# A ''mini" shiba inu?? For some reason, I'm a bit disturbed by Ice Wind Farm's claim that they have created a Mini Shiba that only amounts to 10lbs full grown. Isn't that a clear indicator that she is not breeding for the betterment of the breed? Or does this really sometimes happen? I mean, my shibas are 18lbs each but… ## Thread In Shiba Inu · started by tsukitsune · 33 replies - **Category:** [Shiba Inu](https://nihonken.org/community/c/shiba-inu) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-04-15T17:28:03.000Z For some reason, I'm a bit disturbed by Ice Wind Farm's claim that they have created a Mini Shiba that only amounts to 10lbs full grown. Isn't that a clear indicator that she is not breeding for the betterment of the breed? Or does this really sometimes happen? I mean, my shibas are 18lbs each but they are active year old shibas.. http://icewindfarm.com/ Available Now: 2 Mini Shiba Puppies, 8 weeks old. On Rare Occasions we will have minature shiba pups that will only grow to about 10 lbs. in size as an Adult. They are very cute , have great temperaments, and could fit in your pocket. They are amazing to watch, they are very fast and playful. ## brandon_w (admin) · 2008-04-15T17:47:55.000Z The fact she is trying to breed mini Shibas is nothing short of horrifying.  It's just sickening, there don't need to be mini shibas. ## jmaxwell · 2008-04-15T17:57:37.000Z OMG I am so pissed off at that website! Do you see how that girl is showing her off just as she was in a pagent with her dog??? She is clearly pimping them out for money, and not for standards to the breed itself. That makes me sick to my stomach! ## scarlet · 2008-04-15T18:01:15.000Z Very sad, very sad. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2008-04-15T18:04:06.000Z I agree.  Jazz weighed in at 17 lbs, but she was underweight when I got her and is proud to be hovering at 20 lbs. now - she looks so much better. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-04-15T18:08:27.000Z Needless to say if I ever consider starting a shiba from a pup, I can successfully eliminate them as a reputable breeder. I am so disappointed. ## okiron · 2008-04-15T18:41:48.000Z Yeah...that's just horrid. Aren't shibas small enough? ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-04-15T19:00:06.000Z They have mini Shibas in Japan, they are called "Momo Shibas" (I think). It's terrible... we should all spam that site with hate mail (not really). ## hondru (moderator) · 2008-04-15T19:09:40.000Z Good grief, why must everything be miniature? ## okiron · 2008-04-15T19:28:38.000Z Max weight is 20lbs...how much smaller do you need? If you want a 5lbs dog get a chihuahua. ## kwyld · 2008-04-15T20:24:14.000Z Oh dear, my Shiba is 13-14 lbs.  I wasn't looking for a mini Shiba, but Taj just turned out remarkably small.  Her parents were normal size though.  Brad isn't Kaia pretty small too? ## _dlroberts · 2008-04-15T21:07:32.000Z It does happen on occasion, but it is a defect just like the cream color. It should not be bred for because they are cute. Nor should they be sold as "designer" Shibas. Joey's breeder had a litter that had some problems. One still born and one "disabled" puppy. The disabled puppy was tiny, they were estimating she was going to be 10 pounds fully grown just like the icewind "mini shibas". Joey's breeder refused to sell her. She is keeping her as a pet and may *give* her to a carefully screened home later in her life. Brad, can you talk to your brother about the legal issues associated with maintaining a public black list of breeders? I don't know if its something I/we want to get involved with, but part of me wonders if it may do some good. ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-04-15T21:52:11.000Z yes, Kaia is super small - she is 14lb, but is a bit plump these days (I have nicked-named her sausage because she has no shape), she is on a diet now tho. Anyway, she should be closer to 10 - 12 for her size. I will ask my bro tonight... that is a good idea, tho I agree it may make us the target of some hate. ## okiron · 2008-04-15T22:00:05.000Z That's the sad part. I can have a list of recommended breeders with little issue (besides pro-rescue people who look down upon people who purchase from breeders) but a list of not recommended breeders might get me more than enough hate mail. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-04-15T23:08:17.000Z icewind already has flack for their "Tamaskan" breeding and how they are not improved by the tamaskan associations but deny that they need to be blah blah its not the fact that they have a 'defective' litter, its the fact she is marketing them as a new designer breed of Shiba. That is so wrong. That should be made crystal clear to her. I sent an email. ## sujewel · 2008-04-18T01:35:08.000Z Wow. That is pretty horrifying. I hate this designer dog craze. This afternoon, I saw a mini yorkie in bag on the bus. Cute, but aren't dogs supposed to walk? You know, enjoy the journey, roam, run, sniff. These designer dogs do nothing but sit there. Only a few designer dogs I've met had any kind of personality. How can they? They weigh all of 4lbs. They need all their energy just to open their eye, let alone wag their tails. ## _dlroberts · 2008-04-18T01:38:10.000Z Actually, I was thinking about this thread earlier. Brad, did you get a chance to talk to you brother? ## sujewel · 2008-04-18T01:48:41.000Z As usual, playing catch up here. ## jenna · 2008-04-29T14:41:25.000Z Hi... I just joined the forum after reading this thread. (It was pointed out to me during an email discussion regarding Icewinds "mini Shibas.") Anyway, I wanted to comment on a couple things. Not sure how to thread my replies under the post they are related to, so just putting everything here. brada1878: mini versions of most breeds - including Shibas - in Japan are called Mame. Mame Shibas however are NOT a recognized part of the Nippo standard. The standard for Shibas in Japan is actually a little bit LARGER than the AKC standard in the US. okiron: - it is absolutely a misperception that "pro-rescue" people are also anti-breeder. It may hold true for many all-breed rescuers, but in all actuality most people who are involved in breed specific rescue are very pro responsible breeding. If it weren't for responsible breeders, the breed we love so much would not exist. I know many people involved in Shiba rescue and other breed-specific rescue and many of them have relationships with, and respect for, reputable breeders. I am very anti-puppymill and anti-pet store and anti-backyard breeder, but I have a great relationship with a number of reputable breeders. I feel like we have the same goal - the welfare of the breed. I refer people to reputable breeders all the time. I also steer people away from non-responsible breeders whenever possible. I am a member of the Shiba Club of Greater New York and all of the breeders and fanciers in SCGNY believe "if you won't rescue, don't breed" and they are all involved with rescue. They support NYCSR through volunteering, making donations, and referring potential adopters. Many breeders outside our area strongly support us also. Last, but sooooo not least, my heart dog - Snickers - was purchased as a pup from an NSCA/SCGNY breeder and, although I also have an adopted female and various foster dogs coming and going, I intend to always have one dog from a good breeder. Snickers has the most amazing temperament (he is a Canine Good Citizen and a Delta Society registered therapy dog) and I wouldn't trade the relationship I have with him for anything. -- jenna gates "it’s all about the inus" nyc shiba rescue, inc. nycshibarescue.org ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-04-29T14:48:50.000Z Jenna - what is your take on ice wind farms as a breeder? they are very good at being deceptive, if that is the case, when I first found interest in the breed, her site was one of the many that attracted my attention, but the more I learn about the breed and breeders, the more I don't think I could ever give her business - although she does to rescue as well, sometimes she'll take in an adult bred from there and try to re home it. ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-04-29T14:59:45.000Z Jenna,  I am sure you will be relieved to know that most of us on this forum are PRO reputable breeder AND Pro rescue. I know Brandon, Tsukistune, and I all do extensive rescue work (to name a few). Personally I have one rescue shiba, a rescue pit, and a breeder shikoku.  I know this forum is dedicated to  health and  well being of Nihon Ken and  know that there is room in the world for responsible breeder and rescues. In the hopes that perhaps one day there will no longer be a need for rescues. All that being said, welcome to the forum! ## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-04-29T15:06:59.000Z Ohhhh.... "Mame" Shiba... that is the name. Thanx Jenna, I didn't think what I typed was right but I couldn't think of the correct name. Anyway... **Welcome to the forum Jenna, nice to "see" you here!  :c) ** ## jenna · 2008-04-29T15:11:30.000Z tsukitsune: In the interest of being diplomatic, I have a personal policy of not publishing my opinions about specific breeders in public forums. Feel free to drop me an email at jenna at nycshibarescue dot org JessicaRabbit: Thank you. :) ## jenna · 2008-04-29T15:12:17.000Z brada1878: thanks. I know you told me about this forum ages ago and somehow I forgot to mosey over and sign up! ## okiron · 2008-04-29T15:17:52.000Z Jenna - Yes I do realize that because I and the others on this forum believe in being pro-rescue and breeders but still doesn't change what I said. I will still be attacked by pro-rescues for purchasing animals from a breeder. ## tsukitsune (moderator) · 2008-04-29T15:31:49.000Z i respect that Jenna - really I don't need to know, I'm no longer in 'the market' for another permanent pack member but sometimes you just can't tell, you know? ## jenna · 2008-04-29T15:34:35.000Z okiron: It is true that my points will NOT change the fact that you may be attacked by some rescue people for purchasing animals from breeders. I wasn't addressing that possibility though. What I was referring to was "(besides pro-rescue people who look down upon people who purchase from breeders)" which seemed to me like a generalization of all rescue people. Rereading it now though, I see how it just as easily could have been referring to a subset of rescue people. Forgive me if I misunderstood. tsukitsune: You are right... you really can't tell. Breeders' websites can be very deceptive. The best way to learn about any particular breeder is to get references from the NSCA and/or your local Shiba fancier's club and then talk to people that have purchased puppies from them. I know a number of people with Icewinds Shibas and have learned quite a bit about them over the past two years (just in case anyone is interested in a private chat). ## Romi (admin) · 2008-04-29T16:03:30.000Z Hi Jenna - Welcome to the forum! ## okiron · 2008-04-29T16:05:26.000Z Jenna - You did nothing wrong so nothing to forgive :) Yeah it might sound like a generalized statement now that you mention it but no, I only mean rescues who look down upon breeders. ## _dlroberts · 2008-04-29T17:37:16.000Z Hi Jenna, welcome to the forum and thanks for being so involved in rescue too! --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)