Is you Shiba THAT clean?

Saki · October 2008

I heard that Shibas were very clean dogs, but to that extent!!! I never knew.
I don't know what she could have eaten outside, but Sachi got sick last week.

We are not home during the day and we leave her in the cage, so she really had to go. Instead of doing it in a corner of her cage, she sticked her ass on the cage and pooped on the other side...which is my floor, lucky it's not carpet.

Then the next day she was outside in the backward, started crying and walking towards the field (I'm not fence in the back, there's no neighbourg). I followed her 'cause I thought she found something. I went into the woods, saw her sticked her head under branches and just barf. That same night she cried and I let her go outside and followed her from far, again she took off in the woods to go barf.

Does you Shiba wants to go outside when she feel sick?

Sangmort · October 2008

I know most dogs [ & the nihon ken even more so ] HATE to soil the area in which they sleep, so I'm not too surprised she stuck her little butt out ;D

The barfing thing is pretty interesting though...~

jikjak · October 2008

i hope your dog is feeling better now!
they defnitely are clean dogs and dont like to go to the bathroom near places where they eat and sleep

MommyofNiko · October 2008

Niko has only had less than a handful of accidents in her 3 years. And that was once while potty training and twice when we moved to a new home and it didnt occur to me to retrain her. Niko has held her functions for more than 24 hours before. Refusing to go in the rain and no accidents.

lindsayt · October 2008

I had a pomeranian (I think I still have some residual ringing in my ears from the constant yapping) who would poop in his crate (simply awful) but then kick it through the bars so I would come home and find it flung across the room...f***ing dog. I don't know if he was trying to be clean or territorial but that's the only poo-soccer playing dog I ever knew. I am so enjoying the clean toilet habits of the shibas in comparison.

dlroberts · October 2008

The barfing thing is quite interesting. Joey, on the rare occasion he does, generally vomits from drinking too much water. So there isn't much warning, he just sort of opens his mouth and spews. Lucy, on the other hand, has vomited from being sick a lot. It usually comes in one of two forms: 1) she's sleeping, wakes up, and only has enough time to appear distressed before vomit comes out; and 2) she's clearly not feeling well, crying like crazy, and running around trying to find a hidden place to throw up. This can include under the table, in a hallway we infrequently use, or one time she even tried to make it under my bed (lucky for me I got there in time to redirect her). One thing is certain though, if she has a choice between carpet and tile/hard wood, she'll always choose the carpet. :-/

I suspect the going into the woods was more an attempt to hide it from you than to be clean. Dogs, especially Shibas, try to hide weakness. One way I know that Lucy isn't feeling well is that she won't want to be near me. She'll prefer to be under the table in the next room by herself. So, I suspect that's what Sachi was doing. Makes sense in my head anyway.

Jen posted a link to this a few months ago, but I was reminded of it so I thought I'd repost because I was cracking up when I read it: 4 types of dog vomit.

AkiraleShiba · October 2008

Akira usually asks for the door when he has to barf, unless we are at my grandma s then he will barf on the living room carpet lol

Saki · October 2008

Any idea how to keep her from "cleaning" her cage after she had an accident? This behaviour makes her even more sick! And she never can be o.k.

MommyofNiko · October 2008

Im confused by your question...is she eating and drinking her excrement?

scientiste · October 2008

Hm, I must be pretty lucky. Tsuki has never had an accident, and never vomited - then again, we've only been together less than 2 months.

tsukitsune · October 2008

Besides the answer to MommyofNiko's question - how old is Sachi? How long is she confined to her crate? How long has she been sick? Has she been to the vet since she's been sick?

Ryu · October 2008

Nothing compares to the tissue paper episode when Ryu was younger. He wasn't feeling too well but was antibiotics and we had to go back to work. So, we left him in the bathroom in case he had to throw up or go #2. When I came home, I opened the door, he shot out like a rocket and I see two piles of doodoo on the bathroom floor. But that's not the kicker. The little rascal retrieved a new roll of toilet paper from the counter, shredded it to bits and proceeded to place the torn bits of paper ON TOP OF THE POOP! There is no tissue scattered around the bathroom - they are purposefully placed on the poop piles! I have a picture if you are so inclined LOL

LoveMyMylie · October 2008

OMG PAM... That's hilarious!

Sachi, I hope your pup is feeling better, I have all the same questions as Jen (tsukisune)

KFontaine04 · October 2008

Both my shiba's are very clean and hate to go pee or poop in the house. I have a 9 week old girl who is pretty much house trained because she doesn't like to go in the house. She will go once a day on her potty paper and thats it, she hates the paper once she has soiled it and would rather hold it than go on the paper again or on the floor. It's amazing how clean Shiba's are!

Saki · October 2008

MommyofNiko wrote: Im confused by your question...is she eating and drinking her excrement?

Yes, that's right : ( I can see only a bit of left over in her cage. Maybe if I make the cage bigger and has an accident she will leave it there.

tsukitsune wrote: Besides the answer to MommyofNiko's question - how old is Sachi? How long is she confined to her crate? How long has she been sick? Has she been to the vet since she's been sick?

Sachi is 4 month old.
She's in her crate for about 9hrs, but that's not the problem she did 12hrs in the past. This last month she had diarrea on and off. I talked to the vet about it, but did not bring her since she eats well and is very active.

Do you think I should try to get a poop sample to bring to the vet anyway?

MommyofNiko · October 2008

This is NOT normal behavior for Shiba's. I think the best thing is to consult your vet and take a sample in. She may have a vitamin deficiency or something else. She may have made it 12 hours before in the past but she may have reverted. Do you have anyway or anyone who can stop in and take her out mid day? This is just not typical for a shiba and with how clean they are I would wonder what else is going on. Just my opinion...Dont want to alarm you.

StaticNfuzz · October 2008

Yes....take your pup in for a check. The throwing up and pooping at odd hours indicate there is a bit of internal distress that probably needs some treatment. Puppies get into all sorts of things, all they have to do is inhale or swallow some microbial parasite and then they have a problem. Some dogs do eat poop if they get in a habit of cleaning up from confined spaces since they don't like sitting in it. Be sure to keep the sleeping quarters clean & make sure you clean up all outdoor areas of feces too after your dog has done its business also.

Yeah as Rachel stated, maybe a dog sitter/walker person can come in during the day to help with the routine. Nine hours is a long time to wait for a four month old pup. Many dogs are not reliable in the potty training department until 8 months or more. It depends on the dog. Puppies need to be allowed to relieve themselves often.

Most Shibas are very tidy but ones that have been kenneled too long in dirty cages, such as pet stores etc sometimes have developed the poop eating habit. Some outgrow it, others have to have diversion training using a clicker so that you can teach them to come to you instead of nosing around in the grass for left over "dookies".

Talk to you vet to gain more advice.

Snf

Saki · October 2008

She doesn't eats up her poop when outside. It's really the one she does in her cage. I also have a German mix Akita and she did the same thing when she had an accident in her cage (she was a year old back then).

Unfortunately, everybody around works during the day and I work way too far to come back home during lunch time.

Just thinking that my collegue is gone in vacation for 3 weeks now and that I have to work 5 days/week when usually I don't work on Wednesday. I wonder if I was home for those 3 last Wednesday if Sachi would have been better or it has nothing to do with that.

I think I'll call tomorrow for an appointment and go drop a sample.

tsukitsune · October 2008

9 hours is an incredibly long time for a 4 month old puppy. I was always told you have to give them time for pottying one hour for every month they are until AT LEAST 8 months or older. That means in the LEAST, a 4 month old pup should be let out twice during your work day.
Besides going to the vet and bringing them a stool sample, have you considered an x-pen for leave her in during the day, a bed on one side and pee pads on the other? She's probably very distressed about having to go and not being let out for so long than eating it to clean it. An x-pen would give her a bit more space and comfort if she cannot hold it. Poor Sachi.

Saki · October 2008

I'll expand her cage since she is in an extra-big cage and put a puppy pad at the end in case of emergency. My little pinky is telling me that she's gonna shred that puppy pad. if bored.

MommyofNiko · October 2008

Do a trial with her. Put it in and leave for a short period of time. She probably will and you dont want her to eat it and get blocked. Are you able to use a small room such as a bathroom so it is much larger and not so confining.

Saki · October 2008

Yes, I could try in the bathroom, but my husband won't want that. I'll try in the cage full size.
Last night she went to bed at 9pm and did not cry until we got up this morning at 9am (12hrs) and when I took her outside she did not seems in a hurry to go do her stuff. It's been 2 days now that she is fine. I'll take it from there and watch more carefully what she eats when she goes out. There's a school nearby and kids throw all kinds of stuff on the other side of the fence which is part of our woods.

lindsayt · October 2008

I guess I'll throw out another theory, but I always thought a good measure of how long a pup can hold it is 1 hour for every month until 6 months (4 months old=can reliably/safely hold it 4 hours). After 6 months I think their bladder/bowel muscles are well enough developed and trained to go a full work day. Of course, as most dogs have the instinct not to soil their den (primitive breeds maybe more so), a 4 month pup will hold it longer than 4 hours under stress. If this is healthy or good for their kidneys? Probably not. 9 hours in a small crate is a long time. 12 hours is way too long for a puppy so an ex-pen would be a good idea. Poo eating, is most often from boredom, after malnutrition/heavy parasite load. If your pup is spending more than 12 hours in a crate each day, that's a lot of time not spent getting exercise, socializing, playing and stretching legs so this is sort of when dogs develop those pernicious neurotic behaviors that are really hard to get rid of like corprophagia, pacing, licking, and so on.

Saki · October 2008

Tonight I had to let her go out twice, but I have to say that yesterday she ate like a pig; not more than she's supposed too, but more than the last week.
Today it is Thanksgiving for us, so vetenerians are closed. I'll go tomorrow for a check up and bring a sample. When she was 3 months she had worms (disgusting), I gave her the pill the vet gave me and since then she's fine, maybe this has to do with todays diarrea.
I'm getting really concern about her and please don't think I don't care enough for her because she's stuck in her cage the whole day ... I have no other choice. The reason why I took so long before going to the vet, is because she was getting better and then boom! sick again.

Sachi is so full of energy, you should have seen her yesterday when we went up north, she had a blast in the woods. I cannot imagine her being this sick, maybe it's only the kind of food she's eating, but It's been a month now that I'm slowly switching her to Eagle Pack.

I'll give you some more news tomorrow night, after my appointment with the vet.

janda422 · October 2008

I'd also recommend gating off a bathroom like was mentioned above. Or the kitchen maybe? Just put up anything like bath mats or towels that might seem interesting for a dog and pick up a trashcan with a lid. Figure that linoleum or tile is a lot easier to clean if there are any accidents, too. The only thing that makes a dog want to take care of business outside is the instinct to not go in their den (ideally they eventually extend their den from their crate to the rest of the house). If they ever get used to going where they have to sleep, and can't get away from it, then it's going to break down that instinct and make for a lot of behavior that's going to be harder to correct in the long run. The extra space would give some room to run around and play with toys and get rid of some of that extra energy too.

Nine hours does seem like a really long time for four months. Our pup can do the eight hours overnight, but he goes more often than that during the day when his sleep pattern is more broken up into naps.

Saki · October 2008

Well, I dropped off the sample tonight and by the time I got back home I got the result on my anwsering machine. She has two types of parasites. Tomorrow I have to go back to the vet to get her medecine; a kind of powder that you mix in the food, once a day for 3 days. : ( I should have gone before : ( I feel so bad now, but at least she's gonna be fine.
So more news about Sachi in 3 days folks!

tsukitsune · October 2008

Well at least they figured out the cause, you should plan on giving her some more space than the crate during the day so she doesn't re-ingest the parasites she poops out.
Good luck.

Saki · October 2008

Good things and bad things ...
The bad thing is: when I came back home tonight, she had an explosive diarrea during the day.
The good thing is: I gave her full size of the cage and she did not ate her poop since she had a lot more free space. It's a X-large dog cage, which I had for my other dog.

And the other good thing is that she's starting her medecine tonight and it should get better within 24hrs. I have to give her a sort of powder (panacur) with her food once a day for 3 days and again the same thing 10 days later. So November 3rd, I have to give an other sample to see if everything is fine.

dlroberts · October 2008

That's a standard treatment for parasites. Some vets (and breeders) recommend a semi-annual deworming even if they don't test positive for parasites. The 10 day repetition is because some live parasites can come out in the stool and be reabsorbed by the body via skin contact or actual ingestion. By repeating the treatment, you will hopefully kill off any of the remaining parasites before they have a chance to mature. Also, some parasites have a dormant phase so the repeated treatment will increase the odds that you attack them when they aren't dormant.

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't work the first time. Depending on the particular parasite, it can take two or three (or more) treatments before you see results. Lucy had hookworm and giardia when I got her from the "breeder" and it took three treatments before she got better.

But I agree with Jen, at least you've got a diagnosis!

Is you Shiba THAT clean?

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