On-Lead vs Off-Lead Behavior

RomiRomi
edited August 2008 in Behavior & Training
OK - so you all remember when I first hired Frank, my behaviorist. The first session he came out...he was able to do some training with Ninja and pet him on the head without any issues.

Well Today...for some reason my brother wanted to walk the dogs in the late afternoon so he put the collar on Portia and was attempting to put it on Ninja...but he was very hesitant and kept running away when my brother would get close...but then sit down and wait for the collar and then run away when he got close. So I ended up putting on Ninja collar and giving the leads to my brother.

Well after 10 minutes of walking and noticing that Ninja was more relaxed, I wanted to test Ninja, so I told my brother to tell Ninja to do a sit/stay and walk a couple steps ahead and tell him to come to him. So he did and Ninja was wagging exitedly while walking to my brother. So I told my brother to make him sit again and this time when he sits - say "GOOD BOY!" and pet his back. So he told Ninja to sit and then pet his back. JUST LIKE THAT!

So - I guess my question is...do your dogs act differently on-lead vs off-lead? Ninja seems to be more comfortable with "new" people if they walk him and do a bit of training with him. But off-lead - he won't let anyone get near him.

Or is it possibly because he is on-lead and knows he can't run away even if he tried? But then I would think he would become more aggressive and start growling or bite if someone got close or attempted to touch him..

I want my brother to do this more often to see if Ninja will get more and more comfortable with him and eventually get used to him off-lead as well. But it's hard to rely on someone else to be consistent.

Comments

  • LeonbergerLeonberger
    edited November -1
    There was a German Shepherd at one of the companies I worked in that would do something similar. While off leash he would refuse to obey anything you would say to him. As soon as you got a leash on him, he'd be almost an angel, he'd heel perfectly, sit, down all immediately, and would do so happily. He wasn't skittish or shy off leash though.
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    There is a TREMENDOUS difference in both Moto and Miko when they are ON leash. Piglet not so much. My little Japanese pack are wild animals off leash, and suddenly can hear when on. Piglet listens regardless.

    Miko listens better than Moto. But I think it was Paul (owner of Mura, Mikos sister) who told me that the shiba motto is "mine" and the shikokus motto is "teach me"
  • ljowen123ljowen123
    edited November -1
    Jazz responds better to commands on leash - I believe she knows it's "work-time"
  • MommyofNikoMommyofNiko
    edited November -1
    Niko listens on leash much better, I think she believes if she listens well the leash comes off...
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    ditto above, two of my three are much better on lead, more comfortable, more eager to listen and meet and greet. Except Kitsune. He needs to meet you a few dozen times before he's comfortable with anything anywhere.
  • RomiRomi
    edited November -1
    hmm...thats intresting...so it seems most dogs behave better on-lead vs off. Like Jess said about Piggy...Portia doesn't seem to act any diffrerent either.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    Nemo is better on a lead too. Even just having it on and dragging it around when people are at our place helps. I feel that when you, the owner of the dog, whom they trust the most, is at the other end of the leash giving them direction it calms them. They don't have to think about as much because you are there.

    Nemo also has to meet people a few times before they can come too close. However with a leash on I can get him to sit calmly by my feet even with strangers around, without the leash he is under the bed, possibly barking. Yes the tough guy barks at strangers from under the bed.
  • RomiRomi
    edited November -1
    LOL! Funny you mention that Brandon...When 3+ people come over - Ninja barks and howls at the top of the stairs and when they start walking up, he will run upstairs, go under the bed and start grunting and howling for another couple of minutes. I should try keeping Ninja on lead inside the house and see how he reacts to my brother. I never thought of that! Thanks Brandon!
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited November -1
    A lead inside the house is a must, when people are over. Even if they are just dragging it, you can instantly grab it and get control.

    I had people over last Saturday night and Nemo did pretty well, yes there was some barking and shyness, but there was one great moment. Andy was over (he moved out a couple weeks back) and Nemo wanted to go see him but he was sitting on the couch with one of my other friends Isaac. Nemo has met Isaac a good amount of times but never consistently enough to really get to like him. However he got brave and jumped up between them. He took treats and petting from Isaac while he visited with Andy. I was pretty great to see.
  • diggahdiggah
    edited November -1
    Moach was trained with a choke chain and while I don't like to use it, if he decides that it's too wet to go for a walk; all I have to do is put it on him and he is willing to suffer the indignities of getting his paws wet. Funny thing is, I don't even hook it up to the lead. Just putting it around his neck seems to assert enough authority to get him to knuckle under.

    Also, the bit about your brother having a hard time hooking him up to the lead made me smile. I used to get a lot of that, and I really believe that it's more of a game than anything else. To me it reflects the animal's preception of your brother's place in the pack:

    Ninja-"Mom feeds me, I have to be nice to her; you're just another yard ape here for my amusement, now let's see you run." :0)
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    "Yard ape"

    HAHAHA

    I can hear Moto Saying to my husband "Run Monkey Boy!! Run!!!"
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    yard ape!!! diggah you are a riot.
  • RomiRomi
    edited August 2008
    So I toook a 4 hour nap today! LOL..I don't even know how that happened. Anwyays - I guess while I was napping...my brother took out the dogs for me (he is being strangely helpful with them recently...) Anyways...he called Ninja and Portia down and I guess only Portia came down...then he shook the collar and lead and then Ninja came running. He said today there were no issues with putting his collar on. Ninja ran down and sat right in front of him and let him put it on. They went on a stroll and my brother made him do a "sit" before he crossed the strret and was able to pet him on his head and back for a bit longer this time. I wasn't there to see it...but he said Ninja didn't seem nervous or aggressive at all when he went to pet him.

    This definately makes me think that I am the issue for ninja's behavior. He seems to act more mellow with new people when I am not around. Even at the vet - I now sit and wait in the waiting room while they take him in to the exam room to check him out and they always say he does fine and doesn't growl or anything.

    HMPH :T
  • JessicaRabbitJessicaRabbit
    edited November -1
    I KNOW that I am a contributing factor to my dogs (all of them in their own ways) issues. I think it is hard not to be. Often times we condone more because we love our babies and we don't even realize we are doing it. I think it is only natural.

    I know so many trainers who will tell you it is so much easier to train dogs you have no emotional ties to.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited August 2008
    Nemo goes into protective mode (barking out windows, at strangers) much more quickly and for a longer duration when I am there. My parents always say that he hardly ever barks at anything at their house when I am not there, and he barks at all sorts of things out the windows here. I certainly do not encourage it (the barking), but it seems to be a part of our relationship.
  • RomiRomi
    edited August 2008
    BRANDON...YOU ARE MY HERO!!!

    So we tried putting Ninja on-lead inside the house and it worked!!! My brother was able to pet him without being growled at. Ninja did look tense in the beginning, but he seemed to not mind it too much. I think he was a little confused too. But overall - I AM SHOCKED!!! I got a video clip of it last night...youtube finally came through and uploaded it. ITS AMAZING!!!

    Brandon - THANK YOU AGAIN!!! I am TRULY thankful for you and the forum! I think with this new technique...it will be much easier for Ninja to allow strangers to get closer to him and eventually be more comfortable without the lead on. AND....We didn't even have to use food for motivation!!!

    Here is my little man in action!



  • SangmortSangmort
    edited November -1
    Yay! Go Ninja :D!~
  • okironokiron
    edited November -1
    Woohoo! *does happy dance for Ninja*
  • MommyofNikoMommyofNiko
    edited November -1
    Take off the collar and he was like what the hell was I doing?
    My girls started barking and ran to the door when Ninja and Portia barked.
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    edited November -1
    thats awesome!!!! bravo to brandon, romi and ninja!

    (side note; i don't know if i ever noticed ninja and portia's matching white patches! CUTE!)
  • cas12cas12
    edited November -1
    When we go and visit family with the dogs they will not go into the house with the leads on when you take them of thy are straight in there. I couldn't say what they are like outside, as we are not allowed by law to let Akitas off the lead in public places due to the angerous dog act which gets up my goat.
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    edited August 2008
    I love it when Ninja looks at your brother like he's stupid when he keeps asking for his paw.

    Ninja does really well with your brother and the leash. It's odd how it changes behavior like that for dogs.
  • sujewelsujewel
    edited November -1
    Well done, Ninja!!!! Mika and Keigo are definitely more attentive on lead than off. Is your brother used to dogs? They way he's petting both dogs seems a little unnatural. Or is he just unsure because of Ninja's previous behavior towards him?
  • RomiRomi
    edited November -1
    LOL Brandon - I know! But he taught Portia how to give paw...so maybe he was trying to teach Ninja. Its seriously so crazy how much different the behavior is with the leash!

    My brother has been around dogs as much as I have. Although - he never had a dog of his own. It was always mine or my sister's dogs. He is a little nervous with Ninja. Before when Ninja was off-lead and my brother would try to pet him, he would get growled at and snapped at sometimes. So I think he is a little scared. But I think if we keep doing it - he will get more comfortable with him. He is used to Portia and Portia likes to be patted kind of hard and she does play rough with him. So I think he might just be used to patting dogs like that.
  • HeidiHeidi
    edited November -1
    Tojo is obsessed with the "catch me if you can" game, so off leash can be frustrating. Even if he WANTS to come. For instance, if he's had enough outside time, is exhausted and thirsty, and wants to come in, he'll wait by the door until I come up behind him to let him in, then he runs away and play-bows and tries to get me to chase him. When is he going to realize that I'm not fast and nimble enough to play wrestle-and-chase with a shiba?!

    Anyway, on-leash, he's a perfect gentleman for me, but he tends to not let other people pet him. I think that goes back to an experience he had as a puppy, though. When I was walking him, a kid ran up and grabbed his leash and started pulling it up, choking him. I immediately told the kid to leave my dog the eff alone, but the damage was still done. Off-leash he's actually super mellow and friendly with everyone.
  • apshibaapshiba
    edited November -1
    Frost is very good off-leash at home. we will call him randomly while he is playing by himself and make sure he will come (followed by a treat). He runs up the stairs looking to open bedrom doors. But most times he will come when called. only when he gets really rebelious, we will put him in crate for 1 minute timeout.

    When someone is visiting our house, I will always put on leash for initial excitement and i give guests some treats to offer to Frost. Once that ritual is done, he settles down and I take the leash off and he is a good boy, responds to most commands, nornmally does not jump on adults. with younger kids he tries to dominate as kids move too fast which he treats as game.

    I have been taking Frost for training since he was 3 months old. Right now we are doing intermediate training at Petsmart (my both trainers have been very good). I guess continuous training is needed.

    What I do is, everyday at random times I will conduct 5 minutes of training 3 times a day and concentrate only on 2-3 commands pere session and I also vary the treats he gets (cherios, few other meaty treats). for example, in the morning before he gets food, i will make him heel with me around the house. do rapid fire sit/down. In the afternoon after I come back from work, i will give him a biscuit or two and then play a game of fetch with him (work on command = fetch, he is very good at retrieving tennis balls and bringing back to get a treat, then I will work on stay and wait. Everyday i will make a point to pet him all over his body, put my fingers in his mouth to check teeth, touch paws, i even carry him like a baby for 2 minutes around the house. he is now used to human touch. Many times my kids will lie down on the carpet next to him and then can give him belly rub for like 10 minutes!


    I have also found that if he knows "i have treats in my hand/pouch" he is very obedient.
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