# High Protein = Aggressive Behavior? Can we have a behavior/food category? Because that's where this belongs! I have a project - to find out if higher protein in dog foods lends itself to a higher incidence in territorial aggressive tendencies. Specifically - if the analysis of dog food protein percentage is greater than 20%, do you h… ## Thread In Behavior · started by tsukitsune · 22 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-15T15:13:51.000Z Can we have a behavior/food category? Because that's where this belongs! I have a project - to find out if higher protein in dog foods lends itself to a higher incidence in territorial aggressive tendencies. Specifically - if the analysis of dog food protein percentage is greater than 20%, do you have a more aggressive dog. Honestly, I'd never heard of this until I started my foodie blog and someone told me that is what their BEHAVIORIST told them was part of the problem with their shiba inu's territorial aggression. So now I'm starting some research. I'm going to be emailing all the professionals I can think of that may or may not have heard of this. Have you? Is there any basis to the claim? ## sunyata · 2009-05-15T15:25:39.000Z I switched Bella and Nola to Solid Gold's Barking at the Moon in August of last year. It has a high protein content (41%, I believe), yet I have noticed no change what-so-ever in their behaviours. I did however notice loads of health benefits by taking them off grain-inclusive food. It may just be me, but I think it is a load of BS. Changing a diet in this manner should not cause behavioural differences such as aggressiveness or territorialness. (is that a word?) ## tobyshiba · 2009-05-15T15:30:50.000Z I think it was really just a behaviourist trying to cover their ass because they know nothing about Shiba. :) Seriously? High protein = territorial aggression? I switched Toby to Orijen and he has never shown any territorial aggression. The only thing close to aggression is growling when some ignorant dog gets in his face. >>; ## Calia · 2009-05-15T15:32:29.000Z Maybe someone might misinterpret a change in energy levels as aggression. If you take a dog with a crappy diet and switch it to something good, they will feel more energized than before. With this new found energy, they may become more playful and active, the owners being unprepared for this change. Now with all this new pent up energy, the dog may get mouthy and physically playful, causing the owners to possibly think they are being aggressive. ## tobyshiba · 2009-05-15T15:34:22.000Z Now that actually makes more sense. :) Though, if the dog gets more mouthy and playful with new energy, the owners are at fault for not stimulating their dog enough. ## Leonberger (admin) · 2009-05-15T15:52:58.000Z I have no evidence of this, it is just a theory. Actually, it's not even a theory, it's more like relating a few facts. First, protein is handled by the kidneys, as they have to excrete it in the form of uric acid, in urine. So, theoretically, a higher level of protein will probably stress the kidneys a bit more. I don't think this is illogical. Second, kidneys, or better, supra renal glands, also metabolize protein, helping to convert protein and fat into glucose. So a higher level of protein would probably also stress the supra renal glands a bit more. Third, the supra renal glands also secrete corticosteroids, like cortisol, and they secrete adrenaline. All of these are highly influential in stressful responses, as they prepare the body for a "fight or flight" situation. And, perhaps more important here, these glands also secrete testosterone which is highly influential is aggressive responses. So, and I'm taking somewhat of a leap of faith here, It sounds possible that higher protein consumption might (and I do stress might) affect the the secretion of hormones into the blood, making a dog more reactive or aggressive. ## Calia · 2009-05-15T15:53:45.000Z Lack of stimulation can also be a factor, a bored dog will bark, chew and just be a "bad" dog. Not every dog owner understands dog language, and what we may interpret as aggression can just be playfulness or pent up energy. Now change the diet and the dog has less energy to work with, making you think it is helping to fix the problem when it probably will cause other problems. But, hey, that's just one theory...Can wait to hear what everyone else has to say ## ShikokuSpirit (moderator) · 2009-05-15T16:11:09.000Z Yeah, I hear a lot of "I don't feed my dog red meat because I don't want them to become aggressive". Red meat = high source of protein. -shrugs- I give my dogs red meat every now and then, I don't do so very often only because it gives them diarrhea if they have too much. One of the foods I feed them is high in protein, but I'm guessing red meat is more rich in protein. I should check out the percentages. Oh, there's this same problem among the private exotic cat owners, "You shouldn't feed your lion red meat! It'll make them aggressive." <--- Uh...but it's a lion -smiles-. I suppose though, if too much protein makes an animal uncomfortable...an animal may be more reactive out of discomfort. However, anything in "excess" is BAD. An animal needs a balanced nutrition. Jen, I'm interested in seeing what you find. Perhaps you shouldn't limit yourself to dogs, but research exotic cats, wolves, humans and other animals. You can get a comparison and most likely get more data on the issue. Good luck! ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-05-15T16:15:02.000Z Rui-you make a great point about kidney function and it's processes. The key to this would be to find out how much work do the kidneys have to do with the increase of protein from one food source to another. In addition, tests would need to be run to see if this truly stressed the kidneys or if this made them "run" at peak performance, thereby lowering stress. Protein levels are another good reason to rotate foods. Two of Jazz's foods have higher protein levels than the others, so we never put those two back to back. I've not noticed an aggression issue when she's on the higher protein, but I could see where someone transition from a 1-star (or lower) food could see some changes due to biological ones. ## KFontaine04 · 2009-05-15T16:33:40.000Z This is really interesting to me. We switched from Orijen 6 Fish to Evo Red Meat, but I haven't seen a change in the dogs behavior. I wonder if the behaviorist is linked with the food company or a supplier somehow and suggested it to sell more food. hmmmm. The kidney explation that Rui gave is interesting as well. I can't wait to see what you dig up! ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-15T17:03:53.000Z wow! I can't thank you all enough for lending your brains to this issue! I have emails out to three professionals, two vets (one a behavior specialist) and one canine dietitian. ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T17:31:58.000Z Dr Nicolas Dodman at Tufts did a study on protein % and three types of behavior: owner-directed aggression, territorial aggression and hyperactivity. high protein )32%) medium 25% and low protein (17%) in the end, neither owner-directed aggression nor hyperactivity were found to be affected by the protein content of diet, but Territorial aggression went down. "The decrease in aggression was almos tlinear when plotted against protein levels- less protein = less aggression...A subset of territorially aggressive dogs motivated by fear or anxiety responded particularly well." p18-20 Dodman, "The Well-Adjusted Dog", 2008 I'd try this with Sage except I havent found a food that wasn't labelled "SENIOR" that had this low a protein content and had ingredient quality I approve of...he;s only three. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-15T17:35:42.000Z One of those that I emailed was Dr. Dodman himself! I'm trying to get my hands (or at least eyes) on that study via JAVMA (2000). ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T17:57:44.000Z I live in the same town as Tufts Vet School, and as a townsperson I am allowed access to the library if I make an appt. and have some idea of what I am looking for. Do you know what issue? The study was sponsored by Pedigree dog food (they formulated the custom diets). ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-15T18:02:33.000Z You're awesome, Chrys! This is the only info I have per the abstract: http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2000.217.504?prevSearch=allfield%3A(Dodman) Pedigree sponsored... great. ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T18:35:16.000Z Yeah the Pedigree part doesn't sound so impressive, but I guess research requires funding whatever way you can get it? Not sure. Let's see what I can do- I have another (aggression) article I wanted to look up while I am at it. I'll let you know when they give me for an appt... I will be interested to know if Dodman gets back to you...In case he doesn't, I will also ask his colleague Dr Moon-Fannelli if she has anything to say about protein and aggression. She is Sage's vet behaviorist and I am still in my 6 months of follow up period, post consult. I never asked her, I was so dazzled in my appointment, and I do go on and on when it comes to talking about my dogs... ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-15T18:36:59.000Z Dr. Dodman did write back and told me to pick up a copy of his book, "The Well Adjusted Dog" and read the part about nutrition... :) ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T18:53:19.000Z Hahaahaha! that's helpful. I have it and can photo copy those pages if you want. I have a call into the library - had to leave a message, but on a gorgeous Friday afternoon I am not hopeful they will get back to me before the weekend. Maybe the other vets will be a bit more complete in their reply. ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T19:18:47.000Z I'm going to the Tufts Vet library at 9:30- am Monday morning. Will make photocopies...Now I must go see what else I might want to research while I am at it! ## Darwin67 · 2009-05-15T19:52:50.000Z Kahlo for at least six months was fed steady diet of Walmart's Ol'Roy (note, this food was part of the massive food recall (ingredient list: Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Wheat Middlings, Animal Fat[Preserved With Bha and Citric Acid], Natural Flavor, Brewers Rice, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Color Added[Red # 40, Yellow #5, Blue #2], Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide....) The day Kahlo came here, she has been fed primarily Acana Grasslands with a 33% protein level, low carb and zero grain. I supplement that with fish oil, Seameal Powder, non-grain canned food, and pumpkin. There were no behavior changes as she remains an incredibly calm confident dog. The only extreme positive changes I have noted have been in her health and coat. It will be interesting to see how this study plays out....the fact that Pedigree sponsored the study...me wonders if they aren't looking for an angle in selling their own corn based foods. ## Wryly Brindle · 2009-05-15T20:28:20.000Z To me, the study has a very small sample size- only 33 dogs. 11 of each category- so he does say that all it really means is that there may be a connection and the results show it should be studied further with more dogs. I believe the conclusion is not that high protein causes aggression in any given canine, but that in some of those who demonstrate one particular kind of aggression a lower protein diet can help. There was also a tryptophan-supplementation aspect as well in his follow up study. Dodman found in the second study (sponsored by Science Diet this time), the same conclusions re: protein as well as that tryptophan supplemented low protein diets were associated with reduced territorial aggression. He goes on to say that diet "can affect behavior, not all behaviors all the time but some behaviors some of the time." and that the findings "provide enough support for the protein theory of aggression to justify switching an aggressive dog's diet to a lower-protein one to see if the change helps. The effect, if it is going to happen, is quick- almost immediate. If the trial works, great; if it doesn't it is no big deal to switch back to the dog's regular diet" In the study the dogs were only fed the test diets for two weeks. he explains the reason for it working may be that amino acids from protein compete with amino acids like tryptophan and ones from carbs for entry into the brain, the carby ones and the tryptophan would become serotonin (mmm....serotonin! :) ) but they get overwhelmed by the proteins and fewer of them get through the door so to speak, making (ostensibly) a less blissed out pup who's touchy about his territory... that is how I read it. The protein diets had no effect on dogs with no aggression (the control group) or the hyper dogs or the "dominance-aggression" dogs. Only territorial, fear/anxiety dogs. ## brada1878 (admin) · 2009-05-16T00:07:13.000Z This is interesting stuff. I'm interested to hear what you hear from the pros you contacted. Personally, I have never observed an increase in "aggression" due to higher protein diets, but we have never fed a lower protein diet either. So I have no comparison. I think it's a good idea to define "aggression" in a study like this, as pointed out already in this thread, "aggression" could just be boredom or more energy, etc. It's hard to say I have seen more "aggression" when I have no idea what they mean by "aggression". Ya know? Dogs are usually pretty stoked about meat, it's pretty high value to them. So, it seems pretty obvious that one should expect a higher level of resource guarding (maybe even directed toward humans) when you feed your dogs a nice raw slab of meat for the first few time. I have certainly seen this - but to make the leap that higher protein = more aggression is kinda crazy, imo. Also, territorial "aggression" is a complex thing. It could be driven by a dog's prey drive or his/her defensive drive. So, one could say a dog may have a higher prey drive from being fed a raw diet (which may cause a higher level of territorial aggression), but this is assuming a dog has the ability to link a running dog (the movement would spark the prey drive) they see on the other side of a fence to a slab of meat they just ate... and dog's don't generalize like that - that connection wouldn't be made. As for defensive drive, that is fear driven. That's the real fight in a dog, because they are fighting for their lives once they are working in their defensive drive. So, if that is what the theory is pushing then it is really saying protein increases the fear level in dogs - and I don't see that happening either. ---- ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-05-16T00:45:57.000Z According to Dr. Dodman: You can access the studies on Google Scholar website. One study was funded by Pedigree and the other by Hills. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)