# A new era in my dog training experience http://www.naturaldogblog.com/ That's Neil Sattin's blog about Natural Dog Training, "which means that I believe our dogs are at their happiest when we satisfy their deepest innate desire: to make prey. Natural Dog Training uses a dogs emotional awareness of the world and their prey drive to elicit… ## Thread In Behavior · started by tsukitsune · 10 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-20T13:58:53.000Z http://www.naturaldogblog.com/ That's Neil Sattin's blog about Natural Dog Training, "which means that I believe our dogs are at their happiest when we satisfy their deepest innate desire: to make prey. Natural Dog Training uses a dogs emotional awareness of the world and their prey drive to elicit obedience behaviors and solve problems like dog aggression, anxiety, fearfulness, and hyperactivity." I found it after the "tug-of-war" discussion here, about letting your dog win, which I had been doing without realizing the benefit. And I realized I had been doing a lot of things, naturally, that were a benefit to my dog without realizing it. By acting not as predator, but as prey. And now its become an even more useful to think about harnessing their (shiba) natural prey drive to build a more solid recall with them. We bought 20ft leads, and will probably buy even longer ones to get the desired solidity of recall from a distance all by using their natural desire to 'make prey'. Its all sort of refreshing to read this method of training, because while we accepted the fact that Kitsu "was the way he was", its really that traditional positive reinforcement wasn't enough or as effective, that we needed to really get to know him, find what he loves, and use his natural abilities to everyone's advantage. To teach him how to play.. to teach him how to enjoy situations, or find joy in situations.. to learn from him what makes him tick and what excites him beyond anxiety.. to see the world through his eyes. So I've called Kevin Behan, who 'trained' Neil Sattin, and we've discussed many things, most importantly how to help me to help my dog. I've started his book. I'm just so excited about this journey that I wanted to share! *Kevin's website: http://www.naturaldogtraining.com/ Has anyone had success using the "Natural Dog Training" methods? ## lindsayt · 2009-05-20T14:22:14.000Z That's so cool! Would that be like having your dog chase you in a recall situation to help make it fun? I need to check this out. ## TheWalrus · 2009-05-20T14:30:20.000Z I just glanced at some of the stuff on the site. Looks very interesting. Will have to take a closer look. Thanks for the link! ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-20T14:38:13.000Z Lindsay, check out this: http://www.naturaldogblog.com/blog/2007/08/dog-training-training-your-dog-to-come-when-called-use-the-prey-instinct-and-play-hide-and-seek/ I am going to try this, though I will NOT be dropping the leash! Actually we've been doing this, smaller scale and not for anything but fun, but they'd be playing with John, I'd run and hide, then call their name to find me. They love it! ## lindsayt · 2009-05-20T15:39:35.000Z That sounds much more exciting than formal obedience. I have been teaching "watch me" commands for a while by holding food near my face, this progressed to holding it in my mouth as my hands were busy, which lead to me spitting the food at them while they catch it (I know it sounds gross, but lots of people do it, you just may not see them when the cameras are going). I also hand toss the food at them during class/competitions to keep them from getting bored, they catch it in their mouths, if they miss, they work on the "leave it". Although these are things usually done while standing still as we are being judged or waiting our turn, I am able to use their prey drives a little and work on focus exercises at the same time. It keeps them on their toes anyways. Playing hide and seek sounds really fun, you should take videos of them finding you. ## brada1878 (admin) · 2009-05-20T19:55:51.000Z I have read his book and blog for a long time now. I really like the concept of using prey drive to help with obedience training (instead of strictly food), or, more importantly, to help with attentive training. I honestly have become mildly obsessed with the concepts of "prey drive" and "defensive drive", especially given the guardian breeds we have. Basically... Prey Drive = Happy Dog Defensive Drive = Fearful Dog With Blue and his new, and surprisingly tenacious, dog aggression (toward strange dogs, not family members) we have been working on building his prey drive and reducing his defensive drive. Our hope is that when he "switches on" (and wants to throw down with another dog) we can catch him before hand and redirect him w/ some type of "prey game". This works because his defensive drive is what causes him to be aggressive toward a strange dog, and so, when this happens, if we can get him into prey drive mode he is not able to be in defensive mode at the same time - they override each other. Eventually we hope that we will have a "conditioned response" and when he sees another dog he will automatically switch to prey drive mode and look to us for a game (ignoring the other dog). In Personal Protection training it is said that the prey drive takes the dog to the fight and the defensive drive keeps them in the fight. In a balanced dog the drives should be 50/50 and you can switch the dog in and out of each, but with many guardian breeds the split is more like 25/75 where the 75% is the defensive drive. That's kinda sad because the defensive drive is pure fear. It takes a very mentally sound dog to be able to exist in defensive drive most of the time and not take it to the dark side (being aggressive toward EVERYTHING). Anyway, having experienced a dog's defensive drive at it's highest and most scary level, I have become obsessed with getting our COs and Blue into playing these "prey games" with us so that we can pull them out of their defensive modes more easily (and in a more healthy way). My hope is that will help them be more mentally healthy. That's how I stumbled onto that tug-of-war info. With Blue and his HUGE drive, and his relatively equal drive split, we have been doing a lot of research on the concepts used by PP trainers to motivate their dogs. ---- ## Mylo · 2009-05-20T22:52:39.000Z Interesting thread... Mylo and I play hide-seek-chase a lot. He loves it! When he gets hyper, I always join him, and we run around the coffee table together, and then I run away and call him. I hide behind a door or around the corner, and when he finds me I jump out like a bear and ROAAAAR! He then runs away and I chase him, and the game starts over. We both have so so so much fun with it. I was told that I should never let Mylo win at Tug-of-war because then he would feel that he was dominant. Is this true? I'll go read the tug-of-war thread and catch up... I also found Brada's post very interesting. Mylo absolutely hates other dogs. Doesn't matter what breed, age, gender or size, he'll take them on if they approach him. He never approaches them, he waits for them to come to him. I was told (upon adopting him last year) that he is this way because he was in a terribly run shelter (before being rescued) which allowed the dogs to fight. I'm currently just keeping him away from other dogs because I don't know what to do with him. I called a trainer about it and the receptionist said Mylo might not be able to be trained out of it since he's 8 years old. Any advice, since you seem to know a lot about training and Shibas? ## obuk · 2009-05-21T02:02:43.000Z Wow, I just realized that when I was looking for a 50 ft leash it directed me to the same person! Coincidence? hmmm. I knew I had seen this somewhere before it was actually posted here. I will keep reading now ;) ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-21T12:47:56.000Z For variety, not because food doesn't work, I have tried to appeal to other senses and drives instead of food while training with Sage against his dog-reactivity, and bought some wicked cool real fur tugs from www.genuinedoggear.com- a rabbit fur tug and a buffalo tug. (check it out- they classify toys by SENSE- bite, sight, smell, sound, etc...) He really digs the tugs, but finds them annoying when he is worried about the other dog he sees. "Get that out of my face, I am trying to look at the dog! The world is about to end, and you think I care about a buffalo hide? Buffalo tugs are for peacetime." After an exposure to another dog, he does take and carry the tug and play with me as his adrenalin subsides- "Tug? why yes, now youre talkin'" For fun, we play a lot of chase and chomp games. Sage loves frisbee- he can be completely unbridled in his pursuit, jump, bite, carry, death-shake of the floppy disc. We also play football- I ask him to play-bow in front of me and I put the ball on the ground and start yelling out random numbers, then I pop up, back up and tell him "Go Long!" which he sometimes does and sometimes doesn't, and I throw a holey-roller football which he can jump and really bite. When he returns it, I ask for a drop it, then offer it for "Tug!" or go back in stance for a new down. It keeps the game fresh because unlike a lab who can chase the same tennis ball obsessively for hours, Sage is interested in variety. No busy work. We also love the large AirDog donuts for prey games. I roll 'em and he will chase them hard across the yard and bite on the fly like a rabbit for a firm chomp and a squeak. Return for drop it and tug or another roll. He loves these in the yard but they are not practical for preempting a reaction on a walk. ## brandon_w (admin) · 2009-05-21T14:28:16.000Z All I have read is the article about playing tug. It seems very interesting, possibly something Nemo would like. He hasn't ever been really into tug, but maybe I could teach him to be. Seems like a fun way to get his energy out. Will be reading more on the site. ## lindsayt · 2009-05-21T15:48:11.000Z For more active sessions that push the dogs more (when I take Ike into stores or Beebe sees strangers comming into the clinic), I have been using the laser light cat toy to keep their focus on me. When they are done with the task, they chase the laser pen. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)