Aggression

Anyone have any suggestions on how to deal with aggression and/or hunting instincts? I know there's a line between the two, but sometimes I can't tell if Kimi's trying to hunt kids (because they are running) or what. (No, she doesn't get off leash because she can't be trusted.)

And she doesn't play nicely with other dogs, especially when she's near me. She sometimes gets hyper and always turns into Cujo.

I've been working on the hyper part... getting her to sit. That has helped a little bit, but not enough.

Someone has mentioned a metal muzzle. I guess having her look like hannibal lector while she plays won't be that bad if she learns to tolerate and behave with other dogs.

Comments

  • edited November -1
    You should try to re-direct her when she acts out. Positive reinforcement has worked wonders with Ninja. Also, my behaviorist recommended "water bombs" to throw near the dog to get their attention when they are acting in a way that you don't approve of. Basically you can get water balloons and fill them with water and then throw them near her when she's showing unwanted behavior. Usually you have a specific word or noise that gets her attention and then throw the water bomb right after. When she looks at you, give her praise immediately and move on. This has worked wonders with Ninja, some people might see it as a little much, but if you have a dog who you cannot trust in certain situations, you need to take responsibility and have control. It's better to be safe and have people look at your weird rather than taking the risk of your dog potentially hurting someone or another animal. Once we throw the water bomb, Ninja looks at us immediately and we praise him. Our key word is a "bah" noise. After the water bomb, if he acts out and we say "bah" he is pretty attentive to us from there on out. Now when we go out, we just take 1 water bomb with us, because that usually does the trick, most of the time we don't even have to use it.
  • edited November -1
    We have this issue with Ahi and kids. She really loves kids, and if they run she gives chase. I have gotten into arguments with people at dogs parks because their kid was running around the park and Ahi was chasing the kid and jumping on it... we obviously try to avoid that, but its a hard one to stop.

    If its at a dog park either we leave or the kid leaves. If we are in public, she is always on lead so we can controller her.

    If Ahi catches the running kid, with the exception of jumping on them, she is very gentle. Is Kimi gentle or does she bite the kids?

    ----

    As for the dog aggression thing, you got Kimi when she was older right [like older than 6 months]? this is probably a socialization issue, she may have missed some socialization needs in the key socialization time [up to 6 months].

    Romi has given you great advice, all I can add is that we saw some pretty good improvements when we took Ahi/Maui/Kaia to a "problem solving class". Ahi and Maui needed it most - Kaia we just wanted her to have the extra socialization. Ahi needed it for excitement and Maui for out right dog aggression [dog restiveness].

    The class was simple really, they took a few dogs that had similar behavioral issue, most of which was dog or people aggression, and we had our dogs do agility work while in the presence of the other dogs. It forced the dogs to "work" while under the stress of being around these other "negative energy" dogs. Over time and lots of repetition you could really start to see a change in Maui and Ahi - they started focusing on their "work" and not the other dogs. I think it really helped Maui and Ahi.

    Maybe look into a similar class for Kimi?

    ----
  • edited November -1
    Romi's advice is very similar to the advice of our behaviorist for Kitsune's fear/anxiety - we are always working on redirecting the unwanted action the moment we catch it starting. I think that method can be applied to just about every unwanted action that a dog exhibits - grab her attention than redirect to a positive.

    and lots of exercise. a tired dog is a really good dog. Those classes that Brad mentioned above sound wonderful! I might look into that for Hachi...
  • edited November -1
    Sorry for the short explanation/question earlier. I was in a rush, but wanted to get it out there...

    Thanks! I'll have to try the water bombs since she's not getting it when I am trying to get her attention (to redirect her). Sometimes she's too fixated, even when I try to do a body block (if the other dog/person is at a distance) or to walk the other way or engage her in a game. She's smart. When I do a body block, if she's really fixated, she'll move over to where she can see whatever she's interested in. If I walk the opposite way, she'll try to plant her butt and not care if the leash is choking her before I drag her off. Apparently I become the "invisible owner."

    Kimi can be vamperella even when she is tired. She gets plenty of exercise--daily, but I'm guessing that I probably need to add "problem solving class". I'll have to ask around to see if they offer it in my area. I hadn't heard of it. It sounds really good.

    I would say that Kimi's timid around kids and tolerates them--like she is with adults--when they are quiet, still, and not looking at her. But if the kids are screaming and running near where we are walking, she thinks that's strange, starts barking, jumping and biting the leash. If they are running not too close (like if they seem to be her size), she has gone into prey mode before. I do scold her and try to redirect her. She doesn't normally come into contact with kids. And when she does, the kids sit, talk in a calm voice, don't look at her, and give her treats. She comes to the kid; not the other way around. I don't let kids (and people not in her circle) approach her ever. She has the option to approach them under certain conditions. And when she does, I praise her for that.

    ...It's been several months since I've taken her to a dog park. Just because it's really far from my house and there's several parks and natural areas closer. So she hasn't been off leash in a long time. Mostly because she can't be trusted to behave and come back. She used to not be that aggressive, and was just fearful. I've kept up the socialization, minus the last few weeks. She has definitely not been aggressive during the numerous doggie classes (about 1/2 year) we've taken. It's when we're at my parents or at the (non-doggie) park or just walking through the neighborhood. So I'm not sure what the trigger was/is. There's plenty of dogs in my neighborhood, and her experiences had been positive. Now she's making others' negative, and I've stopped letting her greet other dogs. Now she can't even get near. 12 feet is about it. It's a shame.

    Yesterday, we were leaving my friend's house and there was a stray lab that came up. My friend was trying to grab that dog. I was giving Kimi commands and trying to lead her away, and she was ignoring me. Initial round of sniffage was good. Kimi got praise. The second round was like Dr. Jekyl came out. Let's just say I was not happy and she knew it. When she calmed down, I didn't praise her.

    Like Romi said, I need to take more responsibility of her. I'm trying my best. I'll look to see if something similar to that class is offered. I'll be sure to invest in water balloons. Thank goodness summer is coming. ;) Maybe several special trips to the doggie park with the face mask on will cure her aggression by getting her frustrated enough to quit--at least, that's what the trainer recommended. Not sure if other owners will like that. (Park is always busy, and no one likes a dog in a scarey muzzle.) Thanks again. If anyone thinks of anything else, please let me know.
  • edited November -1
    "if Kimi's trying to hunt kids or what." LOOOOOL xD
  • edited November -1
    Kimi's reaction to running and screaming children is probably more a response to try to correct their behavior, rather than hunt the kids. Sounds like Kimi's is trying to take on a leadership role.
  • edited November -1
    Barbara is on to something - maybe she is trying to take the leadership role, albeit away from you, and perhaps that even causes her to become as reactive with dogs as well? Perhaps she perceives them just as rude as the kids?
    I'm just totally guessing here...

    This was a really good article the shiba rescue shared with me when we were trouble shooting with a foster:
    http://www.flyingdogpress.com/sayhi.html
  • edited November -1
    I never thought about it like that--that she is trying to correct their behavior.
  • edited November -1
    This sort of reminds me of Loki (my chow/shepherd that passed away on March). Whenever any of the other animals started getting too rowdy indoors, he'd bark at them to make them stop. Outside was usually fine, but indoors it was as if he was yelling, "Hey, you crazy youngin's, knock it off!" He was definitely the leader of the pack as well, so it may be that Kimi is trying to stop the ruckus. I don't know, though. I've never really had this problem with my dogs, so it's hard to say. My dogs like to run up to kids, but then they just lick them and wag their tails, so it's mostly just excited to see them.

    Anyway, if you do decide to get a muzzle, I recently bought a Jafco muzzle for Rakka and I really like it. I wanted to get a clear one, but ended up getting a white one because I couldn't find a store that sold the clear ones, was in stock, and would ship to Canada. Anyway, I think the clear ones offer a less offensive appearance, allow the dogs to communicate with their mouths and posture and don't glare in the dog's eyes or overheat like I imagine the white or black ones would. They're designed so the dog can run, bark, pant, and drink water as well. http://www.petexpertise.com/item--JAFCO-Dog-Muzzles--jafco_muzzle.html
  • edited November -1
    Well, we went out to the doggie park this past weekend. It was more positive than I thought it would be. :)

    Both days, we went early in the morning. First day, no one else was there, so Kimi got to run around and sniff where the wild rabbits were. She loved that. Second day, as we were thinking about leaving, some people came with their dogs (4). She did okay (no nipping) with the three her size or bigger. She tried to bully a cocker spaniel by showing her teeth and the beginning of nipping behavior (it was slightly smaller than her), and I redirected her before she actually could. She took off bossing the other dogs around. *sigh* We stayed until she got tired.

    Baby steps right?

    Not sure why she chose to pick on the cocker spaniel, other than it's size, since it was displaying the same playfulness as the other dogs.

    On a different topic, I decided to break down and order a muzzle for when we visit family and friends and ?... The muzzle that I went with is similar to what's on the following site: http://www.fordogtrainers.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2139
    The dog trainer and shop owner where I ordered it from both highly recommended it because of its durability and satisfied clients and customers. Hope that it will come in soon. (I was sold on the durability part.)
  • edited June 2008
    Baby steps are the path to her total rehabilitation!! Good for you!
    Interesting that she chose the cocker spaniel - while I always try to understand why they are doing it - maybe there are just reasons beyond reason? He must have done something initially in the introduction that didn't sit right with her..

    Per your other comment about Ryu's harness, and how Kimi hated being in one or on lead, I'd be interested to hear about how Kimi takes to the muzzle.. good luck! :)
  • edited November -1
    That doesn't sound bad at all! Showing teeth is a normal way for dogs to communicate and it does not indicate aggression or intention to bite all the time (it does sometimes). It sounds like Kimi was just unhappy with the cocker's play style and was letting it know. I think you handled it correctly by redirected (as opposed to correcting). :-)

    I hope she continues to do well!
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