Sagan meet up.
There is one other Shikoku in West Van, Pele, but I don't think she's very social with other dogs as she was not around other dogs other than their other Shikoku for much of her early life
I also have seen a JA paired up with Shibas and they've gotten along well (at least this particular pair did). So I think your options are pretty open and it's really going to be down to the individual dogs really. Especially if you'd say Sagan does well with other dogs already. Some Shiba just don't at all, but the ones that do generally are pretty flexible with who they get paired up with.
@Eljefespeaks - Awesome! My partner and I are actually in Vancouver a few times a year, especially since it's only a 2 hour drive from us, but we've never brought Sagan along. Maybe we can make a weekend out of it, and see how they interact with each other? He sounds like he's the same as Kuma, but I think that may also have to do with his age. He's turning 1 next month.
Having seen my Kai around looooots of different dogs with all kinds of temperaments and play styles, and having met other Kais, Shikokus and Shibas, I would think the Shiba+Kai would be a better option.
Kais i've noticed (and have read) dont really have that aggressive tendency that many Nihon Ken do, i also think in general they are a little more patient and less "in your face" (although i kinda like that about Shikoku LOL)
This weekend when Kona was in a pen with 4 other Shikoku that were bothering her and being a little much, instead of fighting back she would do her own thing and lay down (if they were persistent about it she would just bear her teeth, but nothing more)
Of course like many said there are definitely exceptions to these generalizations, but remember too all those generalizations come from somewhere haha
The feedback is helpful for me, too! I have a trip planned to visit Akashima Kennel, So I can truly take in the Shikoku, observe and go from there. I'm excited just to be able to meet the breed.
This weekend I dog-sat one of Grayson's shiba friends, a 4 yr old shy female. They often play together at the dog park, but it was the first time we spent all day together. As expected, Grayson was the one pestering her and mouthing her ears/face all day, would not give up! I tried to catch a video of their typical play, will figure out how to upload it this week.
@mdokic that is one thing I do like about the Shikoku. @Rikka I will be getting a Shikoku pup from Katja in the next month or so if you are ever in Portland and I currently have a Shiba that's about 9 months.
Play video as promised, let's see if this works! Grayson is the darker/thinner Shiba in the clip. I did find that if they figured out I was filming, they'd stop playing lol so this was the best video I could record:
@MikoChan - ARGH. I'm actually going to Portland this weekend. I'd love to see your Shikoku pup in the future though, if I'm ever back down there again! Let me know how your Shiba and Shikoku get along together.
What, a Shikoku in Portland? I'm gonna have to drive up there to see this. That is totally worth 4 hours of driving. There's a lotta good hiking in the area too. Hmm, now I need to plan a trip up there...
@MikoChan Oooh! Once you get your Shikoku I want to meet him. Maybe I can bring Meitou (my Hokkaido pup).
@Rikka I know a Hokkaido isn't on your list, but if you want to meet Meitou while you're down here, let me know. I'm actually just over the river from Portland on the Washington side, but if things work out I'm open to trying to work something out depending on what day you're down this way on the weekend.
@Losech Yeah, there's some great hiking around here. I love the hikes in the Gorge. (random link for funzies: http://www.gorgefriends.org/ )
Comments
Interesting perspective among Shikoku and Kai Ken as far as interactions go between them and Shibas. As far as how he plays, he's extremely boisterous and often told he plays too rough. Like @GrayJJ, Sagan is quite social and loves everyone. He wants to be in everyone's face, sniff everything, pee on everything, and generally all up in your business. I would think that he has a hard time of learning when to stop playing. Often times we have to take a time-out at dog parks for a quick breather for 4-5 minutes because he gets worked up. Sagan more or less plays like @Edgewood's Shikoku's in the videos. Tons of butt/body-slamming, nipping the legs, grabbing of the neck or ears, standing up on his hind legs and jumping ontop of them, etc.
I do, however, think it has to do with his age. He's turning 1 next month, so I'm not sure if he'll ever calm down, or stop with the in-your-face, nippy, rough play-style. I doubt it, but again, I've never owned a Shiba past Sagan's age. I am aware that they start becoming dog intolerant after a certain age, but we'll have to see ourselves.
We have looked more into the Kai Ken and they're obviously gorgeous. The fact that they can accommodate themselves to each individual dog is inspiring. You guys have all peaked my interest and I'm so glad to hear of the experiences and whatnot from other owners.
https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=202670297651859692995.0004cb127ac421241e6a8&msa=0
But yes, I'd suggest trying to meet Shikoku and Kai. Maybe plan a visit on year to the pet expo or Nippo classic....I didn't know how much I'd love the Kai Ken til I met them!
That said, I think it could work...but there's a higher chance with a shikoku to run into more issues then there is with a more dog-social breed, like a kai. ~
@Rikka - I'm in North Vancouver and my Kuma (Ghost's brother) is around other dogs lots and has his big black lab girlfriend here in our house too, who he love (and CONSTANTLY pesters, nips, etc etc but she doesn't mind... Kuma also give her lotsa face/ear/mouth licks). He's standard Shikoku - rough, loud, nippy, butt/body slamming, up on hind legs... If yr Shiba is like that anyway now, I don't see much of problem integrating a Shikoku with him, provided Sagan continues to be exposed a lot to other dogs. If you are up my way, we could have Kuma and Sagan meet up.
There is one other Shikoku in West Van, Pele, but I don't think she's very social with other dogs as she was not around other dogs other than their other Shikoku for much of her early life
@cezieg - Indeed!
Kais i've noticed (and have read) dont really have that aggressive tendency that many Nihon Ken do, i also think in general they are a little more patient and less "in your face" (although i kinda like that about Shikoku LOL)
This weekend when Kona was in a pen with 4 other Shikoku that were bothering her and being a little much, instead of fighting back she would do her own thing and lay down (if they were persistent about it she would just bear her teeth, but nothing more)
Of course like many said there are definitely exceptions to these generalizations, but remember too all those generalizations come from somewhere haha
Hope this helps a little too
This weekend I dog-sat one of Grayson's shiba friends, a 4 yr old shy female. They often play together at the dog park, but it was the first time we spent all day together. As expected, Grayson was the one pestering her and mouthing her ears/face all day, would not give up! I tried to catch a video of their typical play, will figure out how to upload it this week.
*Revised - seems my link wasn't working!
@Rikka I know a Hokkaido isn't on your list, but if you want to meet Meitou while you're down here, let me know. I'm actually just over the river from Portland on the Washington side, but if things work out I'm open to trying to work something out depending on what day you're down this way on the weekend.
@Losech Yeah, there's some great hiking around here. I love the hikes in the Gorge. (random link for funzies: http://www.gorgefriends.org/ )
Looks like there are a lot of forum people in that corner of the world, really.