# Colors and Apearance I brought Tetsu today to a Dojo that I haven't been to in quite a bit but plan on returning to in the near future. While waiting for my old sensei to finish with practice, another sensei had come up to me and asked if he was a shiba inu, and then started commenting how he must be mixed because he "… ## Thread In Shiba Inu · started by Calia · 21 replies - **Category:** [Shiba Inu](https://nihonken.org/community/c/shiba-inu) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## Calia · 2009-01-22T00:39:48.000Z I brought Tetsu today to a Dojo that I haven't been to in quite a bit but plan on returning to in the near future. While waiting for my old sensei to finish with practice, another sensei had come up to me and asked if he was a shiba inu, and then started commenting how he must be mixed because he "looks too shepherd or husky". I got a little flustered about that, but I let it pass. Now, what he said has got me thinking. Tetsu doesn't have a super foxy face like the red/red sesame, and I had always thought that black & tans have a slightly different facial structure. I also feel Tetsu has more of an "americanize" look to him, as some of the images I've seen of the Japanese show shibas look almost like mini akita inus. Is it common, or normal, for a black & tan to have a different facial structure/appearance than the red/red sesame varieties, or is his "mixed" appearance more so from possible bad breeding practices. ## impreza_sp · 2009-01-22T01:05:35.000Z I think that Mercutio, my black and tan has a more foxy face than most sesame shibas. This is a picture of him at 7 6 months. I think he has quite a long nose. He has filled out around the face a tiny bit recently, now he is 7 months. Anyway, here is a photo. He is a 100% 3 generation pedigree from Japan...I live in Japan. 3 Generations all Japanese. ## Calia · 2009-01-22T01:15:01.000Z Thanks for reminding me Steve... These are some shots of Tetsu to help with the visualness of things ## kekti · 2009-01-22T01:19:45.000Z look how roxy's face is kinda maybe that sensei wasn't used to seeing black and tan ones, ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2009-01-22T01:20:59.000Z I definitely see a difference in face structure between these two particular pups, but I don't think it's a b&t thing, I think it's just the features & traits certain breeders [ or BYB breeders ] are breeding for. Both pups are gorgeous regardless of course! :D ~ ## impreza_sp · 2009-01-22T01:21:12.000Z Yeh I saw the..I just checked out your profile photo reel to see if Tetsu was like Mercutio! I have a question...There is a great picture Tetsu 7, where did you get that bed...or is it a normal beany? I really want one...but the dog beds I have seen here in Japan are really bad or really expensive... ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-01-22T01:30:46.000Z Tetsu is still a pup isn't he? Any given week, one part of his body will grow out of proportion with the rest of him. I swear one week Ichi looked fox-ish and then another week, he looked more "Tanuki" as a friend commented. Another week he looked leggy, and then another week, he levelled out. I'm not making any assumptions about my dogs final looks until he reaches 2:) Jesse ## Calia · 2009-01-22T01:33:04.000Z That was a Christmas present from my mom that she got at Target. I don't know if Target is like Mcdonalds, existing everywhere, or if it's just a US thing. The striped fabric "donuts" around a fleecy material with a paw print. She also had gotten Tikaani a square shaped one of similar fabric, but he ripped it to shreds already. What I found was a great way to save money was to go to a department store, such as walmart if they exist outside the US, that has a fabric section and buy the discount fabric. Get stuffing and make a bed yourself. My sister hand sewed hers, and I machine sewed floor pillows for both dogs and people. ## Calia · 2009-01-22T01:36:12.000Z Tetsu is about 8 months and I guess he still needs some filling out. I have pictures from when he was about 3 months, had little to no "bulk"which made him look like a really weird min-pin ## Nekopan · 2009-01-22T01:45:04.000Z There shouldn't be any difference in the facial structure of a red shiba vs a black and tan. The sad fact is that the Shiba is suffering from irresponsible and over-breeding, so there is more variance in morphology than there used to be. I see a lot of Shibas now with very long, snipy muzzles, and narrow faces.. which IMO is not what they are supposed to look like. Here's a picture of Ch Katai's Daishi Go SunoJo, the #3 Shiba in Canada in 2007, and #1 in 2008. ## impreza_sp · 2009-01-22T02:07:13.000Z I agree that these pups change every week. So I guess that I will wait and see. Here is a side profile of Mercutio and Mercutio at 3 months. I think he has long legs...no? ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-01-22T02:51:08.000Z Wow Kyla, Those pictures of him in different light make a drastic difference in his coat. One he looks almost red/sable like and the show pic makes him look like a more consistent red. Jesse ## lindsayt · 2009-01-24T21:23:18.000Z I was talking to a breeder in Oregon a while ago and facial type came up. I still don't understand completely, but the coat coloring now probably doesn't make as much a difference in facial structure (it may have at one point-certain lines carried heavier or lighter bone structures which just happened to go along with the fact that the same lines may have been known for certain coat colours). I was told, so this is heresay, that there is a "bear face" and a "fox face" in shiba so this sort of makes sense after looking at lots of pictures. I guess the bear face is more preffered (fuller with rounder ear), the dogs really aren't supposed to look just like foxes (snipey), but hell if I am able to tell the difference. Hope that helps, she may have been lying to me, who knows. I think there is a difference in American bred vs Japanese bred for the most part. Breeders in America are trying to correct this and don't want an American Shiba but just a Shiba Inu-we want to avoid the Akita thing, so the dutiful breeders are working hard to conform to the Japanese standard as well by using imports. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-01-25T10:41:49.000Z I understand on the facial type - to make it easy, look at photos of Joey & Lucy (dlroberts) and Niko (MommyofNiko) and you'll see three different facial types. I think Joey's is more "bear-ish", Lucy is more "fox-ish" and Niko is in the middle. This is just looking from the front - if you look at the profile, you would see that Lucy's snout is long & thin, Joey's is medium, and Niko's compact. All three are gorgeous dogs, but you can definitely see a difference. BTW, I used these three because I have seen them in person and know that what I am seeing isn't a weird photography angle. ## lindsayt · 2009-01-25T10:51:06.000Z I noticed that about Lucy's face, she has a very striking muzzle from what the pics are, and she is very pleasing to the eye. ## _dlroberts · 2009-01-25T13:47:33.000Z Lucy is blushing right now. ;-) ## tobyshiba · 2009-01-25T15:37:53.000Z I always thought Toby was like ... an inbetween. Sometimes his face looks fat, other times it looks totally fox-like. If his ears weren't so gigantic, he'd look rather proportionate. xD ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-01-25T15:40:11.000Z I think Toby is an in-between, too - I consider Jazz to be the same. ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-01-25T16:02:30.000Z Depending on angle, I'd consider Ichi an in-between. Forgive the dimensions. ## _dlroberts · 2009-01-25T18:11:07.000Z I think LJ picked some good examples: Bear like Joey: Fox like Lucy: Nikko, in the middle: ## Calia · 2009-01-25T19:33:59.000Z That is an interesting concept, and the examples really help. So does that make Tetsu more of a bear-type? I just got so offended when they said that about him, felt like they were saying, "He's not so great, they just mixed two dogs together and called it a shiba. He looks nothing like the ones in the calendars" I know that the likelihood is he didn't come from a reputable breeder, or it would have been easier for the lady to return him instead of finding someone to "dump the problem" on. I've seen pictures of the parents, she got to play with them before she got Tetsu, dad was a black and tan while Mom was a red with some odd white patches. Signs that the breeder wasn't that good, but might have not been really bad. Either way, he's mine now and I hate it when people talk down about him like they are all knowing about something that they have only seen on a calendar. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-01-25T19:37:30.000Z Dave - Thanks! I just knew that those three are very distinct in looks. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)