# Intact dogs at dog parks I was just reading some prior posts about intact dogs causing problems at dog parks, and I was just curious about what people thought. I totally agree with bitches in season being kept away for all the obvious reasons. However, what about intact male dogs? ## Thread In Behavior · started by lindsayt · 26 replies - **Category:** [Behavior](https://nihonken.org/community/c/behavior) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## lindsayt · 2009-03-28T03:54:49.000Z I was just reading some prior posts about intact dogs causing problems at dog parks, and I was just curious about what people thought. I totally agree with bitches in season being kept away for all the obvious reasons. However, what about intact male dogs? ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2009-03-28T05:17:54.000Z It's interesting indeed. While I've no personal experiences in the matter to contribute, I will say that most of the dog parks down here in my area all do not allow Intact Male dogs [ or bitches in heat ] to enter.~ ## lindsayt · 2009-03-28T05:41:48.000Z Well, is the fact that the dog has testicles irritating to other neutered dogs and can the rest of the dogs smell the phermones/does that get them worked up? Or is it the poorly socialized intact males themselves who strut around starting fights that are not wanted? Is this a socializing issue or a neutering issue? I ask this because I often take Ike with me to dog parks (dragging a leash), and he is the benevolent type, never pushy, really quiet and doesn't really get in other dog's business. So, as he is a well socialized intact male, should it be a problem taking him to dog parks, or will dogs still sense his phermones and become lathered up because of his smell? There are just some dogs that can't get enough of his smell, they completely stop what they are doing to come smell him, even though he is just standing there with his nose in the air minding his business. Anyways, the city is harsh on responsible dog owners sometimes. Right after I got done reporting my crappy neighbors to AC about their neglected emaciated chained up dogs, I got a letter from AC telling me I should neuter Ike. I guess I just don't get it. ## Calia · 2009-03-28T09:57:45.000Z At the dog park I take my guys to they allow intact male dogs. From my experiences, it is not an intact dog that causes the problems, it's the dogs of people who don't pay attention or don't properly socialize/train their dogs. There are generally quite a few intact males in the dog park at one time and they haven't really made much of an interaction difference compared to the fixed ones. Everyone stiffs, licks, humps whether it be male/female, intact/fixed. I think it is more of a mentality thing, peoples reactions to a intact male, as many feel that an intact male is going to have all these issues (territorial, aggressive, etc) but you still get that with fixed ones as well. Personally, I like them fixed but that is mainly cause the majority of people with intact dogs either don't care if their dog fathers numerous mutts, or that the only reason they are keeping their dog intact is cause the dog(and owner) would miss having his manhood if fixed. And then there are those people who don't want to bother because they don't want to pay for it. I'm sorry, i know I'm ranting a little, but a lot of people here are stupid and irresponsible, and it could just get annoying at times. I understand why AC would request you to fix Ike. They have to deal with plenty of people who don't bother to fix their dogs and just let them procreate like crazy, so thus they feel that intact is irresponsible. Plus, unless you stated that he was intact to AC, you might have gotten some revenge reporting. ## sunyata · 2009-03-28T10:04:45.000Z I agree with Beth. While we do not have a dog park here, we do have several parks where people let their dogs interact. There has never seemed to be more of a problem with intact dogs than with altered dogs. I feel if the intact male is owned by a responsible person who has seen to their appropriate socialization and is aware of what their dog is doing all the time (like ALL dog owners should do), then it is fine that they are out in public doggy areas. As for animal control, I think you should advise someone there that Ike is a show dog and that you may plan to responsibly breed him one day. That should deter them from 'keeping an eye' on you. ## StaticNfuzz · 2009-03-28T16:07:04.000Z Like Casey and Beth, I haven't noticed a greater increase in fights for intact dogs unless there is a female in/going in/going out of heat and the clueless owners happen to bring it near or in the park. Generally, if dogs don't like each other they may be even worse if hormones are involved. Lindsay: How would they know Ike is not neutered? It sounds like your local AC is basically a bust and telling you to mind your own business ....so I guess your neighbors have a friend there. In that case I would just keep photos and if you have to mail in anonymous complaints with proof of pictures and the address then maybe that is an option. If you have anti-chaining advocates in your area maybe you can keep them posted and they can send in the complaints. That's probably the best you are going to be able to do. If the neighbors are not breaking the law as animal control sees it when they come out, your efforts are SOL. Really as sad as it sounds it all depends on how backwards the town and its municipal folks are. Snf ## tobyshiba · 2009-03-28T16:25:37.000Z There are a few dogs who are intact at the park I visit. It really depends on socialization, I think. Though, TBH, the undersocialized altered dogs are usually the ones that start the fights. Or the dogs that are cowering and don't even belong in a dog park. ## lindsayt · 2009-03-28T21:00:56.000Z Maybe it was more a coencidence as Ike's license forms had his sex listed? The timing was just really close so it sort of ticked me off. Additionally, I had yet another run in with AC at my dog park late yesterday giving me a verbal warning to have my dogs licensed (they are-I forgot their tags) and neutered. I am really glad to see them out enforcing the laws, though, even if I get yelled at (bad owner!). I lack the appropriate knowledge and experience at this time regarding the breeding of dogs, especially Shiba, so Ike is just my good buddy who is shepherding me into the crazy world of Show. Therefore, no Ike puppies in this household, but he has to be intact in order for me to get my experience in show. Good points, people need to watch their dogs at parks regardless of sex/alteration and correct any bad behavior. Probably most of the intact male dogs that cause problems are actually owned by idiots, so the dogs won't have good training either, thus the sweeping declarations forbidding all intact dogs. ## SophieMonster · 2009-03-30T12:44:44.000Z Well... when we go to the dog park, this one girl I know has a schnauzer and he is not fixed and constantly tries to mount my shiba girl and he pees on everything in the park, including the benches people sit on and the water bowl the other dogs try to drink out of. It is a bit annoying and perhaps she doesn't train him as well as she should have. There was also one day at a park where this other girl was telling me what a horrible person would buy a dog from a breeder, because she adopted her dogs yet, she took her unaltered female to a dog park and then told me she thought her dog may be pregnant but wasn't really sure... how could you not be sure, why not take the dog to the vet? I just thought it was rude of her to be bashing breeders and then not even taking responsibility of her own dog. But I do have friends that have a female dog they plan to breed and they are responsible in not bringing her to the park when she is in heat. It would just cause problems. And she is cranky when she is in that process... doggy pms. but even fixed dogs can cause problems.. one lady had several yorkies and i guess she didn't socialize them because they snapped at every dog that walked by. which is sad because I know yorkies can be great dogs i have met some really nice ones. ## brandon_w (admin) · 2009-03-30T13:06:59.000Z Most male dogs that I know (neutered) have some issues with non-neutered dogs at the park. The extra hormones they bring in seem to cause problems, even if the dog is behaving perfectly. ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2009-03-30T13:32:46.000Z Sophimonster-The girl who "adopted" her dog clearly didn't do so from a reputable adoption agency as NO reputable rescue group leaves a dog un-speutered. So it is not shocking to me that she would be spewing judgment on others. I would say that most issues at dog parks stem from irresponsible oblivious dog owners first and foremost. While the reproductive status of a dog may be a minor factor I would be hesitant to say it is the deciding factor. As usual almost every dog issue stems from crappy owners. I had my wrist broken at a dog park. By an un-neutered male chocolate lab. To this day I do not blame this dog (or his testicles). I had warned the owner of this dog just a few days prior to the incident that his dog was out of control and needed some training (he had grabbed a woman by her hair and had grabbed peoples clothes on numerous occasions). His dog should be neutered as he was way larger than standard, had health issues and was a pet store dog i.e. not breeding stock by any means. He hadn't neutered him "because it was a waste of money". But I digress. The point is, it is easy to blame the dogs, but if we pay any attention we should blame the owners. ## wliu003 · 2009-03-31T00:04:47.000Z The dog park near my school has no rule that says intact dogs are not allowed, however there are a gang on people who are always there and they were really adamant about not allowing non-neutered dogs in. It was almost like they owned the park. This was a long time ago when we brought my roommates unneutered husky there and they said that we should turn back. ## lindsayt · 2009-03-31T12:03:53.000Z Wow, a dog park militia. Jessica, I have to agree that it is mostly the owners not being trained in good dog park etiquitte overall, who make the most trouble. Case in point, I went to the dog park on Sunday, and it was two neutered boys taking turns aggressively trying to mount each other and Ike with no intervention (Ike's ear got violated)-so we had to go home, and wash Ike's ear. Dog park Sundays are just crazy. ## Calia · 2009-03-31T12:07:55.000Z I wonder what kind of conversation there would be between the 'militia' and a guy who decided to get implants for his dog after fixing it. "No, these aren't real I just wanted to him to still feel like a man" ## SophieMonster · 2009-04-01T13:45:06.000Z haha. wow. never really thought of doing implants/plastic surgery on dogs. I wonder, can they do a vasectomy on male dogs or do all vets just stick to the traditional method? ## KFontaine04 · 2009-04-01T13:46:31.000Z There are canine vasectomy, but I have heard they are not 100% sucessful all the time. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-01T13:51:25.000Z NEUTICLES! I totally blogged about those doggy implants! http://shibainuspirit.blogspot.com/2009/03/try-not-to-laugh.html ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-04-01T14:34:56.000Z I've heard old wives tail of false nuts being used on show dogs who's other nut didn't fully drop.... Jesse ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2009-04-01T15:03:03.000Z well... its a creative solution.. i guess. ## KFontaine04 · 2009-04-01T15:22:27.000Z FALSE NUTS! LOL... ROTFLMAO ## animatorshiba · 2009-04-01T15:31:27.000Z haha lolwut ## lindsayt · 2009-04-02T07:00:12.000Z It's not an old wives tale :) I was just reading in the AKC Gazette or something about how monorchid dogs used to be allowed in the standards and were showable, and some of the top studs of all time in horses and dogs were monorchid with 1 undescended testicle. They made huge contributions to their respective breeds/species, but there was some question to the heritablity of the trait, so in the 40's or 50's, AKC changed their wording to require two apparently normal testicles to be present in the scrotum. This is when people started getting more nuts with their dogs (pun intended ;) I guess there is some thinking that monorchidism/undescended testicles may be more a result of exogenous chemical/hormone influences (like the dam being exposed to simple environmental chemicals/pesticides that disrupt the geniturinary development of the fetuses) or polygenic than an actual simple inherited trait. For this reason, it seems a little unreasonable that an otherwise perfect representative of a breed should be excluded from the gene pool if the trait is not inherited. This may be a contributing factor as to why some people are driven to use neuticles in the ring, however, I think a lot of it has to do with "doing whatever it takes to win" which is by no means ethical. Once implants have been used, you have to wonder about the quality of the dog all together-is that the real coat colour, are those all real teeth, is the grooming and handler hiding flaws from the judge? ## Calia · 2009-04-02T07:55:08.000Z I heard somewhere that it is an automatic disqualification if it is proven that a dog has neuticles in the ring. ## Nekopan · 2009-04-02T12:46:12.000Z It isn't just a disqualification - in most places you will be banned from showing altogether. ## Leonberger (admin) · 2009-04-02T14:18:40.000Z There are loads of dogs that had corrective surgery out there in the ring. Ectropium and entropium being the most common, as far as I know. If I remember correctly, these are hereditary. It's impressive what groomers and handlers can do to a dog, making it look completely different from what it is. ## lindsayt · 2009-04-03T06:46:11.000Z My uncle has Shar Pei and everyone he has had so far has needed some sort of eye lift and entropion surgery, even those that came from top show homes. What sort of Vet does plastic surgery though, knowing that they are helping to conceal a defect? ## Leonberger (admin) · 2009-04-05T20:26:58.000Z As sad as it might be, money can do loads of things... --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)