Information From Owners
I have been on this forum for the past week, everyone has been so great and so welcoming! I have been doing some research on my own and of course reading various posts. I of course have read Brad's experience with this JA's. However I was wondernig if anyone else who is a current or past owner of a JA could give me their experiences. I know there are similar threads/posts to an extent but to be clear I am NOT looking for a guard dog. I am looking for a companion, a member of our family. However, there will be times where my wife is out walking our dog and I want to know, whether it be a male or female JA, if a JA will protect her if anything ever got out of hand (which I hope never happens). What I mean is are 9 times out of 10 is a JA just going to run away, or bark for a minute and then get scared or if they believe their owner is really in a bad situation are they going to protect him/her. If anyone of you could give you your real experiences, actual owner experiences, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, Jon
Comments
I'm lucky neither of my dogs have not been put in that situation though I do worry about it when I walk by a certain section of our neighborhood where there is an aggressive GSD, the owner lost control of the leash and it bit an elderly gentleman's hand last year. If you've been around dogs you know how fast they can move, or how they can refuse to budge. My JA is still a puppy and she freezes in unfamiliar circumstance. I guess if anything bad happens, my instinct is to protect my dogs vs. counting on them to protect me. If it was just my shiba I'd scoop him up. But if it's both my shiba and JA, my only plan for escape is to scatter kibble and take off, or yell/scream for help.
I guess I'm also assuming the bad situation is w/ another dog encounter. Perhaps your concern has to do w/ human attack?
ps. I live in a suburb of the California, our neighborhood gets little foot traffic other than kids walking to and from the high/middle school. Part of the reason we got our JA is deterrent from bad guys. Even though she's been seeing our landscape maintenance crew every Wednesday since she's 2 months old, she still barks her head off when they enter her backyard. So you might not be looking for a guard dog but it's likely a JA will exhibit excellent guard dog instincts. Protection dog, not so sure.
No guard dog.
No protection dog.
Well, my JA is 10-month-old. She locks up when she sees something out of the ordinary or unfamiliar dogs. There's an older gentleman who jogs around the neighborhood in a funny gait. She locks up and stares until he passes. I think we've succeed in training her to take in her world calmly vs. reacting in fear/fear aggression.
Periodically we'll pass by some sketchy characters when out and about. In those cases, I cross the street to avoid them or turn around in another direction. I don't wait for them to corner me or for my dogs to behave as a deterrent. If you have a typical AA (90#+ animal), the size alone is a deterrent. JAs don't look very intimidating, they look like giant shibas.
IMHO, It's simply not polite dog behavior in our society for a dog to be barking/growling/lunging at strangers. I wouldn't mind training my JA to bark/growl on command if I need that for a deterrent (It's actually kind of cute when you can train a dog to "talk"), but I wouldn't want my dog to do that whenever a stranger approached. It's not deterrent, it's a sign of a poorly socialized or trained dog. That kind of behavior will probably earn her the reputation of an aggressive dog, and animal control will probably come out for the safety of others, especially children who are on route to school or seniors out on a stroll.
Finally, my 22# shiba used to bark/growl/lunge at dogs when we go on walks. It was fear reaction, he never bit anyone, just puts up a snarly show. He's older and calmer now, plus has the 43# JA to watch his back. I cannot tell you what a difference it is to have a well socialized dog compared to a poorly socialized one. I also would not want to control a 70# JA male that is barking/growling/lunging. I'll probably get hurt trying to hold onto the leash!
http://www.sfdogmauling.com/
Socialize your dog and invest in a patrol harness vest to deter the bad guys with warnings. This is especially true if you have children in your neighborhood.
http://www.activedogs.com/page.php?id=108
@oddball, well spoken
If you want a dog to do more than look intimidating and be suspicious, seek professional training. Its just silly to expect a dog to instinctively do something without ever being taught what you want it to do! We don't expect them to know to sit, walk on a leash, or poop outdoors from the moment they're born, so why should protection -- which is a significantly more complicated and discerning behavior -- be any different? Dogs need to learn what "up to no good" and "danger" signs are, since human body language is not the same as canine, they don't understand spoken threats, and they don't know that a gun is the most dangerous thing they'll ever face.
@rikumom I think a well socialized and correctly trained Japanese Akita would be a fine choice for a protection dog over, say, a Golden Retriever. I think this is true of most hunting spitz breeds, but particularly the more primitive ones. Their nature is much more suited for it vs gun dogs and retrievers. Although I do call my boy mellow, I would generally add other descriptors as stoic or bold, rather than laid back or tranquil. They should be calm and stable, but that doesn't mean weak-willed, subdued, or placating. I disagree that they're not intimidating when they choose to be, even the red ones; you just happened to get the cutest ball of fluff ever.
My AA now tends to have decent judgement though. He watches and evaluates what he thinks might be a threat. Usually, though, this isn't really him evaluating in the way humans would--he thinks the USP guy is ALWAYS a threat, for example, because he comes to our property and gets way too close to the gate.
I find my AA a very good deterrent. No one wants to come in the yard with him (and they shouldn't) and if I was walking with him, I'd feel pretty safe.
I got into an argument with a not so friendly neighbour about my dog Tenshi (male, a few years old at the time) and a couple of minutes later when the neighbour came too close Tenshi lunged at him (he did not reach him, but my neighbour decided it would do good to keep a decent distance and leave us alone.
Sometimes while walking on the street a certain person catches my Akita's eye and he tries to stare him down. It is usually nothing, but i have to pull him away and distract him so that we can go on with our walk.
I don't think Akitas make good guard dogs for property, i don't think they would really try to get a burglar for instance but I think they would protect the owner if needed.
Honestly, anyone with a peanut of a brain would back off when an Akita showed signs that he is willing to attack, If you think your family will be attacked by smb who doesn't back down at the first sign that he is going to be bitten by a dog then maybe you might need extra protection. :-)
You are absolutely correct professional training is the key. We're looking forward to start a nose work, not schutzhund for now :-) I remember this thread when I was researching training classes before the fluff ball came home, the video was very inspiring.
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/6733/aa-demonstrating-defense-training/p1
I don't know about JAs, but I think AAs can make decent watch dogs for property, actually. Not a true working guard dog (ie. PPD) unless they are trained, but AAs are good at patrolling, alarm barking, and they don't back down when they see strangers. I'm pretty certain my AA would engage a burgler (or someone trying to hurt one of us).
He's almost engaged some nonburglars (but people who came into the property when they should not have.) He would have gone for them if my husband hadn't been there to restrain him. And yes, the sight of a lunging, pissed off 110 pound Akita SHOULD be scary.
(and I sent you a message, asgardfox, answering your questions).
Are you saying a JA owner should not be inspired by AA's or professional training? :-(
I think probably any dog can learn most dog sports. I tend to think AAs are more temperamentally suited for this kind of work (though certainly not the best breed for it), but I could be wrong about that.
But as a digression, I also think it's probably useful to find a sport a dog likes rather than trying to fit a dog into what we want to do. I've seen a fair amount of "my dog must do x" in canine sports, when the dog isn't really into it. That's not a breed specific comment, either.
Controlling a dog is not about size but confidence and bond with your animal. Understandably I think that people train more with large dogs to be able to control them and have the confidence to do so.
If a stranger came up to Koda, Mika, and I and started just talking they would bark if they felt in danger or uncomfortable. They are Kai's btw but with similar temperments as the JA description above. They would not protect me. They would protect themselves though from a stranger.
If I'm out with my neighbor's Malinois who just really love me they are constantly on guard almost anxiety ridden in trying to check everything and everywhere for danger. If someone came up to me they would lunge to attack. If they are at my home they guard anyone from coming near it and won't relax because they are always on. That is a guard dog. An NK just isn't that type of breed.
I've never been in a position where I was fearful while walking her. She's not a very big JA, she's probably just over 40lbs and right at or barely over 22in at the shoulder, so I'm not sure if she'd have a good physical intimidation factor in a bad situation (though when her fur stands up it makes her look twice as large xD). She has the voice of a dog who could be well over 100lbs though - very low, very loud. I've never heard her bark at another dog or any animal (even the most taunting of squirrel, lol), but when certain people set her off she sounds like a hell hound xD.
The only decent example I have of what she would do:
I have an extremely tall friend who is very intimidating to her. Nicest guy ever, but has way too much energy (and bad dog etiquite) for his size and this scares both of my dogs. When he comes over, Sakura will howl at him while keeping a distance. If he approaches at all, she will retreat to a comfortable distance and howl at him again. He's tried to chase both of my dogs before and this is why they will probably never like him -_-; especially because he always approaches them with waaay too much energy. But when we are out on a walk together with her she is perfectly fine trotting along. And we can all sit in peace on a restaurant patio though she will shift if he tries to pet her, but will still tolerate him. She makes an AMAZING companion dog, very loving girl
Each dog is different. There's a JA (or possible tweenie though I'm almost certain is a JA) that comes into the clinic who is extremely aggressive with any kind of handling and absolutely must be muzzled every time. Bad, ignorant owners. The dog is from Mexico, and I was told that they actually breed for aggression/guarding down there.. don't know how true that is, however. His name is Hashiko, and HE would probably protect your wife if things got out of hand.
He is super friendly and loves going up to people for kisses and petting. However if you are sketchy looking or acting suspicious Saigo will stand still and start making a gruffing noise at the person and refuse to walk away. Once it was a guy smoking dope and the other person was a sketchy acting middle eastern dude.
They are not the ferocious dog as people might imagine. She is getting really old (13years old) and she gets cranky very easily and won't put up with things anymore such as my new puppy nipping her tail or neck. She'll snap at him but never bit him. Oh yeah, she also growls with dogs larger than her. It's rare to see a bigger dog than her but I try to avoid it at all costs.
She is so sweet with cats and puppies. Ninja was 7 years old when she saw her first kittens that we found. She kept licking them and watched them carefully making sure to notify us if they cried.
As stated earlier in the thread, if someone unfamiliar walks towards us, she will stand in the middle and stand her ground. Most people try to avoid us because Ninja is so big. She will bark if someone rings the doorbell or walks through the front door. She knows that people walking through the garage door is safe. She is also good off-leash.
Also, I'm finding (and reading) that you won't know fully your dog's "protection" personality until they are fully mature. Mine is 14 months and still developing that. They have to kind of figure out "life" I guess.
My AA is not super affectionate...I mean he is, but he's not a cuddler...he wants to greet you and get a hug and then go do his own thing. He does not like my kids hugging his neck or hanging all over him, although he will tolerate it for a short time. However I am noticing more and more that he likes to keep an eye out for us and be with us. He may not like us in his face, but he wants to know where we are, and he wants to be where he has access to us. The other day I tied him to a tree so he could be with us while we played frisbee...but since he did not have access to us, he got very upset. On the other hand, we brought him with us to a fireworks display the other night and since he was able to be RIGHT with us, he was happier (although he did not like the young kids running around the area and screaming, that made him very uncomfortable as he does not like that kind of unpredictability.) So basically, I get the sense that he always has some sort of "watch" going for us, even if he may not seem like it. If myself and one of my younger sons is at home alone at night while my husband takes my other boys out for something, he gets especially jumpy and barks more easily than he would if everyone was home.
He barks out the window at people...but if we are outside, he does not bark at people and is anxious to meet/greet new people (usually).
A few protective things we've noticed about him....at the dog park, if my youngest son (5) is there with my husband, and a dog approaches my son....Kota will get between my son and the other dog. He will not growl, he will not bark, or even really posture. It is a very casual action but lets the other dog know the situation, I guess. I was also told that when we had a sitter the other day, and the sitter was picking up my 5 year old to play with him and tickle, that Kota was right there watching carefully, and even gave a very small little "woof" of caution to the sitter. That was all, and no aggression...but it showed he was concerned. As a matter of fact, my husband was playing roughly with the 5 year old the other day, and Kota jumped on my husband and mouthed his hand...not a bite, but he seemed like he was trying to distract him from playing so roughly with our son. Anyway out of our four kids, Kota is especially watchful of the youngest.
Anyway I know this is wordy but I think my idea of an akita is that you probably won't really know how protective your dog is unless you need it....heaven forbid. Especially as the dog grows and gets more "life experience"....he is going to learn to chill out about everything that is normal, so in a well socialized dog, you won't really "see" the guarding instinct. The Akita, I think, sort of watches things and keeps track of everybody without really acting like he's doing it. Kota will casually move from room to room at times, acting like he isn't paying any attention to anybody...but often I'll find he ends up in a central location to where everyone in the family is currently at. (Except at night, he remains downstairs where it's cooler, and also it's where the main door is, etc.)
And Kota, even though he is smaller for an AA, has a bark that is going to scare anyone off. He wouldn't harm anyone, but just the bark at the mailman would keep that mailman FAR away. And we have a FedEx driver that refuses to set foot on our porch, even though we have insisted that Kota would never hurt him. So just having a large dog like that is some protection as it is.
Anyway this was long, sorry! But I just think that in general, a good akita is a very passive watch/guard dog. Meaning, they don't freak out about every little thing (especially as they mature, I think....when younger, they are still trying to figure stuff out) and if well socialized, they may behave very nicely with strangers and other people....but I'm pretty sure they have the ability to do what they need to do with a "bad guy". But hopefully nobody on this forum will ever have to find that out for sure.
If a Japanese Akita ever should be considered as an excellent guard or watchdog, why the Japanese did not use the breed as a policedog or in the military? Other breeds are far more suitable for that task, like GSD or Rottweiler or Malinois. Because a dog barks if he or she notices something strange, does not mean it is a guard or watch dog. There are other breeds more capable of being that. Was there ever an Akita Schutzhund?