# Heat Hachi is in heat again!Which directly effects our plans to go to the shiba meetup in Philly this weekend... Can someone explain in layman's terms what the dog's heat cycle is and how frequent is healthy for an 18lb dog?!? Can it be stress induced (her heat 2 1/2 months ago maybe and this one is the… ## Thread In Health · started by tsukitsune · 70 replies - **Category:** [Health](https://nihonken.org/community/c/health) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-07T20:56:53.000Z Hachi is in heat again!Which directly effects our plans to go to the shiba meetup in Philly this weekend... Can someone explain in layman's terms what the dog's heat cycle is and how frequent is healthy for an 18lb dog?!? Can it be stress induced (her heat 2 1/2 months ago maybe and this one is the real deal?) Because she had it when we got her, it stopped after about a week, then around June 20 she started for a week. And now today... ## baanton · 2008-08-07T22:03:06.000Z Well, sounds like there might be something abnormal going on with Hachi if both instances were truly a "heat cycle". Below is a quote from another source, but several vets and experienced dog breeders also told me the same thing when we were "surprised" with Josephine's heat cycle. If Hachi was truly in heat you got her, then I would say she should not have a cycle again. I understand that if the cycle is different for a dog, it ordinarily would be longer in between cycles, not shorter. Check with a vet? "Unspayed, most dogs have their estrus, or heat cycles twice a year. You should consider your pet to be "in season" for 21 days: 7 days coming into heat, 7 days in heat, 7 days going out. Though conception is most likely during the middle 7 days, Mother Nature doesn't always follow the rules. Confine your dog for the entire 3 weeks." ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-08-07T23:49:37.000Z Have her checked out. We thought Piglet was having another hear and it was hemorrhagic cysts in her uterus. Obviously she is spayed now ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-08-08T03:06:37.000Z Yes it can be stress induced, but that sounds odd - I agree with the others, get her checked out. Hope all is ok. ---- ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-08T10:50:30.000Z she was due to be spayed on Aug 13 because we had to reschedule from the June 24th start of her split heat - thats what the vet said that it was then. We're taking her to the vet today. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-12T11:40:49.000Z So Hachi's sonogram results came back today while we were there for her pre-spay bloodwork. It seems she is NOT in heat again per the sonogram BUT they do believe she was definitely bred, or attempted to be bred within 9-12 months ago at least and probably did not go full term. *She will supposedly be 2 in october. Her bleeding is sparse and now believed to be abnormal so we are going ahead with her spay tomorrow. All I can say is... although we've had a really tough time so far with her, and our rug has seen better days before her, I'm just glad she is with us now, safe and sound, on the road to much better days. ## brandon_w (admin) · 2008-08-12T11:52:03.000Z Good luck with the surgery. ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-08-12T12:12:53.000Z Sounds like a similar situation to what we went through when we brought Piglet home. I can only hope that Hachi recovers as well as Piggy did. Good luck. ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-08-12T13:18:56.000Z Man that makes me mad - she was bred at like 12 months? Jeez. I'm glad you guys have her and can take care of her. Keep us posted on her surgery! ---- ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-12T14:38:43.000Z It makes me mad beyond belief... but there is nothing I can do, right??! Just take care of her now.. Is during the spay procedure a good time to microchip? Are there benefits to having them conscious for it? Its such an awfully big needle, if they'll do it while she is out, I think that would be easier for her, right? ## kekti · 2008-08-12T14:51:12.000Z well I hope ths surgery goes well, we'll be getting roxy spayed next week or so, we were going to do it this week but we're going to richmond VA to see my dad and we didn't want to have her go through surgery and then go on a long ride like that so thats why we're post poning it it til we get back. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-12T14:56:18.000Z I'm glad you decided to spay her! She will have a happier life because of it! The recovery week goes by very fast, it did for my female shiba, we had to keep her still! It was like nothing happened to her! Good luck to Roxy, too. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2008-08-12T16:49:34.000Z I held Jazz in my hands while they micro-chipped. She was fully aware and there were no problems. ## Kaddy · 2008-08-12T18:28:14.000Z I'm not sure of the reason behind it, but our vet is having us wait until Keiko is spayed to have the microchip put in... so 3 more months. For now we have tags on her, but with all the stories of dog theft, and living in a very populated area, I'm a nervous wreck when it comes to my lil peanut being outside. I'm just glad Hachi has a very loving home :o) ## tobyshiba · 2008-08-12T18:35:07.000Z Weird. The breeder added the microchip into Toby as a puppy, free of charge! They look like little grains of rice, since she showed me one. Stinks that everyone else has to microchip their doggies at a cost. :0 Hopefully Hachi will go into surgery fine, and come out a happier dog! :) I'm sure she'll feel much better after that. ## Leonberger (admin) · 2008-08-12T18:43:27.000Z Good luck for the surgery! I hope everything goes really well and that she will have a very fast recovery. Whoever had her before is a moron. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2008-08-12T18:57:47.000Z A lot of rescue places do them at a discounted rate - Jazz's cost $10 ## tobyshiba · 2008-08-12T19:02:58.000Z Well, that's good! But, I know exactly how vets are ( or, least the ones around here! ). They turn a cheap thing ... into a huge payment. They'll jack up the prices because they suck. I don't trust vets too much, but only because I have had some bad experiences w/ my last dog getting misdiagnosed, suffering for 4 or so years and she ended up having to be put down. The vets milked TONS of money out of my uneducated parents. So, yeah. Enough of that. Its good if you can find a place that does it cheap. Its a simple, easy procedure. Honestly, if the vet charges you, i'd do it somewhere else. You already have to pay enough to even get the microchip put on records, depending on who you register with. :( Toby's microchip is registered with Avid Friendchip, and i'm pretty sure it was 20-30 bucks or something to start up. ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-08-12T19:20:17.000Z Steph it is unfortunate that you had such a negative vet experience. However in defense of the reputable vets of the world (of whom there are MANY) the difference between a discounted spay/neuter and a standard is often this, many vets discount by not doing preliminary blood work. This can result in a heartworm positive (a totally treatable condition) will die on the table from complications of anesthesia. Many discounted spay/neuters also do not monitor the heart rate of the animal , they also do not send the owner home with pain meds and antibiotics. Another thing to be aware of is that places that discount do so by having med students perform the surgery. No one is PRACTICING on my baby. I will never bargain shop my dogs health. Instead I do the research on the veterinarian and their education and track records. With access to the internet nowadays, there is no excuse to settle for inadequate care. Himiko is getting spayed on Tuesday, I could do it for $60 (I would sacrifice having preliminary blood work, and anesthesiologist, electronic monitoring of respiratory and heart rates, as well as a veterinarian performing the surgery, not to mention pain meds, and antibiotics). Sorry I will pay the $400. Piglet just had to have a new ACL installed in her leg. I could have had it done for $1500 by a visiting orthopedic surgeon and have her sent home to me the same day. Instead I had it performed by the leading orthopedic veterinarian in the region with 20+ years of experience. She had constant supervision. The vet requires she stay 48 hours so he could observe her initial recovery and insure her safety during that crucial time. I have received 2 follow up calls and I only brought her home on Sunday. It was well worth the $3000.00. This all being said knowing that I will likely have to have the surgery performed on her other knee eventually. Take the time to research and don't bargain hunt for your animal. Go cheap on flip flips not health care. ## tobyshiba · 2008-08-12T19:27:54.000Z I wasn't ... talking about spaying/neutering. I was talking about the Microchip. I did get Toby neutered at a low cost clinic, but I knew the vet personally, because I worked at the store there and I also saw them do procedures there, while I was down there. I received pain meds, and an e-collar. I don't bargain hunt for my animal, either. ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-08-12T19:33:40.000Z Microchips on average cost $40 unless you do it in August at the SPCA then it is heavily discounted. Alot of vets like to do it under anesthesia because it is a larger gauge needle and while it can be done while the animal is awake it is still pretty traumatic. ## StaticNfuzz · 2008-08-12T20:20:53.000Z Poor Hachi ….I hope the spay goes well. She actually may behave differently once she feels better and no longer retaining. Just thinking.....You know, Secondary infection may be the reason for Hachi’s digestion/bowel problems also. If she was retaining the embryonic debris she probably has been fighting with her immune system for sometime trying to remain healthy. It is a miracle she did not become very ill once she reabsorbed the placentas. Given that she was from a mill environment I suspect that she probably tests positive for CHV1 (see description below). Millers often give up “non breeders” not knowing the underlying cause of the “infertility”. Millers generally do not wish to expend $$ getting medicals done on breeding dogs and ultimately they have problems with sudden pup deaths or abnormally tiny dogs on a revolving basis. In many cases you will see millers move out/churn dogs semi annually given that many of the females have pyometra as well, since they deliver so many pups without break or are living in filthy conditions. Basically it is too much on the dog's body immunity and hormone levels. Snf ___ About CHV: The unborn puppy: CHV attacks the placenta of the mother, starving the fetus of nutrients. This can lead to abortion, stillbirth, or reabsorption of the fetus (seen by the breeder as infertility). The adult dog: CHV can cause painful lesions on the genitals. In the bitch, there may not be any external signs, but the bitch seems infertile or gives birth to undersize and weak litters. Careful examination may sometimes reveal small blister-like lesions on the vaginal wall. In both males and female. CHV is also known to be related to kennel cough. Ref: - Merick Vet Manual, eighth ed. - http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/herpis chv-1.htm - http://www.acvs.org/AnimalOwners/HealthConditions/SmallAnimalTopics/PyometrainDogsCats/ ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-12T20:59:11.000Z I really trust our vet's office, they have 4 vets (one is a cat specialist, one a dog spec., 2 are surgeons). I've used them for the last 4 years and had nothing but great things to say about them. we actually travel 45 mins to get to them when there is a vet clinic right down the road. We had to use this clinic as an emergency twice and each time was awful, just awful. they tried to really rip us off, it was obvious. But I don't mind paying extra for my vet to speuter or microchip, because I trust them. A trustworthy vet is a worth while investment! And they work with me with rescues and give samples or discounts where they can. They don't agree with raw, but I don't need them to. I trust them for medical issues whole heartedly though. snf! I'm glad you popped by this last time! Thank you for the information. Knowing what I know now about the 'breeder' that she came from, I would imagine what you assume to be true, very very true. In fact, they (the 'breeder') claimed she did get sick when she was around a year old and thats why they held onto her longer until she was healthy again. And that coincides with the sonogram results and we're actually having them do the spay as planned with an added vaginal scope while she is out to check for lesions, etc. Her white blood cell (?) count is normal so thankfully it doesn't seem as though there are any infections plauging her. I'm cleaning up that woman's mess... all for the love of money. Its sick. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-14T17:22:54.000Z well Hachi had a slight complication on wednesday during the spay, they kept her an extra day to make sure all is well. We are going in for a consultation with the surgeon and vet tomorrow when we pick her up in the AM to talk about the complication thoroughly and treatment but it wasn't something they did, it was a pre-existing condition from attempting to breed her so young. I might talk more about it at length tomorrow, or at some point on the blog.. I'm just ... I don't even really know a word for it ... losing faith in humanity in a society of instant gratification that never thinks about the future... is there a word for that? Whatever it is, its really depressing to feel. ## sunyata · 2008-08-14T18:03:34.000Z Aww. I am so sorry about Hachi's complications. I am sure with your care and love (and Tsuki and Kitsune's) that she will make a full recovery and be happy and healthy! Let us know how she is doing! ## _dlroberts · 2008-08-14T19:19:25.000Z I believe the word you are looking for is "disheartened". :-( I'm sorry to hear about the complication. It sounds awful, but I know you and John are the ones to get her through this. Please keep us posted. ## Leonberger (admin) · 2008-08-14T19:25:53.000Z Sorry to read about Hachi. I hope it won't take long to recover from it. Keep up the good work you guy shave been doing with her. ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-08-15T00:12:26.000Z I hope she is ok, she deserves better. We will have you guys in our thoughts. ---- ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2008-08-15T01:30:43.000Z I'm sorry to here about this Jen! I hope everything works out for the better. <3 The world is a sick place, & it really sucks when good people have to pay.~ ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-08-15T13:15:56.000Z Hachi is home, safe and sound. Her condition is stable and treatable. The surgeon was amazing and the vet helped us comprehend a lot of what probably went on in her previous life and what it means to us with her diagnosis. Hachi had a vaginal tumor and a medium grade bacterial infection from embryonic particles left in her system. All is well in the tumor department, they are sending it for biopsy but do not believe it to be cancerous. We are treating her infection with meds so she is on the mend! And she isn't really fussing with her incision which means not having to wear a cone and that is great thing. :) She was very happy to see us though, even John! (maybe its the pain meds :), which was reassuring once she realized who we were. Tsuki and Kitsu are being really awesome with her, they were instantly excited to see her but within a few minutes of being home are being much more low key than normal and just chilling near where Hachi is sleeping. And now she is microchipped! All good. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)