# Met with a new behaviorist for Ninja

I had done some more research on finding another behaviorist. Frank is good and all, but I just don't really agree with all his techniques...and he just doesn't have enough training tools to show us how to handle things hands on. So I found this lady...she owns 2 doggie daycares in my county and on…

## Thread
In Behavior · started by Romi · 15 replies
- **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior)
- **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/)

## Romi (admin) · 2008-09-17T17:56:08.000Z
I had done some more research on finding another behaviorist. Frank is good and all, but I just don't really agree with all his techniques...and he just doesn't have enough training tools to show us how to handle things hands on. So I found this lady...she owns 2 doggie daycares in my county and one is actually in my city. I started emailing her back and forth and then we started talking on the phone. I was really impressed with her knowlege on Shiba's. Unfortunately she has worked with A LOT of shiba's with behavioral issues :(. Anyways, I made an appointment for yesterday at 1pm at her facility that is in my city. It's actually only 5 minutes away and I could walk there if I really wanted to. So I get to the facility and she is waiting in the parking lot for me. I meet and greet her and then take Ninja out of the car. She takes us inside this room...it had to be like 3000 sq ft. It was huge. This was her "training room" The whole place is 30,000 sq ft. Anyway, she tells me to go to the back corner of the room and sit down. We were first going to go over everything before starting anything with Ninja. She literally picked my brain on everything and anything. After about an hour. She then said "ok - im going to tell you what I think of Ninja now" so I said "ok - what should we do first?" thinking she wanted to see his reactions to certain things. But nope she said "No, no...im going to tell you what I think of him based on what he's been doing while we've been talking" so I was like..."oh, ok...i wasn't even paying attention to him!" and she said "yeah, I wasn't expecting you to...thats my job!" So this is what she thought of Ninja... "He is definately fearful and anxious. I don't think i've seem him calm down at all since you arrived. Even though he is laying down, it doesn't mean he is relaxed. Any little sound or movement makes him jump. He is a very curious dog though. Which is really good and will be helpful in re-socializing him. When we were talking about the "mat" technique, he came up to my leg and sniffed it. That is very brave for a fearful dog. But, when I leaned down to pick up these papers, he moved back and gave me a growl. So obviously he doesn't like when people reach for him or move toward him. Which is normal to see in fearful dogs. I also don't think he is aggressive towards humans. I have no doubt if he felt really threatened by a human, he would do anything to protect himself, but it doesn't seem that he is the type to just lunge and bite someone out of nowhere. Now, about your training with the other behaviorist. I don't want to put you down or make you think less of him, but I truly feel that the training techniques you used with Ninja before, has made him more fearful. Whenever the chain of his collar makes a noise, his body gets very tense. Like he is scared of the sound. So i'm going to give you a nylon martingale collar instead." So after that she decided to teach me the "touch" technique. Ninja was very hesitant with her at first. And I really LOVE the way she trains. Instead of sort of forcing Ninja to do the command, she just waited and waited until he did it himself. It took a good 15 minutes or so for him to realize "oh, if I touch, I get a yummy treat!" So then I started doing it and it was a piece of cake. Then we tried to have him do it back to her - again, hesitant, but after a minute he did it, so we clicked and treated. The one thing she told me was that I should be the one clicking and treating - never the stranger. So after another 15 minutes or so, we moved on to the next technique, which was "go to your mat". She said she was going to use her dog as an example to show me how it should look. Surprisingly, she had 2 dogs in a crate at the other side of the room. I was shocked, they were so quiet, I had no idea there were any other dogs in the room. Anyways, she lets out a male aussie puppy. Had to be like 8 months or so. So she drops the mat on the floor (she is about 30 feet away) and she says "go to your mat" and the puppy goes to it and lays on it. Click and treat. She then said "So Ninja seems a little unsure of himself, but also seems curious." I wasn't even paying attention to ninja! So she said - in the beginning, you will click and treat when he sniffs the mat, or puts a paw on the mat or gets close to the mat. Then slowly he will start to stand on the mat, sit on the mat, and lay on the mat. The point of this exercise is that we want him to go to the mat and lay down. By training him this way, he will think of the mat as a relaxing good place to be. Then she said "im going to move the mat a little closer and see if his behavior changes" she moves the mat 10 feet closer and starts doing training with her dog. No changes in Ninja. So then after a few minutes she moves the mat closer - about 6 feet away from us. Still no change in Ninja. So then she says "well, im not loving his posture, but he is looking away and licking his lips, which is a sign to my dog saying "im not a threat" - so that is really good." Then she says "now we are going to test his curiosity" She sits on the ground about 4 feet away, spreads her legs and puts her dog in between with his butt facing Ninja. Ninja started putting his nose in the air and trying to get a whiff from 4 feet away. Then slowly he starts walking up and eventually sticks his nose down there. AWESOME! She then puts her dog back in the crate and says "See, his curiousity is there, so that gives me a lot of hope that he isn't aggressive, he is just unsure and doesn't really know how to approach. But by me holding my dogs head and offering his butt to ninja, it is a less threatening approach rather than meeting face to face and having my dog sniff him at the same time." So by this time 2 hours have passed. And she says to me "well, I think this is enough work for Ninja today, I don't want to push him too much, so we will stop here. I also wanted to comment about you. (oh gosh!) I am really impressed with the way you act with Ninja. You didn't try to pet him or talk to him when he was frightened, you ignored him and waited for him to settle down before you did anything. That is really good! I don't have much to tell you because everything you're doing is great. Just keep the training consistent. I was surprised. I always think im being too tense and he knows it, but I guess im not giving off that vibe anymore! YAY FOR ME! lol. She also said "I would also really like you to bring Ninja back and let us re-socialize him in our doggie daycare." I was shocked. I was like "Are you sure???!" And she said "well, I am not going to put him in a room with off lead dogs. But I will put him in a pen in the small dog room and see how he reacts with the other dogs through the pen. If it's negative, I will immediately take him out of the situation and call you to try to figure out a better way." I was really shocked that she offered to help me re-socialize him at her facility. That was really nice of her and it's awesome that she is willing to work with him on it as well. She said "if he does well in the pen, we will start introducing dogs to him on lead and then go on from there." She doesn't think he is aggressive, but she does think he is guarded and unsure. So it will take a lot of time and consistency. But overall - I learned so much and I really like the way she does things and how she is so patient with Ninja. We only got to "touch" and "go to your mat" so she gave me some pamphlets on "look at that" and "relaxation protocol" as well as how to use the our pen with the exercises, etc, etc. We have to re-teach Ninja the "down" command because the way we taught him was by luring - so he only knows the hand motion, but not the word. So that is what we're starting with first. I will keep you guys updated...CROSS YOUR FINGERS!

## Romi (admin) · 2008-09-17T18:00:49.000Z
Oh - Also got Ninja's testing back from Hemopet. Dr. Dodds wrote this note: Thyroid levels and rest of panel are normal, despite hair loss and behaviorial issues. Thyroid levels are good, recommend annual retesting. - So thats good news. Ninja did just start blowing. So maybe like Jen said...its just a sign that he's about to blow his coat.

## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2008-09-17T18:09:12.000Z
That sounds like it went very well. Glad to hear the thyroid is fine.

## tobyshiba · 2008-09-17T18:28:30.000Z
Oh wow, sounds like that trainer really knew what they were talking about. :) I hope Ninja finds the correct training he needs, seems like hes responding well so far. Good job finding a good trainer! :) Has the hair on his legs been thinning, too? That started happening to Toby and he started blowing his coat almost a month ago.

## _dlroberts · 2008-09-17T18:32:45.000Z
Wow Romi, that's fantastic! :-) From how you've described her, I would be very impressed too. The fact that she could engage you in a long conversation and still keep an eye on Ninja at the same time is awesome. I sometimes feel bad when I meet people on the street and completely ignore them while working to keep Joey's excitement under control. While I know women are supposedly much better at multi-tasking, I would still take it as a sign of her experience. That isn't a skill developed overnight. I'm really glad you decided to move on from Frank. It is sometimes very hard to acknowledge that despite our best efforts, a decision we made earlier is not working out as we had hoped. Kudos to you. And Kudos to Ninja for doing so well. Keep us updated on future visits and your progress at home with the clicker.

## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-09-17T18:36:35.000Z
That behaviorist sounds awesome, and reassuring which is great! Go Ninja!! We're searching for another behaviorist, with no luck, but still searching. I hope we find one like her!

## sunyata · 2008-09-17T18:36:59.000Z
Wow. Sounds like you found an awesome behaviourist. I hope that she is able to help Ninja. And I am glad Ninja does not have a thyroid issue! Hopefully it is just the blowing of the coat. :)

## Leonberger (admin) · 2008-09-17T19:21:12.000Z
The new behaviourist sounds good and promising. Before you know it, Ninja will get his confidence to good shape.

## Romi (admin) · 2008-09-17T19:50:58.000Z
Thanks guys! I am really stoked! She is so informative and just knows her shit! I REALLY like her. She has already emailed me just to follow up and send me more information. She even asked me to take video of some training sessions for her to look over just to make sure we're doing everything correctly at home. She seems like she really wants to be a part of the training process and know everything that is going on. We might schedule the socialization thing next week or the following week. They have camera's in there too so I will be able to watch online!

## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-09-17T20:53:37.000Z
Sounds great Romi! Your experience with her sounds very similar to our recent meeting with Dani, our behaviorist. sounds like they may have read the same material. lol This behaviorist sounds perfect, her methods are positive and focused on having the dog learn. THAT is the way it should be - not that Cesar Milan bull shit. I think this is what Ninja needs - I'm so happy for you guys. Hats off to you for finding her, and for getting a "A" from her on your behavior :o) Also, the mat training thing is what Jen is doing with Lani now, it has really seemed to help - its pretty amazing. ----

## Romi (admin) · 2008-09-17T21:14:37.000Z
Actually, I think you are right! She recommended me the same books! hahaa. And I remembered what you posted and I was like wow, it's really similiar. Yeah, the mat thing is amazing! Watching her do some examples with her dog...I was blown away! You should take some video of Lani doing it and show me how its done :) haha .

## sujewel · 2008-09-17T21:32:10.000Z
She sounds fantastic!!! So glad Ninja is doing well.

## MommyofNiko · 2008-09-17T21:43:29.000Z
That is awesome Romi! Congrats!

## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-09-17T21:59:01.000Z
She sounds fabulous. I wish I could be a fly on the wall for that training session. It sounded fascinating.

## Sangmort (moderator) · 2008-09-18T04:17:07.000Z
I'm so happy for both of you guys! :D~

## brandon_w (admin) · 2008-09-18T10:57:05.000Z
This behavorist really does sound great.

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