# sizing of prong collar So, let me start out by saying I personally don't use a prong collar on my dogs. However, I have the good luck to be dog sitting for a 90 pound greater swiss mountain dog this week who's parents have only trained her to walk on a prong collar. She has a flat collar, but pulls relentlessly when that… ## Thread In Behavior · started by _dlroberts · 12 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## _dlroberts · 2008-09-30T00:32:43.000Z So, let me start out by saying I personally don't use a prong collar on my dogs. However, I have the good luck to be dog sitting for a 90 pound greater swiss mountain dog this week who's parents have only trained her to walk on a prong collar. She has a flat collar, but pulls relentlessly when that is attached to the leash and I'm really worried she will break the plastic buckle. Thus, I've been walking her on the prong collar. Here's my question. I think its too tight on her. I've mentioned it to her parent's before but they haven't done anything about it. It is so tight the collar doesn't even rotate around her neck without significant effort from me to maneuver her skin out of the way. It almost never rotates under normal use. Its so tight, that it applies pressure even when the leash is slack. I've read conflicting information on the web about how to fit prong collars. Some say it should be very snug and other say you should be able to fit 1/2 a finger between the prong and the skin. Does anyone have any experience fitting a prong collar properly? Since her parents don't seem to want to remedy the situation, I'm almost to the point of just going out and buying an extra link or two and not telling them about it. ## Romi (admin) · 2008-09-30T03:02:20.000Z I would say it should be the same size as fitting nylon collar. If they are loose leash walking, it should be fine, but once they start to pull, it should tighten up and then once they stop, loose up again. I don't think it should be too snug. I dont' think that would be a comfortable walk. I think Jess mentioned that she used a prong collar on piglet sometimes. I'm sure she can give more info. ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2008-09-30T03:37:30.000Z This link might help Dave. It has pictures too :) ~ ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2008-09-30T03:40:46.000Z & a sizing guide from Here. toy breeds under 25 lbs. - Lightweight (small or micro) 14" small breeds between 25 and 50 lbs. - Medium weight (medium) 18" Medium breeds between 50 lbs and 75 lbs. - Heavy weight (large) 20" Large & giant breeds over 75 lbs. - X-Heavy weight (x-large) 22" Don't know how much help this is :( ~ ## lindsayt · 2008-09-30T08:09:20.000Z Like with a leash pop, the idea is you are giving a quick correction for an unwanted behavior and the rest of the time the leash or collor should be loose or not very noticable to the dog so they are not getting false corrections. (This is part of the reason I don't really like prong collars for most dogs). When the collar is always correcting the dog by pinching, the dog never learns not to pull and becomes used to the tight pinched feeling on it's neck. Adding some extra links would make the pinch collar fit more correctly and allow you to give a true quick pop to correct the pulling along with a quick turn in the opposite direction. However, the dog may be so used to that constant pinch feeling you may have a really hard time getting it to understand that feeling is actually a correction and not a reward, so good luck. ## _dlroberts · 2008-09-30T12:16:49.000Z Thanks guys! Osy, I found that site too. It seems useful, but the pictures don't really give a good idea of how tight it actually is. Lindsay: You make an excellent point. I suspect Thea is past the point of no return on using the prong collar for teaching. I just want to make things a little more comfortable for her. Extra prongs can't be more than a few bucks right? I thin I'll probably just add one and not say anything to her parents. :-/ ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-09-30T13:39:29.000Z Extra links are cheap. Sucks you don't live closer, I have a bunch from a collar I won't use and I would just give them to you. ## kwyld · 2008-09-30T13:47:11.000Z Prong collars are supposed to fit very snug, to the point where you shouldn't be able to put fingers in between the prongs and the skin, it should not be able to move around the dogs neck like a normal collar. They have it placed on the dog correctly, if it is too loose it doesn't work properly. I learned how to properly place them on a dog during Schutzhund classes. Corina would be another person to ask as well. ## kwyld · 2008-09-30T13:53:29.000Z Prongs are supposed to work like this. You need to get the dog's attention with food and keep it right next to you in the heel position, preferably keeping your hand at your hip or slightly above if it's a taller dog. String cheese or hotdogs are good. The dog should be walking next to you looking up the whole time while you are constantly feeding it small pieces off the end of the hotdog or string cheese. The dog should be on a LOOSE leash during this, not constant pressure. If the dog walks ahead of you and stops paying attention, you use the small "pop" to bring it back next to you and lure with food back into the heeling position. There technically should not be any pressure on that leash down to the prong unless you are using the "pop" to reposition the dog. Walking a dog down the street with a prong collar is probably not the best idea, using a Gentle Leader head halter or one of those new Premier No-Pull Harnesses would be a smarter idea for them. You should tell them to use one of those instead. If the dog doesn't walk next to you in heel position with a loose leash, they didn't train it properly with the prong. ## _dlroberts · 2008-09-30T14:28:51.000Z So that's the thing, she walks great with the prong on. I even put her on a waist leash and she's 90 pounds! Its when I try to take her out on the flat collar she it becomes a problem. And I agree, a gentle leader or no pull harness would be smarter. I'll mention it to them when they get back to town. Thanks! ## WhiteGC8 · 2008-09-30T19:46:14.000Z The sizing is right. It seems cruel to use a prong, but it's the person behind the tool that'll determine the cruelty. When I first got Yoshi, he wasn't that great on a leash. He was not easily motivated by food, toys or petting and praising. His main interest was marking the neighborhood. When I checked how hydrated he was, I noticed he immediately "surrendered" and exposed his belly, so I gave the prong a try. Within five minutes, he was walking right by me with a loose leash. The pops I used were a simple flick of the wrist. It's only when his prey drive or defense (dogs or people approaching in what he sees as unacceptable) kicks in that I end up using my arm. ## sujewel · 2008-10-01T10:03:19.000Z Actually, Dave, it really depends on how she pulls. If she pulled forward at all times, a gentle leader would work better. However, if you have dogs like mine who try to (well, used to) pull left and right, a gentle leader doesn't work as well. I walk Mika on a gentle leader now, but as a pup, it was very difficult. If, however, I walk the dogs during doggie rush hour. It's a prong for both dogs. I cannot control them on a gentle leader at all. As for sizing, we can easily rotate the collar. It's really the dogs that determine the 'pop'. They walk by my side...until they sense or see another dog. Keigo is very sensitive to the prong, so he does a dance. Forward, pinch, back, comfy, forward, pinch, back, comfy. Mika is fairly unaffected by the collar. So it's after another dog regardless. However, I'm smarter...she lunges forward, so at the point where she's mid-air and has the least amount of power, I give her a pop. It turns her around and then I can control her. I know, it's awful, but I think her getting to another dog would be worse. ## TeamLaika · 2008-10-01T10:40:48.000Z Prong collars, like any other collar, are tools. Their severity and impact depends on who is on the other end. If a prong is what works, use it correctly and move on with life. They are to fit snug at the half-way point on the dog's neck (not up by the ears and not down by the chest). The chain portion should be flat, not droopy. Most dogs do well with the leash attached to both rings. (i.e. no actual tightening occurs.) Read this article from Suzanne Clothier http://www.flyingdogpress.com/prong.html --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)