RAw food diet & treats
OK, I've started Tsuki and Taro on a raw diet thanks to much advice from this forum and Taro's trainer. I am wondering, though, with a raw diet, does it matter what treats I give them? My Shibas loved greenies and so does Tsuki. Taro is still too young to eat them, but are they an OK treat w/ a raw diet? Any other treat suggestions? What about dehyrated sweet potatoes? I bought a knuckle bone for Tsuki, but after nibbling on it a little, she just buried it. I was concerned that the many racoons we have around would find it, so I took it in. When I gave it to her again, she tried to do the same thing. Thanks!
Felicia
Here she is enjoyng it...
Felicia
Here she is enjoyng it...
Comments
What type of raw food diet are you giving them? Something premade like Nature's Variety? Something commercial like Honest Kitchen? Or do you do BARF or Prey Model?
My understanding of BARF and Prey Model raw is that you do not need to give them bones much because their diet is complete with such things and should help them maintain dental health, etc.
With premade, you will need to supplement with chews to keep their teeth clean. I think any kind of chew they tolerate is just fine. We give ours bully sticks, trachea (freeze dried), tendon (FD), skate tails (like a fish bully stick). For treats, we use dehyrated beef lung, by Waggers: http://www.waggers.com/
For training, we use Yummy Chummies: http://alaskagift.com/yummychummydogtreatoriginal-3.aspx
Or Grizzly NuTreats: http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/grsaoilbrnu6.html
Or zukes mini naturals: http://www.zukes.com/woof/mini-naturals.html
Other treats are PB/Yogurt filled frozen Kongs, baked or steamed sweet potato/pumpkin... pretty much anything without Wheat, Corn or Soy fillers.
Taro's trainer likes Bravo and she pretty much sold me on it. I like the variety available and the fact that some of their products have bone in them, so I don't have to try to remember if they have had their bone lately. Tsuki (BTW, I love your forum name) my Tsuki did not like the chicken necks. I may save them for Taro or throw them into a food processor. She seems to eat chicken that way. I just rotate from one tube to another, beef, rabbit, lamb, buffalo. Tsuki was chewing on that bone for "fun." I may try a smaller one sometime and see if she shows more interest in it. The trainer says they need to chew.
I'll look for the treats you mentioned. Thanks again for your input!
I've not tried Bravo, but I heard great things about them! And Stella and Chewy's line.
Have you considered raw green tripe? My dogs would die before giving up that crap!I think greentripe.com is on the west coast and hare-today.com is on the east coast, whichever you are located.
Also, yahoo groups has a lot of raw feeding co-ops set up to get bulk meat/bone/organ cheap by group ordering.
http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#co-ops
We've been feeding raw for over a year now, so if you need anything else, just let me know! Have fun!
p.p.s. I have a lot of sources listed in my blog posts below when we were starting to dive into prey model/BARF raw and not so much premade (though, I still buy bags of nature's variety when I get BOGO coupons - check out naturesvariety.com/tryit )
http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/diets-raw-diet-basics-part-1.html
http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/beginning-raw.html
http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/raw-success.html
http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2008/07/raw-update-with-picsvideos.html
and check out Dogster's Raw Forum! Lots of great info there!
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet
If you are feeding premade raw (Bravo, Nature's Variety) they are formulated to be complete.
From Nature's Variety website:
Is your raw food complete and balanced?
"Yes, our Nature's Variety Raw Frozen Diets provide complete and balanced nutrition for dogs and cats, all life stages and all breeds. In fact, we are the first and only raw frozen diets that have been scientifically substantiated as complete and balanced for all canine life stages through AAFCO Protocol Feeding Trial. We are currently in the process of passing AAFCO Feeding Trials for all feline life stages as well!"
From Stella & Chewy's:
"Our diets provide 100% complete and balanced nutrition for your pet, fully meeting the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all Life Stages."
From Bravo!:
"Bravo Balance® meets AAFCD standards for a 100% complete and balanced nutrition at all life stages."
If you are feeding any of those, you can take their word for it. Other companies, like Primal, do not make complete claims.
Or you can do what I did.. read the individual ingredient lists, their nutritional info [vitamin/mineral/etc] and compare them to this spreadsheet:
http://www.netrophic.com/misc/NewPersonalDogFeedingGuide.xls
That spreadsheet lists all the nutrients a canine needs from their diet - you just find the values either on the premade raw maker's sites, or nutritiondata.com, plug in your values and there you go - guidelines for a balanced raw diet.
Maybe find out any nutritional/digestive properties of verbena to try to find out what (if anything ) is lacking. Are you sure she's eating and digesting the verbena?
I don't really supplement in the form of tablets given, but I do give them raw green tripe (amino acids, digestion health), chicken feet (joint health), fish heads, rabbit ears, fish oil caps and if I cook for them (like the eggs for breakfast thing) I'll add Solid Gold Seameal and yogurt (or cottage cheese) to it.
It might also be worth your while to see if you can find a holistic vet that practices in your area, to help make sure you have a balanced diet for your pups.
I am confused w/ some of the conflicting info I've heard. Taro's trainer says dogs are carnivores and DO NOT need anything other than meat and bone and organs occasionally. So far,I've been feeding Tsuki Bravo raw, beef, buffalo, rabbit, & lamb as well as raw chicken necks (she prefers hers ground up though). That's it, just the meat eater's diet.
I liked what I read about the Bravo balance, but she does not like it b/c it have fruits and veggies and "dogs/wolves in the wild were never accused of getting into farmer Joe's vegetable garden, only his hen house."
I'll look more at the properties of verbena as you suggested, good idea. I have a great Natual pet food store, but will look into a holistic vet.
Thanks again!
Its my personal opinion that dogs are not wolves, distant decedents yes, but wolves they are not. Neither are they wild african hunting dogs or foxes or tigers or coyotes or lions or jackals... It is my personal opinion that the dogs we have now are probably closer related to village dogs - domesticated scavengers. If you think about a shikoku, from Japan, living amongst villagers, bred to be hunters along side human hunters... what would they probably eat? Rice, fish, grass, seaweed...
I've seen wolves eat berries and I've seen coyotes survive in garbage dumps. Wolves also eat the entrails of their kill, which is why tripe is such a popular thing to feed with raw - you are essentially feeding digested greens that a cow had eaten, which are then easier for the dog to digest and utilize. I think thats why Natures Variety and all other balanced raw diets are so great, the encompass what you would find an opportunistic carnivore eating.
IMO, I would classify a modern domestic canine as an opportunistic carnivore. Of course they would prefer juicy rabbit over a rice cake, but if all they could find was that rice cake, they would eat it. And be able to derive limited nutrients from it. Their digestive track was designed to accommodate meat, but also pre-digested (or steamed) vegetation. Their teeth are design to rip and tear, but they also have teeth that can mash and chew if needed.
You just have to know your individual dogs - what do they thrive on? What do they enjoy? You are their caregiver, its ultimately up to you!
My Shiba girl died from liver failure at age 12 and I believe it was from inferior dog food, so I am excited to offer Tsuki and Taro something better for them. I don't ever want to have to see one ofmy dogs suffer again, especially if I can o something to prevent it!!!
You are right, I have to figure out what is best for my own dogs and what works for all of us. And it is a bit confusing, but well worth it for them! Plus, it fun for me to see them enjoying what I put in there bowl...
I think Tsuki would have enjoyed eating the tree frog if she could have gotten to it, eew!
Here's on of Taro, just for fun...
raw definitely is a learning process, because there are so many ways to incorporate different feeding styles into a raw-based diet. You'll find that everyone you talk to has their own preferred method.. try talking about homecooked to a nutritionist who is all about BARF feeding (barfworld.com), or talking about premade to a prey model feeder (rawfed.com).. but it really does come down to "know thy dog".
Its why I put so much effort into their diet, too... I do not want to loose them too young, but I also want to put life in their years. I think RAW feeding gives them so much vibrancy and total wellness.
Congrats on deciding on raw! If you have any other questions, feel free to post! We can learn about it together!!