# Cream and Tri Color Shibas-No I'm not looking to buy one. I was wondering... everyone seems like a strong supporter of responsible breeding, which I totally agree with. The AKC breed standard only recognizes Red, Seasame, and Black and Tan shibas and I would imagine that a resposible breeder would breed to the standard. My question is, if you're looking f… ## Thread In Shiba Inu · started by shimaurashibalover92 · 82 replies - **Category:** [Shiba Inu](https://nihonken.org/community/c/shiba-inu) - **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/) ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T20:20:00.000Z I was wondering... everyone seems like a strong supporter of responsible breeding, which I totally agree with. The AKC breed standard only recognizes Red, Seasame, and Black and Tan shibas and I would imagine that a resposible breeder would breed to the standard. My question is, if you're looking for a creamie or a tri color, but want to get it from a responsible breeder what do you do? Where did you guys get all those cute "non-standard" shibas? Also, I think tri colors should be called t shirt shibas, because they always look like they have a shirt on. ## KFontaine04 · 2009-03-04T20:27:02.000Z My creamie came from a BYB unfortunatley. ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T20:29:31.000Z is she healthy? ## okiron · 2009-03-04T21:13:41.000Z Well creams will eventually show up in breedings from reputable breeders so if you don't mind waiting till God knows when, you can theoretically get a non-standard color shiba from a reputable breeder. ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T21:18:58.000Z I'll admit at first I didn't really like creamies or tri colors, but they've really grown on me. Sake is so cute with her uber long legs. and hanzo the three legged tri color is awesome. ## Romi (admin) · 2009-03-04T21:27:48.000Z I really don't think you should base your choice on appearance...especially if you are purchasing a dog as a companion. I don't think you should limit your search to one specific color. You should be wanting a dog that will best suit you and your lifestlye. Regardless if Kristin's cream shiba is healthy, she was still purchased from a BYB. So many people are trying to stop BYB's and Puppymills. It just doesn't make sense to fund them just because they have the color of a dog you want - especially since you are aware of BYB and Puppymills...I don't really understand why you would even consider it. Most of the Creams/Tri-Color shiba's you see on the forum are rescues or were purchased from a pet store/BYB by the owner who didn't know any better at the time. I'm not trying to be harsh or mean, but from experience...it's safer to get a pup from a reputable/recommended breeder who can match you up with a pup vs a breeder who has a puppy with the markings you like. You will save A LOT of money, time, and heartache. ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T21:38:37.000Z i never have even considered a byb or puppy mill, this was just a question about if someone wanted to get a cream shiba where they could go without supporting a puppy mill, pet store, or byb. Temperment and health have been concern number one with me and my wife when looking for a shiba. Color or gender haven't really played a major role. All I want is a healthy and well bred shiba. I think appearance can and should play a role in choosing a dog , as long as you're willing to wait for the right dog. You did come off as a little harsh, but I totally understand because everytime I see a Shiba in a pet store I get angry, because I know someone is using this beautiful breed to turn a profit. I'm going to get my dog from a reputable breeder, so your concern is greatly appreciated but totally unecessary. I'd also like to thank everyone on the forum for being so helpful and informative, but sometimes people are very quick to jump down someones throat. Which again I totally understand. ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-03-04T21:47:30.000Z Since both tricolor/B&T and cream shibas are recessive traits, it is still possible for them to occur in standard color breed pairs. I have read that breeders will basically refrain from breeding that same pair again if a cream is produced but that doesn't mean the cream shiba pup is terminated. It is a situation like I have mentioned above where one could get a cream shiba from a reputable breeder. The situation would be rare since breeders are working with high awareness of their breeding stock's characteristics but it wouldn't be impossible. Jesse ## Romi (admin) · 2009-03-04T21:55:10.000Z I'm sorry to have offended you. But, by Kristin's comment of "My creamie came from a BYB unfortunately" and your response being "is she healthy?" It kind of worried me that as long as the puppy seems healthy and is the color you want, purchasing from a BYB is okay. So I hope you can see why I got concerned... Since you are new to the breed - I was just trying to give you a heads up. In your other post about rightpuppykennel.com, you asked what people thought of this "breeder". So, I assumed you were new to purchasing a puppy and didn't know exactly what to look for in a breeder and what signs to look for that a breeder is a puppymill or byb. When you get a chance, a number of members from this forum came together and created an article about how to find good breeders, which can be viewed here: How to find a Good Breeder The article has a lot of great information of what to look for and what questions to ask. Hopefully it will help you in your search. ## Darwin67 · 2009-03-04T21:58:14.000Z I asked our breeder about the creams...she indicated she might have one pop up, but that it is extremely rare...I'd probably have a better chance of winning the lotto in other words :0). Our breeder will occasionally breed for the Tri-Color, I guess...but that it's rare since she likes to focus on the colors she shows in the ring. I think the color really depends on the breeder...I think that most reputable breeders also typically show, and most of the Shibas you see in the ring are the Red's and Sesame's...so they tend to breed for that color. ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T22:24:16.000Z Romi, totally not offended. I understand where you're coming from. I've had a deposit down on a shiba, from a reputable breeder since last year. We were on the site alot when we first put the deposit down, but haven't been on too much until recently. So I can see how it seems we're still looking. Most of the questions I've been asking have been out of curiosity, and as a way to kill time until we get our dog. There aren't many things that I'd buy from someones backyard, a pure bred dog being number three on the list. BYB= BIG YELLOW BIRD? Big bird sells bad shibas? ## Kaddy · 2009-03-04T22:25:02.000Z I know Big Bird - true story. ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-04T22:33:49.000Z I always thought he looked shifty, and that big brown elephant looking thing that he's always rolling with looks pretty shady too. ## Darwin67 · 2009-03-04T22:55:07.000Z LOL!! Aloysius Snuffleupagus....those were the days...eating cheerios and watching sesame street....sigh, I miss kindergarten! ## KFontaine04 · 2009-03-04T22:58:33.000Z Sake is pretty healthy. We are watching her hips and knees for signs of LP or anything because her legs are SO long. ## CrimsonO2 · 2009-03-04T23:12:51.000Z BYB = Backyard Breeder...hmm...guess there's really no need to put the "Y" in the acronym... Jesse ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-03-04T23:19:38.000Z well, if you just did BB, I'd be thinking of a BB gun. ## lepercann · 2009-03-04T23:25:27.000Z You guys are HILARIOUS!! My husband and I were laughing histerically at the Big Bird and Snuffy thing. We have a cream Shiba that we rescued. His previous owners told us he was from a pet store originally. He is very tall for a Shiba and weighs 33 lbs. He has stage 1 luxating patella in his right back knee. Other than that, he is perfect and we absolutely adore him. Triton is the sweetest dog ever! ## Kaddy · 2009-03-04T23:53:22.000Z True LJ. Everytime I see BYB it I think "BYOB" which just makes me wanna throw a party! :o) ## Calia · 2009-03-05T00:21:12.000Z I know this sounds silly to ask, but I thought the term "tri-color" was what unknowing people would call a Black and Tan. Does it really mean something else? ## okiron · 2009-03-05T00:24:43.000Z You know you're a parent when "BYOB" is read "Bring your own boob" instead of beer xD ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-05T00:29:55.000Z When I said tri color i was talking about the red or seasame shibas with alot of black on their backs. But I've heard people call black and tans tricolors, and alot of people call both red and seasame dogs, red seasame. I was reading a book on shibas the other day, and it said in england that the breed standard over there accepts brindle. ## ljowen123 (moderator) · 2009-03-05T00:33:09.000Z We have two excellent representations of a tri-color on the forum - Hanzo & Tosca, both are quite lovely. ## Calia · 2009-03-05T00:38:11.000Z And here I thought Hanzo was a dark sesame, and Tosca a black and tan with non traditional markings ## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2009-03-05T00:39:21.000Z are you sure you weren't reading the akita breed standard? To the best of my understanding there is no such thing as a brindle shiba inu ## santuzza · 2009-03-05T00:55:37.000Z Tosca says thank you for your compliment, LJ! In answer to the question posed, Tosca was originally a pet store purchase that was given up to a rescue society some years later and I adopted her. As far as I've researched, both the cream and tri-color colorations are possible in any breeding pair but are rare. These colors are not an indication of an inferior puppy, just a unique one. ## Sangmort (moderator) · 2009-03-05T00:56:23.000Z Yep, no brindle shibas that I've ever heard of. There are brindle Hokkaido, Akita, Kishu, & of course, Kai ken. I've even seen a slight brindle in a couple of [ working ] Shikoku, but not shibas. ~ ## shimaurashibalover92 · 2009-03-05T01:07:39.000Z i think it's the shiba standard in england. When I find the book I'll double check, but I could be mistaken. I found this on a website. Shiba Inu Appearance Although small, the Shiba Inu is a sturdy, well built, and agile dog. He always looks alert and keen. The coat of these dogs is straight and harsh to the touch, and coloring of the coat includes black sesame, red sesame, red, brindle, and black and tan. Some may also display white patches. The weight of the Shiba Inu is around 18-28 pounds, and the height is around 13-16 inches for females and around 15-17 inches for males what's black seasame? ## _dlroberts · 2009-03-05T01:45:37.000Z Do you have a link to the site you found that on? It sounds more like the Hokkaido standard than the Shiba standard (except for the height and weight). I'm confident in saying that description of a Shibas colors is wrong. Shikoku come in black sesame and red sesame. Hokkaido, Kai, and Akita come in brindle. But Shibas come in red, red seasame, and black and tan only (with slight "non-standard" variations including pinto, cream, tri-color, and dirty red). ## PLwarped59 · 2009-03-05T02:55:39.000Z Shibas only have 3 colours that are accepted byt Nippo, FCI, and AKC. Other colours can be registered, but cannot be shown, hence should not be bred. Red, Sesame,and Black and Tan are the three colours accepted. Black and Tan only describes the accepted black and tan colour, it is not called tri-colour because the urajiro markings must be present on all three colours. Tri could be used to describe a black and tan with a red head or a red with a black 'saddle'. A true Seasame is so hard to come by that most people will call a Red Shiba that has light black tipping on the hairs a Red Sesame to describe that it is not a true Sesame but is not a solid red. A Shiba with more black tipped hair would be a Black Sesame. If a puppy came from a pet store of even a rescue, not many know the colours that a Shiba should be described as. Ive gone in a few pet stores that had a Black and Tan that they called a tri colour. Its because the staff write down the colours for the puppies and most of them just dont know. I have also seen a pinto Shiba puppy. --- **Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)