Questions about Shibas....
Well, I've read as much as I think I can...I've visted w/ shibas. I've talked with our breeder (Leslie Engen (Sanjo Kennels) in Redmond, WA)...but, I still have a few questions.
Water...do Shibas like water?? We love going to the ocean and I live but a few miles from the beach, which has a dog park right there. Anyone known a shiba to go for a soak?
Male Dogs...from everything that I've read, Shibas are best suited for male/female combinations. However, has anyone ever brought in another male of a less dominant breed later? I'm just curious, because I might consider bringing in another puppy late next year...or when my new pup is about a year old.
Jumping...we have a six foot fence around our entire property, should that be sufficient or are they good jumpers?? I once saw an australian sheperd clear a six foot fence in one bound! Has your Shiba ever tried to tunnel his/her way out?
Has anyone managed to train their shiba to an expert recall? By expert, I mean 100% recall all the time...if so, what was your technique?
Vaccinations...My Eskie is highly allergic to vaccines. For the first 3 years of his life, he was having seizures...and I was told by the vet that this is common in Eskies. Someone suggested I skip a vaccine cycle...I did for one year, and no seizures...when I did a booster...seizure. So he has been vaccine and seizure free for 12 years (except for rabies, which is required for licensing). Has anyone experienced issues w/ vaccines and the Shiba?
While I'm on the subject of vets...I know there are a few Seattle area people on here. I live in Lynnwood (about 13 miles north of Seattle). Is there a vet you might reccommend? I'm willing to travel a bit... I have a vet here, but we just had a bit of a falling out a week ago...Because I am aware that I may need to take action for my dog I wanted to be sure that my vet was prepared and that I could come in at a moments notice if the need arised. I was outraged that they do not follow the humane euthenasia protocol (I had to explain it to them), and then they had the audacity to tell me that they would charge me 10.00 extra for being in the room with my dog when theyadministered the shot. I don't care about the money...but I could not find one reason they would do that to an owner....charge them for wanting to be there with their animal. That just reeks in my opinion and kinda pissed me off. Anyways, I am now in search of a vet that shows more compassion and professionalism in dealing w/ their clients.
That's about it for now...I'm sure there will be more down the road!!
Water...do Shibas like water?? We love going to the ocean and I live but a few miles from the beach, which has a dog park right there. Anyone known a shiba to go for a soak?
Male Dogs...from everything that I've read, Shibas are best suited for male/female combinations. However, has anyone ever brought in another male of a less dominant breed later? I'm just curious, because I might consider bringing in another puppy late next year...or when my new pup is about a year old.
Jumping...we have a six foot fence around our entire property, should that be sufficient or are they good jumpers?? I once saw an australian sheperd clear a six foot fence in one bound! Has your Shiba ever tried to tunnel his/her way out?
Has anyone managed to train their shiba to an expert recall? By expert, I mean 100% recall all the time...if so, what was your technique?
Vaccinations...My Eskie is highly allergic to vaccines. For the first 3 years of his life, he was having seizures...and I was told by the vet that this is common in Eskies. Someone suggested I skip a vaccine cycle...I did for one year, and no seizures...when I did a booster...seizure. So he has been vaccine and seizure free for 12 years (except for rabies, which is required for licensing). Has anyone experienced issues w/ vaccines and the Shiba?
While I'm on the subject of vets...I know there are a few Seattle area people on here. I live in Lynnwood (about 13 miles north of Seattle). Is there a vet you might reccommend? I'm willing to travel a bit... I have a vet here, but we just had a bit of a falling out a week ago...Because I am aware that I may need to take action for my dog I wanted to be sure that my vet was prepared and that I could come in at a moments notice if the need arised. I was outraged that they do not follow the humane euthenasia protocol (I had to explain it to them), and then they had the audacity to tell me that they would charge me 10.00 extra for being in the room with my dog when theyadministered the shot. I don't care about the money...but I could not find one reason they would do that to an owner....charge them for wanting to be there with their animal. That just reeks in my opinion and kinda pissed me off. Anyways, I am now in search of a vet that shows more compassion and professionalism in dealing w/ their clients.
That's about it for now...I'm sure there will be more down the road!!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
1. No. Shibas hate water and will act like they're dying/melting if you subject them to it. That being said, there are some Shibas that like to play in water.
2. Yes, they get along best in male/female pairs. That being said, male/male pairs can do just fine, especially if one comes in as a pup.
3. Shibas are good escape artists. They should not be in the back yard without supervision. If left to their own devices, they will probably dig.
4. I'm about 90% certain there is NO Shiba with expert recall. Some have decent recall but they are few and far between.
5. I have heard of allergic reactions to vaccinations, but no seizures. Reactions usually consist of hair loss or breathing problems, I think, and can be circumvented by dosing with Benadryl before getting vaccinated.
I can't suggest any vets as I don't live in your area, but hope you can find a good one.
My dog used to live with 2 other dogs; a JR Terrier (male) & a Knardly (Can hardly tell what she is.). They both passed away in 2004. He also lives with 2 cats.
Kirby is a good boy. There has been enough snow in the backyard to walk out, but never did.
I haven't had any issues with vaccines with Kirby.
I wish I could help you with the Vet, but I don't live in your area either. That is rotten of your Vet. I would be changing Vets. too.
Water - Remember the witch in the Wizard of Oz? I don't think that Tosca would ever swim. She dodges or tries to jump over puddles. She does not like to be out in the rain under any circumstances. Snow is ok, but liquid water is evil as far as she's concerned. I have managed to bathe her without an incident, but she was whiney and generally displeased.
Jumping - Tosca isn't much of a jumper. She is a climber. I've caught her climbing various furnishings, but I've also found evidence that she has climbed cabinetry and my dresser drawers as well. I don't know if she has the stamina for a six-foot, vertical climb, but I'd keep an eye on the puppy if I were you just in case he/she tries to be a SpiderShiba. Another thought: is there some of the fence material that's underground because I know Tosca can dig a serious hole when the mood strikes her. She could definitely find a way under a fence that didn't continue underground.
Recall - I've continued Tosca's training to a point I never thought I'd reach - except for recall. She's very food motivated, but her recall is still around 88%.
Vaccinations - Tosca had a reaction to a Lyme's disease vaccine. She was warmer than usual to the touch and wouldn't settle down for about 20-24 hours after the vaccine was given. She did not have a seizure. For the second, and final, shot in the series she was given a shot of Benadryl and there was no reaction.
If I've learned anything from three months of shiba ownership, it's that this is a breed made up of individuals more so than other dogs I've had. You've found a great resource here. This forum is an excellent place to get advice. Best of luck to you.
2. The key to shibas and gender is early socialization. My male got along with EVERYONE but I attribute most of that to lots of early socialization.
3. Know this, if there is something on the other side of a 20 foot fence, a shiba will find a way to get to it. Just as a rule never ever ever leave it unattended.
4. Shibas are primitive and VERY ( I cannot emphasize this enough) prey driven. That means you could have what one would consider a solid recall, and if a bunny runs by you have a better chance of summoning your fairy god mother than getting that dog to listen to you. I would say NEVER trust a shiba off leash outside of fenced areas.
5. My shiba had no issue with vaccines, but I do my best to minimally vaccinate as there is so much being written questioning the safety of them.
I'm here in Kirkland.
Hokkaido doesn't hate water, but he doesnt like it either. He'll sit nicely for baths but won't willingly jump into a lake or anything. Puddles he has no problem splashing though.
I dont have answers of any of the other questions, as I've only had Hokkaido a few months, but I can tell you.....no matter what advice you get or what answers you get, it could still end up totally wrong for your particular shiba. These guys are so ridiculously individual its unreal. The only real rule I've seen for dealing with them is.....be ready for anything!
Tikaani came into the picture about 3 months after Tetsu. At the time Tetsu was 5 months, Tikaani 2 months. They do get into a tiff now and then, especially since Tikaani is hitting puberty, but all and all they do get along very well. So long as you socialize your pups(classes, dog parks, play dates, etc.) he'll be better able to cope with a same gender dog. Also, when adding a new dog into the family, proper introductions can o a long way.
Just as everyone else has said, fences are climbable and their recall sucks. But it doesn't hurt to pursue in training them recall just in case they do listen in a life/death situation. 5% chance of listening is better than none.
I haven't experienced any allergies, but I have heard of food allergies being common in shibas. The worst we experienced was extreme tenderness for the first day.
Also, as you probable do know, be careful in what you put in your dog as far as vaccines go. We kept with the distemper five in one, rabies, and lyme(lots of ticks in summer). Putting too many drugs in your dog might be more harm than good. We knew someone who opted to give their dog everything cause the vet said they needed to. The poor thing had to be put down because the organs and muscles were disintegrating from a reaction to the vaccines.
I read that too about jumping. The 6 foot fence rule applies to some unnutered males. Females and fixed males jump less. Your fence should be fine. Chicken wire under the fence will help digging under.
o2. It is my personal belief that any two puppies regardless of gender can coexist peacefully, as long as the owner is willing to put time & effort into their coexistence together. It also helps if the dogs are both young and very, very very, well socialized. You'll know when the time comes whether or not your shiba will be compatible with other males. [ also, it will be much much MUCH easier if BOTH males are neutered ]
o3. I think a six foot fence will be fine, however, as others have stated never ever leave a shiba unattended. They are QUITE the escape artists. I've heard accounts of shibas tunneling out, so it's possible, but again, this goes back to never leaving a shiba unsupervised in a yard.
o4. Recall, no matter how well a shiba's recall is, whether it be 10% or 100%, this is not why shibas can't be trusted off leash. They can not be trusted because regardless of how well their training is if a shiba sees a squirrel, or mouse, or rabbit, or bird, or plastic bag flowing a certain way in the wind they will take off & their recall will immediately turn to ZERO. Shibas are HUNTERS & thus when they go into "hunt" mode, nothing can stop them...except, sadly, maybe getting hit by a car. Shibas should not be let off leash unless in a secure, fenced in area. This is my personal [ and the majority of most Nihon Ken followers ] belief.
o5. I know shibas can be a bit sensitive to vaccines, however, nothing that would result in seizures. You are more likely to get seizures in a Shiba from poor breeding...however, Shibas do tend to have a lot of food allergies, particularly to foods with grain or poor quality food. [ think; Eukaneuba, Iams, Beneful, etc. ]
Hope that helps. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask
2. It think it's better if you wait until your shiba reaches adulthood because I have met males that cannot ever tolerate other males castrated or not meanwhile Akira loves other doggies.
3. Akira is not very agile so even a half a feet fence is ok to stop him but I hear that not every shiba is like that.
4. We have let Akira off leash in the Alps since there is not much chances of getting run by a car. You have to be very vigilant to that in order to see things before your shiba does and we noticed that over a week, Akira took more and more liberty and as the time passed recall became slower and more random. I guess it's not recommended if you do not know your dog well enough or before he's 1.5 years old.
5. We had an horrible reaction to the Lepto vaccine, after a lot of research we decided to give rabies only because of the risks of being killed by the government if he ever came in contact with a rabies positive dog imported illegally from Africa. You can look into Jean Dodd's vaccination protocol if you're into minimal vaccination.
I currently have two shibas - a male (2y/o) and a female (will be 2 in June). We've also fostered three other males and one other female.
Water... My male will sniff and be curious, but will not submerge himself freely in any form on water. Our female will jump in without thinking!! She loves to be in and swim in water (but not during a bath). I think the murkier the water the more enticing for our female, too!! I attribute this to socialization (along with virtually everything else) - we took our female from a young age to lakes and fishing ponds, when we adopted our male a year ago, I don't think he had ever been out of his first house, so he's more hesitant to try most new things.
Male Dogs... Our male (neutered) got along with all but one male foster, and that was mostly my fault for a short and ineffective introduction period. He gets along with all dogs that we meet on walks or at the dog park, as does my female.
Jumping... Our female can jump to my height if she wants to (I'm 5'2) and my male can clear the couch from the back (at least 4') while running with no effort at all.
Although my two have never, our foster female dug constantly which outside. I think you need to fort knox your yard if you are ever going to leave a shiba unattended (which I do not recommend!)
Has anyone managed to train their shiba to an expert recall? By expert, I mean 100% recall all the time...if so, what was your technique?
No. And not that I haven't tried! My female has her CGC and is clicker trained and I still cannot and will not trust her off the leash, its just too risky. I can't think of any recreational reason that outweighs the risk.
Vaccinations... Mine have had their essential vaccines (booster, rabies) with no issue. They get 3 year vaccines and then level testing.
Good luck finding a vet! Are there holistic vets in your area?? Our holistic vet was the best investment we ever made.
Water...do Shibas like water?? Mine DO NOT! Miso tolerates the bath, but gives me a death stare the entire time. He does put his feet in water when it is very hot out, but refused to use the baby pool I bought him. He is a strange boy. Sake HATES HATES HATES bathtime and screams and kicks until it is over with. She will however roll in the mud.
Male Dogs...from everything that I've read, Shibas are best suited for male/female combinations. However, has anyone ever brought in another male of a less dominant breed later? - I had my Male first and he was great when we brought the female puppy into the mix. But, he also loves every dog on the planet and every person for that matter. I think it's all about socialization. Miso got to go everywhere with me as a pup, dog parks, train rides, car rides, bus rides, to stores, to petco, to everywhere! Plus we stressed the importance of having other dogs over so that way he didn't care when someone came into his "space". Sake is still going through this process and she is comming around, slower than Miso, but she still is doing great.
Jumping...we have a six foot fence around our entire property, should that be sufficient or are they good jumpers?? We have a four foot fence around our little yard and neither Miso or Sake ever tried to jump the fence. They are never unattended though. We are putting a 6 foot fence at the new house, but they still will not be allowed outside without a chapperone. They are DIGGERS! Especially Sake. We burried some masonry blocks under our fence because she was trying to tunnel out!
Has anyone managed to train their shiba to an expert recall? I don't know if Shiba's are capable of a 100% recall. They are too prey driven. I think an 80% recall is the best you would get. I WOULD NEVER HAVE MY DOGS OFF LEASH IN AN UNFENCED AREA THOUGH.
Vaccinations...Has anyone experienced issues w/ vaccines and the Shiba? Both Miso and Sake were fully vaccinated. They had no problems. My Husky however was allergic to some vaccinations and she required a benadryl shot before vaccinations to keep the allergic reaction to a minimal.
Hope that helped!
-- Some Shibas may like to get wet but most do not usually voluntarily go for a swim.
2. Male Dogs...from everything that I've read, Shibas are best suited for male/female combinations. However, has anyone ever brought in another male of a less dominant breed later? I'm just curious, because I might consider bringing in another puppy late next year...or when my new pup is about a year old.
--It depends on the dog. Like people some Shibas like some individuals better than others. As others above have mentioned, early and ongoing socialization with other pups (once you bring your Shiba home) will be a prime factor in how it will interact with other dogs in its future.
3. Jumping...we have a six foot fence around our entire property, should that be sufficient or are they good jumpers?? I once saw an australian sheperd clear a six foot fence in one bound! Has your Shiba ever tried to tunnel his/her way out?
Take a look at this link, the photo and details will explain it better than anyone could.
http://www.northeastshibarescue.com/escape.html
4. Has anyone managed to train their shiba to an expert recall? By expert, I mean 100% recall all the time...if so, what was your technique?
--Pretty much NO, meaning that it varies based on location and distractions. Inside yes, outside no, and that one time you leave your dog off leash is not worth the risk of road pizza or the panic of finding your dog in outer Mongolia. They can travel very far and fast when the desire to run hits them. Problem is we humans really don't know when that random urge will kick in (neutered or not).....it's better to be safe than sorry.
5. Vaccinations...My Eskie is highly allergic to vaccines. For the first 3 years of his life, he was having seizures...and I was told by the vet that this is common in Eskies. Someone suggested I skip a vaccine cycle...I did for one year, and no seizures...when I did a booster...seizure. So he has been vaccine and seizure free for 12 years (except for rabies, which is required for licensing). Has anyone experienced issues w/ vaccines and the Shiba?
--I would find a holistic vet and have your puppy vaccinated in increments with specific immunizations broken apart followed by titer tests. Lepto and Lyme can be difficult for some dogs.
But again it helps to break up the vaccinations rather than piling on all 5 or 6 at once, which overloads the immune system. I also suggest a subscription to Whole dog journal. Dr. Dodds has an good article in one of the back issues.
Allergies can be a big issue for some Shibas . Specifically food allergies and inhalation allergies (pollen, dust and pollution). Fortunately there are newer treatments for inhalation allergies now that do not reduce longevity. Although it can be pricey it is worth knowing with proper treatment that the dog may be around for it’s full life expectancy of the breed.
6. While I'm on the subject of vets...I know there are a few Seattle area people on here. I live in Lynnwood (about 13 miles north of Seattle). Is there a vet you might reccommend? I'm willing to travel a bit... I have a vet here, but we just had a bit of a falling out a week ago...Because I am aware that I may need to take action for my dog I wanted to be sure that my vet was prepared and that I could come in at a moments notice if the need arised. I was outraged that they do not follow the humane euthenasia protocol (I had to explain it to them), and then they had the audacity to tell me that they would charge me 10.00 extra for being in the room with my dog when they administered the shot. I don't care about the money...but I could not find one reason they would do that to an owner....charge them for wanting to be there with their animal. That just reeks in my opinion and kinda pissed me off. Anyways, I am now in search of a vet that shows more compassion and professionalism in dealing w/ their clients.
--Seek someone who has a willingness to work with you and the needs of the breed. The charging extra thing sounds fishy to me. Padding fees vs flat rate seems unprofessional so certainly look for another Vet. Try to find a vet with good diagnostic skills and is willing to consider holistic options too.
Snf
Water: Bella will only tolerate water (and that is until she gets in up to her chest) if there is something in the water that she wants like ducks. Even then, she acts like it is acid and is burning her fur off! Nola will splash around and play, but I have never seen her get fully submerged. She does shove her face in, and then forgets that she should not breath and comes up with water up her little nose.
Gender: I have two spayed females and they get along together great. However, we did get both as puppies and worked very hard to socialize Bella with all kinds of dogs. Even still, Bella is not a huge fan of males, especially intact males. If they sniff too much or get too close, she gives corrections. Nola however loves, and I mean LOVES, everyone and everything! The only exception to this rule is unruly children and large breed dogs when they bark. She gets a little overwhelmed in those situations, but quickly recovers once things calm down a bit.
Jumping: Bella will jump on pretty much anything. We do not have a traditional fence, so I am not sure if she would climb or jump the fence if given the chance. Nola will not jump on anything (including the furniture). All four feet rarely ever leave the ground. I think she may have a slight fear of heights, and we are working on that. Either way, I would never leave your pup (or adult Shiba) unattended even with a high fence. And yes, they dig. Especially as puppies.
Recall: Bella has great recall if she is in a familiar area with no distractions. But once you put a distraction in there (it could be anything, i.e. a rabbit, a kid playing a couple of yards over, rain, a song stuck in her head, etc.), that recall turns to nill. Sometimes even the lure of jerky can not get her to come. Nola has great recall in the house, but only about 40% outside. Neither of our dogs will ever be allowed off lead outside of a secure area.
Vaccines: Never had any problems with vaccines, but we just do the basics, boosters and rabies.
Vets: Fortunately, we have an awesome vet, but unless you want to travel with your pup to Virginia, I am not going to be much help there! But talk to some of your neighbors or friends, and maybe check out a meetup group and ask around.
Best of luck, and let us know if you have any more questions!
Thank you one and all for your input and insights! I will definately be putting your ideas and input to use when training/socializing (Name still unknown...were trying to come to a family consensus....our seven year old is holding out for Sushi...and I can't bring myself to name my dog after something I eat on a regular basis).
I put the vet question out to the Seattle Meetup group...totally forgot that I joined them!
I don't have too much to add, but I will tell you that my Keiko doesn't jump very high. What she lacks in jumping she MORE than makes up for in climbing. If she has her mind made up that she's going to get over the x-pen she will climb it like a ladder until she's on the other side. It's really a cute sight to see - mostly because it's in my house and the jingling catches my attention so that I'm aware of it... otherwise I would think of it as terrifying!
Hey I have a Miso and a Sake...there is nothing wrong with naming after things you LOVE!
I love Miso and Sake, those are great names!
Katie named her Shiba Inu on her Nintendogs game "sushi"...she adores her virtual Shiba.
I think Evan (kaddy) told me my next dog should be named Spicy Tuna Roll.
My girl has resided with an older ausssie female. A male pit mix about her age. And three female dogs ( aussie, pit mix, boxer mix) all younger than her. She did fine with all of them, she did get into scuffles (no one was ever hurt)with the pit mixes and the older aussie and it was over food every time.
My Shiba isnt a big jumper, but she will dig.
I can take her out with no leash to go potty. But she will take off if she knows im not looking.
She never has had any problems with vaccinations.
http://shibainus.ca/tms-in-a-nutshell-or-blast-from-the-past/
Enjoy...
Snf
I can't speak to this vets particular reasoning, but my guess is that the vet charged you extra to be with your dog at the time of euthanasia ($10 is low, they could have charged an office call on top of the euthanasia), becuase you were occupying a slot of time that would have otherwise been filled for an office call for someone else ($45-50 in this area at least). If you had not requested to be present and payed the fee for using the doctors time to do the euthanasia at that moment, the dog would have been euthanized at a time that was more convenient for the clinic, perhaps after all the appointments were finished, or maybe taken into a back room that would have kept the exam rooms open for other appointments. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's my guess.
If you want a vet referral, I can whisper one to you but they are in the South End/Federal Way area. Check out the Seattle Shiba Meet website, there is a lot of vet info listed there. I look forward to seeing pics of your pup. Who are the parents?
I'm going to try and stay on the north end for a vet...I might give Leslie a call/email and see if there is someone in Redmond she would reccommend. Actually, the complete cost to euthanize is 170.00 (if you want to be there)...160.00 if you don't. I guess I was just put off by the gal who just rambled it off and couldn't give me a good answer why they charge an owner for being there...she wasn't sure herself. I see your point though....it does make sense. Still, I think I would rather deal with a smaller vet that isn't a chain like VCA.
When I met w/ Leslie about three weeks ago, she had dogs that were 'expected' to be going into heat soon...so I don't know who the parent's are yet, or if they have even done the deed. However, what I wouldn't give to have a son from Lennie. He was absolutely adorable and what a personality! She did have a brand new litter (1 week old) when we were there (5 pups!!!)....they were a welcome winter surprise, especially given the litter size. She said that litter would put a pretty big dent in her waiting list...and said that a spring pup is pretty possible. I really enjoyed meeting her....my partner described Leslie best when said, "wow...now THAT is an ALPHA dog owner!"
Just my experience from going to various clinics....
Snf
Our Shiba is one of Leslie's, too (Taro x Carrie)! Seems like there's a couple of us on here nowadays. She was mentioning that she had a new litter when I dropped Taiko off for daycare a few days ago. She's been great to work with. I know that to a lot of people she can come across as a bit...much, sometimes, but it really shows how much love for her dogs she has. She knows what she wants of them (and their owners), and she knows how to get there. It may seem like she requires a lot from prospective owners too, but it really is for the best. We also worked with Diane Rich - all that early training and effort is PRICELESS. Really can't emphasize that enough! Where you go after that is up to you, but a solid foundation is such an important place to build from. Plus you'll get to hang out with Fraiser, who's just awesome.