Brad I haven't read all of the comments on here, but here is my two cents.
I would never leave a dog out all night, I would have to figure out some other type of solution. Maybe Kona would like to share a kennel at night with one of the other dogs? Maybe his collar would keep him quiet. Kona is big and strong, but how much damage could a PACK of Coyote do before you or the other dogs could make it outside? Why risk it.
How do you not have a shotgun yet? I know you don't like guns, but if Coyotes have literally tried to jump at/through your windows then you need to have something to protect, you, Jen and the dogs. I'm sure if you ran outside and put a shot in the air, it might make them stay away a little longer than just turning on the light. I don't think you would ever need to fire directly at a living animal. If you are going to live in the places that you enjoy living, a bit of protection seems necessary.
Edit - I know a dog in your bedroom is not ideal, but I am glad last night went well.
Brandon - I actually visited a gun shop here in town last weekend. I'll be ordering my shotgun in the next few weeks. The collar doesn't work for whining.
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Well, some news, and this may be totally not related or could be related 100%. Seems a little coencidental for it not to be related, but I am still skeptical that it is.
Kona attacked Fuji today. Fuji and Kona have NEVER had an issue, they got along fine - actually they got along great, until today.
You see, this is what I fear most about allowing one of our dogs to sleep with us. Our dogs sleep together in tight corders(sp?) as a pack. I have found that this is one of the most important aspects to keeping a happy pack, allowing the dogs to be totally calm and submissive around each other - sleeping as a pack, imo, is one of the best forms of bonding. Often times new pups we introduce do ok at first, then by the next night they are the best of buds and part of the pack and I believe this is because they spent a night next to each other sleeping as a pack.
Jen and I are the pack leaders, we can sleep where we want to, but the dogs sleep downstairs on the ground - because that is the way we want it - as the pack leaders. And as subordinate pack members the MUST listen to the pack leaders.
We allow Kona [who is full of testosterone, self-importance, and confidence] spend one night elevated above the rest of the pack and now he is falsely pushing his new "position" in the pack.
Like I said, it may not be related but Kona has never shown ANY aggression to ANY of his pack mates until today - the day after he was allowed to sleep with the pack leaders.
No more sleeping in our room for Kona [or any other dog].
PS: Neither was hurt and they seem fine now, Jen was with them and stopped it before it got to bad. Kona was in it for kill tho... over nothing, no toy, food, etc.
Fuji is super confident, she will run the pack [below Jen and I], I am sure of it. That is probably why. She is also the youngest and Kona is not good at giving correction. If I had to guess [I was not there, Jen was], Kona corrected Fuji for some reason, Fuji stood up for herself then Kona got all reactive and freaked out. Kona is VERY reactive.
The blanket thing would work except that we have mistakenly put soft things [like jackets, dogs beds, etc] on Kona's crate, then go to bed nothing about it... we wake up to that object being torn to shreds.
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I think the solution is going to be ignoring it... I think that's the only course of action - its gonna suck ass. I may video the process... just for fun. lol.
So I figured I should give you guys an update on this....
Last night went horrible, we left Kona in his crate and went to bed at 11pm. The Coyotes stopped by for their nightly visit/harassment at about 12 and woke up the "hell beast" [aka Kona]. Kona cried from 12 to 2:45am then got quiet... we smelled the delicious aroma of fresh dog poo, went down stairs to see what the deal was. He had sprayed crap all over the wall, Loa [in a crate next to him], the floor and himself. We cleaned up the mess then went back to bed at about 4am. He slept till 5:45am, then started crying again. He cried till 7:30am. At that point Jen and I got up because we couldn't take it anymore. It was a restful night. \
See, this is the issue... He cries when he needs to go out, and he cries when he just wants out... so he cries wolf... and we can't tell when its real or fake. If we get up and let him out each time then he gets his way and we are not ignoring him. If we don't and he craps himself then we are bad parents.
He drives us crazy with this - this is the only thing he does wrong, he is good otherwise, but this is just soooooooooooo bad.
Poor Kona, poor you & jen, poor floor, poor wall, & of course, poor, poor innocent by-stander Loa! [ that must not have been a nice thing to wake up to in the middle of the night...a face full of shit ]
Ahh. I have no ideas for you Brad, except maybe get rid of all the coyotes in the area & create an invention to mask the scent of the females in heat. ~
Hmm...thats kind of interesting. Im not really sure what to say on the whole thing about Kona attacking Fuji - that is pretty random and super surprising since I don't remember 1 time when you had an issue with Kona and the other dogs. He's the best with other dogs.
You guys have a pretty set schedule on how you feed and take out your pups right? Im wondering why he had to poop at 3am. I think it might have been out of anxiety, not because he really needed to go. Ninja has pooped from fear/anxiety 2 times. Its really strange, the first time was at the vet and the second time is when my brother brought like 15 people over. He had just pooped like an hour before and then he went into his pen and pooped again.
I think you just need to ignore the behavior. You have a schedule, he needs to follow it. He has been with your pack long enough and knows you are the pack leaders. You should not have to wake up to take him out, he has to wait for you to wake up to be let out. Maybe he is in that stage where he is challenging you? I think it's best if you just keep doing things as normal, but ignore and correct behavior that is not wanted. I'm sure he'll grow out of it soon!
Instead of trying to deter the dogs, Have you tried using a coyote deterrent?
I've seen wold deterrents based on sound used to keep away wolves by ranchers around yellowstone national park. It is a compromise between the ranchers and environmentalists.
I looked up a product used to deter coyotes it supposedly does not affect dogs, it uses instinctual sounds of a cougar to deter the coyotes, it says it has a 1 year money back guarantee, I don't know what your budget is like though, It looks like it runs somewhere around $130.00 to $160.00 some dollars.
It would be a nonviolent method to deter the coyotes without harming them and maybe calm Kona down if they are not provoking him, and even if he still wants to be out maybe this product would keep the coyotes away.
Coyotes are crazy, I don't think many dogs could really take a coyote without serious damage, and if he is outside they probably would not be stopped by a fence as they are excellent climbers.
Personally I would try something like this before resorting to using the gun, even if your shooting in the air, the bullets are coming down somewhere, but if the coyotes are jumping in your windows that is dangerous, however the land you own is shared with the animals who have always lived there, try to find a happy balance for both you and the coyotes.
I like your idea about the LGD as well but would still be slightly worried about them depending on the number of coyotes.
Brad, I know I am no where near as knowledgable about your pups as you, or anyone else here for that matter... But I do have a suggestion.
We had a problem with Bella wanting to stay outside at night last summer. We live in the city, and do not have a physical fence, so there is no way that would ever happen. While, at this point, she was sleeping in our bedroom (on her own bed, of course) we ended up having to crate her because she would pace all night long. Even in the crate, she would get up at 2 or 3 in the morning and bark and whine. When we ignored her, she had an accident in her crate. That was the first time she had EVER had an accident.
After that, if she woke us up in the middle of the night, either me or my husband (we took turns) would get up, put her on a short leash, and take her out. We have her 5 minutes to do her business if she needed, and if not, we would take her back in and put her back in the crate. It only took 3 nights of this for her to realize we were not going to let her stay out all night, or even go out for a midnight romp, and she was back sleeping in her nice comfy bed. That may be a sugguestion for Kona, take him out on a short leash and then bring him in.
I am not sure if it will work, but maybe worth a try if you are worried about not being able to tell the difference between him crying because he needs to go out or crying because he WANTS to go out.
Romi - I think Kona got into something in the wood pile I had delivered over the weekend. He probably eat something he shouldn't have [like a stink bug]. That is why he got sick.
Andrew - I have spoke some of the ranchers about deterrent systems that use sound to keep the Coyote away, they said they didn't work for them. That is why I have not explored them. I didn't know about Wolf urine tho - I may try that! Thanx!!!!
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Last night went better, Kona slept till 6:05am... so we finally got some sleep. Jen got us some earplugs too - they helped. So I got to sleep till 7:45! )
Oh wow, its amazing how the mind limits the problem. Here we are coming up with all sorts of complicated suggestions when in fact all it may take is a leash you already own.
This is a good example of collaborative thinking and the power of the Internet.
The Internet is setup in a way that, if you have an issue, you put it out on the web and present it to a bunch of like-minded people. You get a bunch of answers, some lead to a solution. Sometimes the answer is super complex, sometimes its simple, but its the collaboration that fixes the issue.
In an office your bottle necked by politics and protocol so you can't really get the free-flow collaborative thinking you can get in a Internet community. If you give an office/company a forum or community site to bounce ideas around a lot of times you get the very best answers that way. Then you can refine the idea in the office in a more traditional medium and setting.
A place I worked for a while called IQ Interactive had a blog that everyone contributed too. It was for employees only... it sparked some of the most creative and technically advanced concepts - I remember one of the concepts came from an intern that was working there. She would have never had her idea used had she presented it in a meeting - but since it was posted to the blog and everyone collaborated on it, the company used it.
I was actually going to suggest that. xD Because if he runs away in the yard and you can't get him at night -- obviously a leash restricting him to run off would make tons of sense.
Comments
I would never leave a dog out all night, I would have to figure out some other type of solution. Maybe Kona would like to share a kennel at night with one of the other dogs? Maybe his collar would keep him quiet. Kona is big and strong, but how much damage could a PACK of Coyote do before you or the other dogs could make it outside? Why risk it.
How do you not have a shotgun yet? I know you don't like guns, but if Coyotes have literally tried to jump at/through your windows then you need to have something to protect, you, Jen and the dogs. I'm sure if you ran outside and put a shot in the air, it might make them stay away a little longer than just turning on the light. I don't think you would ever need to fire directly at a living animal. If you are going to live in the places that you enjoy living, a bit of protection seems necessary.
Edit - I know a dog in your bedroom is not ideal, but I am glad last night went well.
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Well, some news, and this may be totally not related or could be related 100%. Seems a little coencidental for it not to be related, but I am still skeptical that it is.
Kona attacked Fuji today. Fuji and Kona have NEVER had an issue, they got along fine - actually they got along great, until today.
You see, this is what I fear most about allowing one of our dogs to sleep with us. Our dogs sleep together in tight corders(sp?) as a pack. I have found that this is one of the most important aspects to keeping a happy pack, allowing the dogs to be totally calm and submissive around each other - sleeping as a pack, imo, is one of the best forms of bonding. Often times new pups we introduce do ok at first, then by the next night they are the best of buds and part of the pack and I believe this is because they spent a night next to each other sleeping as a pack.
Jen and I are the pack leaders, we can sleep where we want to, but the dogs sleep downstairs on the ground - because that is the way we want it - as the pack leaders. And as subordinate pack members the MUST listen to the pack leaders.
We allow Kona [who is full of testosterone, self-importance, and confidence] spend one night elevated above the rest of the pack and now he is falsely pushing his new "position" in the pack.
Like I said, it may not be related but Kona has never shown ANY aggression to ANY of his pack mates until today - the day after he was allowed to sleep with the pack leaders.
No more sleeping in our room for Kona [or any other dog].
PS: Neither was hurt and they seem fine now, Jen was with them and stopped it before it got to bad. Kona was in it for kill tho... over nothing, no toy, food, etc.
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If there were no stimuli to his aggression, why did he pick Fuji?
Maybe its time to try to blanket over his crate?
I would say it is related, but who knows?
The blanket thing would work except that we have mistakenly put soft things [like jackets, dogs beds, etc] on Kona's crate, then go to bed nothing about it... we wake up to that object being torn to shreds.
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I think the solution is going to be ignoring it... I think that's the only course of action - its gonna suck ass. I may video the process... just for fun. lol.
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Last night went horrible, we left Kona in his crate and went to bed at 11pm. The Coyotes stopped by for their nightly visit/harassment at about 12 and woke up the "hell beast" [aka Kona]. Kona cried from 12 to 2:45am then got quiet... we smelled the delicious aroma of fresh dog poo, went down stairs to see what the deal was. He had sprayed crap all over the wall, Loa [in a crate next to him], the floor and himself. We cleaned up the mess then went back to bed at about 4am. He slept till 5:45am, then started crying again. He cried till 7:30am. At that point Jen and I got up because we couldn't take it anymore. It was a restful night.
See, this is the issue... He cries when he needs to go out, and he cries when he just wants out... so he cries wolf... and we can't tell when its real or fake. If we get up and let him out each time then he gets his way and we are not ignoring him. If we don't and he craps himself then we are bad parents.
He drives us crazy with this - this is the only thing he does wrong, he is good otherwise, but this is just soooooooooooo bad.
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Poor Kona, poor you & jen, poor floor, poor wall, & of course, poor, poor innocent by-stander Loa! [ that must not have been a nice thing to wake up to in the middle of the night...a face full of shit
Ahh. I have no ideas for you Brad, except maybe get rid of all the coyotes in the area & create an invention to mask the scent of the females in heat. ~
You guys have a pretty set schedule on how you feed and take out your pups right? Im wondering why he had to poop at 3am. I think it might have been out of anxiety, not because he really needed to go. Ninja has pooped from fear/anxiety 2 times. Its really strange, the first time was at the vet and the second time is when my brother brought like 15 people over. He had just pooped like an hour before and then he went into his pen and pooped again.
I think you just need to ignore the behavior. You have a schedule, he needs to follow it. He has been with your pack long enough and knows you are the pack leaders. You should not have to wake up to take him out, he has to wait for you to wake up to be let out. Maybe he is in that stage where he is challenging you? I think it's best if you just keep doing things as normal, but ignore and correct behavior that is not wanted. I'm sure he'll grow out of it soon!
Good Luck guys!
I've seen wold deterrents based on sound used to keep away wolves by ranchers around yellowstone national park. It is a compromise between the ranchers and environmentalists.
I looked up a product used to deter coyotes it supposedly does not affect dogs, it uses instinctual sounds of a cougar to deter the coyotes, it says it has a 1 year money back guarantee, I don't know what your budget is like though, It looks like it runs somewhere around $130.00 to $160.00 some dollars.
It would be a nonviolent method to deter the coyotes without harming them and maybe calm Kona down if they are not provoking him, and even if he still wants to be out maybe this product would keep the coyotes away.
Coyotes are crazy, I don't think many dogs could really take a coyote without serious damage, and if he is outside they probably would not be stopped by a fence as they are excellent climbers.
Personally I would try something like this before resorting to using the gun, even if your shooting in the air, the bullets are coming down somewhere, but if the coyotes are jumping in your windows that is dangerous, however the land you own is shared with the animals who have always lived there, try to find a happy balance for both you and the coyotes.
I like your idea about the LGD as well but would still be slightly worried about them depending on the number of coyotes.
i hope this is helpful, good luck!
apparently wolf urine is a deterrent too.
I know I am no where near as knowledgable about your pups as you, or anyone else here for that matter... But I do have a suggestion.
We had a problem with Bella wanting to stay outside at night last summer. We live in the city, and do not have a physical fence, so there is no way that would ever happen. While, at this point, she was sleeping in our bedroom (on her own bed, of course) we ended up having to crate her because she would pace all night long. Even in the crate, she would get up at 2 or 3 in the morning and bark and whine. When we ignored her, she had an accident in her crate. That was the first time she had EVER had an accident.
After that, if she woke us up in the middle of the night, either me or my husband (we took turns) would get up, put her on a short leash, and take her out. We have her 5 minutes to do her business if she needed, and if not, we would take her back in and put her back in the crate. It only took 3 nights of this for her to realize we were not going to let her stay out all night, or even go out for a midnight romp, and she was back sleeping in her nice comfy bed. That may be a sugguestion for Kona, take him out on a short leash and then bring him in.
I am not sure if it will work, but maybe worth a try if you are worried about not being able to tell the difference between him crying because he needs to go out or crying because he WANTS to go out.
Andrew - I have spoke some of the ranchers about deterrent systems that use sound to keep the Coyote away, they said they didn't work for them. That is why I have not explored them. I didn't know about Wolf urine tho - I may try that! Thanx!!!!
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Last night went better, Kona slept till 6:05am... so we finally got some sleep. Jen got us some earplugs too - they helped. So I got to sleep till 7:45!
Thanx!
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Dave were chatting about it, and based on our chats, I was ready to build something to help stop this Kona issue. lol.
[Do you think that's a "male thinking vs. female thinking" thing?]
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Another note...
This is a good example of collaborative thinking and the power of the Internet.
The Internet is setup in a way that, if you have an issue, you put it out on the web and present it to a bunch of like-minded people. You get a bunch of answers, some lead to a solution. Sometimes the answer is super complex, sometimes its simple, but its the collaboration that fixes the issue.
In an office your bottle necked by politics and protocol so you can't really get the free-flow collaborative thinking you can get in a Internet community. If you give an office/company a forum or community site to bounce ideas around a lot of times you get the very best answers that way. Then you can refine the idea in the office in a more traditional medium and setting.
A place I worked for a while called IQ Interactive had a blog that everyone contributed too. It was for employees only... it sparked some of the most creative and technically advanced concepts - I remember one of the concepts came from an intern that was working there. She would have never had her idea used had she presented it in a meeting - but since it was posted to the blog and everyone collaborated on it, the company used it.
Pretty neat!
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That example is right on, Brad.