# Reactive, but only with other males over food? I have a sort of quandary regarding Kitsune and his possible guarding issue, or reactivity level.. Last night we had a scuffle between him and Henson. It was loud and hectic but no one got a single injury. It took a while to break them up, a lot of clapping broke tension but they kept going back at… ## Thread In Behavior · started by tsukitsune · 9 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-06T14:43:51.000Z I have a sort of quandary regarding Kitsune and his possible guarding issue, or reactivity level.. Last night we had a scuffle between him and Henson. It was loud and hectic but no one got a single injury. It took a while to break them up, a lot of clapping broke tension but they kept going back at it and finally slamming a metal pan on the floor broke them off long enough to separate. Hectic. Tsuki was standing by barking, but didn't get involved. What I could figure out was that I was making stuffed shells and some cheese fell on the floor and both boys wanted it. The part that confuses me is that Henson has been with us for over a month, and recently I've started to let him hang with us more and I've been doing obedience with all three together for salmon jerky (smelly, high valued) they all sit together, get treated together, etc. When I cook, I let the three hang together and they usually take to napping in the kitchen until I share something with them. But this time it got escalated and boom! scuffle. Just like that. My quandary is that this is the second male that Kitsune has lived with and had a scuffle over food. The first I was extremely naive to the possibility of a fight, and now I know better and used all the judgment I had to make sure they were good together before letting them together for training and treats and while I cook or eat (all three lay around the table while we eat, too). He doesn't seem to have any other issues with male dogs, meeting them a the dog park, rough housing and playing... meeting on walks, etc. Is it possible that he has an issue with adult males over food? He's had one scuffle with Tsuki, very very early on when we adopted him over a raw bone, but that has been it. They eat their raw in the same room together twice a day every day, eat bones together, etc. No issues. And I know Tsuki has it in her, she had an argument (up on back feet, boxing and snarking) with Henson over a toy and has lots of arguments with the female Cairn we sit sometimes over random stuff like space or beds or whatever. I guess as a preventative measure, maybe having future male fosters will have to be put on hold, or more training in place if/when that happens... Any thoughts? ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-04-06T15:03:31.000Z I'm just curious? In your training of the 3 together, who gets rewarded first? Is it always the same dog or does it vary? Jesse ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-06T15:04:08.000Z It varies. ## Leonberger (admin) · 2009-04-06T15:31:55.000Z Both boys wanted that cheese and none of them was willing to let it go. Henson has been with you for a while, but for a big part of that time, he's been isolated right? (because of the heartworm and all that) They're probably still trying to evaluate each other and know their bearings. He eats everything with Tsuki, but they have been living together 24/7 for a long time and they settled their hierarchy over stuff. It seems that Tsuki won't get into it over food, but will over toys, right? About Kitsune guarding/being reactive with food, I guess that's what he values the most. Is it with all food? For example, Kuma will let Nyx steal kibble and water from under him (literally) but he will not stand having her half a meter away when he's chewing on a dental cleaning chew or eating cooked food. I mean, I even had to make him see me as the provider of that cooked food to make him OK with me being around. Just my two cents. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-06T16:09:09.000Z Tsuki's getting into it isn't really into it, more or less putting on a loud argumentative strike. She's never involved in scuffles like the ones Kitsune has had. Kitsune doesn't seem to value non fresh treats (like the biscuit-type or kibble) or bones (non raw) but values raw and cheese I guess. Kitsune will let us take those things away, though. Even Tsuki can take whatever she wants from him, as can Eva and Hachi was able to. Just not other males, I guess. And this is me assuming Kitsune either started or didn't back down, only because of his prior incident with the former male foster shiba.. it could have been Henson. He was really possessive at first, of me of his bones of his food. I couldn't take anything from him until we worked with 'leave it', 'take it'. I doubt any other dog could take something from him that he valued. And for the most part, yes, he is isolated from them unless I'm there to watch. ## _dlroberts · 2009-04-06T16:11:44.000Z I agree with Rui. Caution on your part is good. But I wouldn't be too quick to raise your concern level just yet. That's not to say you shouldn't take incidents like this one seriously. Just remember that dogs compete over limited resources. Getting a piece of cheese that fell on the floor is substantively different from the dog's perspective than training them together. When training, they know you have a large supply of treats and you hand them out roughly equally. Imagine now that you only had one treat during training and rather than hand it out, you threw it on the floor and allowed them to determine who gets it. Boom. Argument ensues every time. As it will when a single piece of cheese falls on the floor. My suggestion for training would be to enforce a healthy boundary. Have all of the dogs keep their distance (I use approximately a six foot boundary) when you are preparing food. They can do whatever they like in the kitchen as long as it falls outside the boundary. When they are good and remain relaxed or distracted outside the boundary, they get treats. If they come into my area, I stop what I'm doing and redirect them back outside of it. I started doing this less due to resource competition and more because I couldn't take the chance of Lucy getting something that fell on the floor when I was cooking. But, it has had the desired effect on resources too. If I drop something while cooking or preparing food for the pups and it rolls right in front of Lucy, she won't touch it until I release her to do so. For her health, that is vitally important. She needs to see all food as mine first and only hers once I say she can have it. I would be willing to bet that similar training for Kitsu and your male fosters will do the trick. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-06T16:19:15.000Z Thanks for the input! Its tough, when you realize what you didn't do after the fact. I think the boundary training is probably the most effective preventative now, I've seen Victoria Stillwell do it on her show, I have an idea about how to do it. I will start tonight! Thanks!!! ## brada1878 (admin) · 2009-04-06T17:56:05.000Z Didn't it take about this long for issues to start appearing with Kitsune and the other male Shiba (sorry, I'm having a hard time remembering his name)? I think Rui and Dave's comments are good. I would follow their advice too, if I were you. I have not had a dog that was that reactive/guarding over food, so my advice is limited. Luytiy is very serious about his food, when he is in his crate while Jen is preparing their food (because having him out would be a disaster), he will not even let Kona come in the house - he is that serious and that loud/intimidating from his crate when it comes to food. Luytiy only does this toward Kona and Kahuna. Masha will guard the food cart too when Jen is preparing food. She, Ahi, Fuji, Loa, and Lani will guard the cart and get into it if we don't crate them ahead of time. My point is, maybe it's a sex thing. Females compete with female, and males compete with males. I haven't given it much thought, but I do see a little bit of a pattern there. ---- ## _dlroberts · 2009-04-06T18:12:20.000Z I can add an additional point to the sex thing. Lucy is generally excited but restrained during food prep time. When we have other male dogs in the house their attitude during food prep doesn't phase her at all; however, if we have another female in the house, Lucy gets *really* uptight. When Thea visits, Lucy will correct her for even entering the kitchen when I'm preparing their food. When I keep them separate and in down-stays so I can work, Lucy actually sits there with her whole body shaking. So, the moral of the story....it seems that dogs of the same sex are more likely to increase their frustration/anxiety/reactiveness around each other. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-06T18:15:30.000Z I definitely see that pattern as well, and I was more guarded the first few weeks, but there were no incidents. However, like Dave said - it just was that one piece of cheese that made this an issue. And only between the males. I think if it were Tsuki and Kitsu, Tsuki would have either gotten it, or not cared and allowed kitsu to get it. No issue between them. I do think there is merit to the same-sex frustration/anxiety theory, definitely. Thanks! p.s. that former foster pup was named Kobe when we had him, now Yoshi I believe. It took less than a week with them.. I think about 4-5 days. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)