# Semantics in training... I found this link in another forum and thought it might be interesting for discourse. Apparently someone found it important enough to distinguish between "clicker training" and "training with a clicker". In retrospect, a lot of what I did during my obedience classes was a mix of both methods. http:… ## Thread In Behavior · started by CrimsonO2 · 15 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-03-24T13:49:02.000Z I found this link in another forum and thought it might be interesting for discourse. Apparently someone found it important enough to distinguish between "clicker training" and "training with a clicker". In retrospect, a lot of what I did during my obedience classes was a mix of both methods. http://www.clickertrain.com/articles/fisherpt2.shtml One poignant note I read was the importance and distinction of timing the reinforcement/reward and what the click signified. I'd be interested to hear from others how their training experiences were and whether it's so cut and dry as this author makes it out to be. Jesse ## Edgewood · 2009-03-24T14:57:48.000Z I tend to follow "clicker training" vs lure with a click training. Not to say that I haven't ever used a lure to help induce behavior, but I tend to do the former. ## StaticNfuzz · 2009-03-24T15:22:38.000Z I think this article simply boils down to behavior theory and determining how one wants to go about the specific training task with the clicker. It is good to understand both variations but it isn’t always necessary to pin it to one as long as you as the trainer understand what the outcome might be, or not, with either method you use for getting the behavior. Semantics aside…..Really I think it is about which is a more elegant solution to address a training a behavior or task you are trying to teach. I have used both with success. Either can be effective and sometimes one way has a few shorter steps as described in the article. However, one must understand when not to get crutched on the treat for luring low level tasks after the animal has learned the behavior asked and work toward how to expand or extend the activities to chain the behaviors together. It isn’t as simple or clear cut as categorizing oneself into at certain typology or camp as the author likes to suggest. Just my take… Snf ## obuk · 2009-03-24T15:26:36.000Z As I am new to the whole clicker concept, I must say that I have tried shaping with Mochi but it's not the easiest thing to keep it fun enough for an independent shiba! We've been getting better at it though. However, when I volunteered at a shelter last weekend, I worked with a border collie mix and he picked up on the actual clicker-training concept right away with no luring needed. I have one question about the stationary heel position... How on earth do you shape/clicker-train that?? ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-03-24T15:26:40.000Z Oh I agree with everyone, I think it merits some thought because I've never thought to click, and then reward the dog regardless of what position the dog is in (ie, teach the dog to sit, click, and then throw the treat a near distance so the dog has to get up and get it, thus "resetting" the dog). I always thought that the timing of the click was crucial and that the reward should reinforce the current behavior. It brings to mind some different concepts. Thanks, Jesse ## obuk · 2009-03-24T15:31:47.000Z I think it really depends on what type of breed/dog you are working with, how motivated that dog is, what environment you are in (sometimes there just isn't a place without any distractions), if you are a very patient person, how fast the dog is suppsod to learn a behavior fully, etc. As long as there is no violence involved and the dog still learns desired behaviors, I don't think it really matters which method you use as long as it's effective. ## StaticNfuzz · 2009-03-24T15:38:51.000Z Kay Laurence is a good trainer to check out if one is interested in a specific typology with the clicker. The videos can be a bit slow and sound a little dull but it will give you an idea. I think she works on the heel items in some of her lit and videos too. Snf ## obuk · 2009-03-25T00:16:04.000Z I looked for the videos but couldn't find any... where exactly do you see them? Thanks! ## Kaddy · 2009-03-25T04:04:38.000Z Our puppy preschool class with Keiko was 'supposed' to be a clicker training class, but after the first 2 weeks the instructor kinda dropped the ball and I've not used a clicker since. I do 'think' it would be amazingly useful, but at the time we were learning to click it was just cumbersome and awkward - treats, clicker and leash all in hands while trying to maintain control and encourage... maybe I just wasn't cut out for it ;o) ## obuk · 2009-03-25T09:23:56.000Z lol... I have the clicker tied around my wrist, the treat underneath (or in the other hand - depending on what i'm working on) and the leash on my wrist usually (or in my other hand) Now outside when i have to wear gloves if it's too cold, forget it... like i said too cold :D ## Calia · 2009-03-25T09:34:15.000Z I've got one of those leashes that clips around your waist. Having the leash tied around you opens up your hands for holding the clicker and treat. You can get away with looping the leash around a strong belt, and tie the treat pouch to a belt loop. Then you can have one hand for signaling/control and one for clicker. I thought the article was interesting on how it separates each type. ## obuk · 2009-03-25T11:12:45.000Z I didn't even know "waist-leashes" existed. I always tie my leash to my belt too but I can't hold the clicker in my hand if it's freezing cold outside... lol ## Calia · 2009-03-25T14:40:47.000Z Mine clips around my waist, but since the adjuster is breaking, if the dog pulls it gets tighter. I think that they would sell some on clicker websites as it is very useful. You can search for skijoring supplies as well, there are special belts and clips that are meant for hooking the dog up to your waist to pull you across the snow. You can easily adjust it for other uses. ## obuk · 2009-03-25T14:44:40.000Z ok, thank you I will look into that! :) ## StaticNfuzz · 2009-03-25T19:38:50.000Z I have a really old video and I don’t recall where I got it. Here is what I found for Kay that is recent. http://www.clickertraining.tv/product.html?item=KPDLVD144R She is also going to be at a seminar on April 12 http://www.learningaboutdogs.com/ http://www.clickertraining.com/node/1200 Also here is info on the Buddy system belt http://www.cleanrun.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=212&ParentCat=174 Snf ## obuk · 2009-03-25T21:40:57.000Z ohh I know who that is! LOL I've seen a bunch of videos of her on youtube when I once searched for target training. Awesome! --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)