# Ninja's getting Neutered

So this morning we took Ninja to the vet (new vet) to get bloodwork done to make sure everything is ok and he will be ok to go through the surgery.  We get the results back on Monday.  I scheduled the Neutering to be on Friday the 22nd (in 2 weeks).  That way I can spend all weekend with him to mak…

## Thread
In Health · started by Romi · 86 replies
- **Category:** [Health](https://nihonken.org/community/c/health)
- **Forum:** [Nihon Ken Forum](https://nihonken.org/community/)

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-09T16:39:25.000Z
So this morning we took Ninja to the vet (new vet) to get bloodwork done to make sure everything is ok and he will be ok to go through the surgery.  We get the results back on Monday.  I scheduled the Neutering to be on Friday the 22nd (in 2 weeks).  That way I can spend all weekend with him to make sure everything is fine, I might take a few days off too. 

 I am so proud of my little man!  When we walked in there was a huge german shepard and another german shepard mix that started barking right when we walked in.  I felt Ninja getting a little nervous, so I went to sit down.  The german shepard left, and the other germans shepard mix calmed down.  I had to take him to the back office and those obedience classes are really paying off!  He was hesitant to move forward, so in a happy chipper voice I said "Ninja Lets go" and started moving forward and up his tail went and started walking.

I walked back to sit down and was dreading hearing his screams.  15 mins go by, and out he comes with his tail up and curled!  The vet was like "Wow, he did so well today!"   I felt so proud of him!  Also John took him for a brisk walk in the morning before we left, so maybe that might have helped too.

See, now this is where I get confused.  On Thursday night, he growls and snaps at a weimaraner puppy when I show her attention.  Today he is a champ and doesn't make one peep while getting his blood drawn by 2 strange men.  But last night, he was being very territorial over the bed and snapped at Portia.  hmph...  Maybe I just have a moody dog.

 Last night when he was getting into it with Portia, I was getting in front of Ninja and staring him right in the eyes saying "STOP, THATS ENOUGH NINJA, LEAVE IT"  But once I moved, he would go at it again if she got close. 

I came to the conclusion that I am scared of Ninja.  Im afraid if I correct him too harshly it will scar him for life, but I am afraid if im not harsh enough, his aggression will grow and might end up really hurting Portia or even us.  I know this is very bad of me as an owner, but I feel really stuck.

 Sometimes he amazes me with his reaction and acceptance to new things, but other times he just makes me want to cry.

## okiron · 2008-02-09T18:41:45.000Z
I have the opposite problem with my roommate's dog. He hasn't had any obedience training and is a hyper little mutt. (GSD/Chow mix) He's an overall good dog, he just doesn't know consistency. Sometimes it's ok to jump, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's ok to do this, sometimes it's not. When he does something bad (IE tear apart the couch cushions) they told me to discipline him if I see him doing it. Well..I'm scared to find out at what point is he going to lash back at me. With nothing being consistent he might think I'm attacking him instead of disciplining him. The sad thing is, I've lived here for 5 months and I have NEVER seen them give this dog a walk. We live in a 3 bedroom townhouse with a small backyard. He's cooped up in here day in and day out with no stimulation. Another reason I can't discipline him. He's just bored. I can't get mad at him for being bored.

</gets off soapbox>

Good luck Ninja! Kiss those babies goodbye and have fun wearing a e-collar for a while.

## _dlroberts · 2008-02-09T18:52:53.000Z
Romi, I understand why you might be worried. But you have to remember there is a difference between a correction and inflicting harm to him. I correct Lucy all the time when she does something I don't agree with. For example, my mom has never been comfortable around dogs and Lucy picked up on that right away. At one point, she stood in between my mom and her luggage and even nipped at my mom when she tried to get by. I did not tolerate it for a second. I walked over, grabbed Lucy by the scruff, put her on her back, and asked my mom to stand over her. I didn't hurt her and she didn't protest. It was a correction.

Sometimes you can over correct. I've done it and I felt terrible about it (and still do). Once, Lucy was being somewhat bitchy toward another female Shiba. They had been in a few minor disagreements that day. When we were getting ready to leave, I had put her collar and leash on. Just as I was about to walk for the door, Lucy started another scuffle with the other Shiba. I gave a firm no and yanked on the leash just as she was jumping up. The combined force of my yank and her momentum from jumping flipped her over completely and she landed flat on her back. I felt absolutely horrible. I thought I may have hurt her or scarred her in some way. Turns out, she didn't mind at all. She just got up and waited patiently for me to walk to the door.

It sounds like you love Ninja dearly and want what's best for him. In light of that, I think a quote that someone once told me is appropriate for you to think about: "no thoughtful action need every trouble us." As long as you continue to love him, he won't take offense to your corrections. Be firm and assertive and don't put up with his behavior if you don't like it. You and he will be just fine!

I hope this helps at least a little.

## Leonberger (admin) · 2008-02-09T19:13:32.000Z
I know it's a theoretical knowledge and I know it's going to sound like a cliché, but you have to show him what his limits are, firmly without being cruel or anything. But a firm "No!" or even a swift yank won't hurt him. Dogs keep doing that in packs. It's how they establish hierarchy.

And Rina made a very good point on the consistency and coherency  issue. Dogs need it.

## kwyld · 2008-02-09T20:07:09.000Z
Romi, I have had weird issues with Kohji, I feel you on how confusing it can be with their moods and how to disipline. I agree with Dave and Leonberger with their ideas, just staying consistent and making things clear and staying calm with him is good. I find that a routine with Kohji keeps him the most happy. You are right, it sounds like Ninja is guarding the bed and telling Portia it's his so stay back. Same goes for the growling and snapping at the Weim puppy, he's saying "She's mine"(you). I just wouldn't let him sleep on your bed anymore, make him sleep in his crate. I used to let Kohji sleep on the bed and couches and he would be nasty to anyone if they came near him, us, Taj, it didn't matter. So no more couches or sleeping on our bed. Obedience classes work wonders though, that is really good to hear that he was so calm and confidant at the vet's. It's always a good sign when you see that tail curl up! My trainer has told her obedience classes for the more dominant type dogs to do an easy calm exercise at home often. Basically you attach a leash to your dog's collar and make them lay down and stand on the leash right where it hooks to the collar and make them lay there for like 20 minutes and don't talk to them or say anything the whole time, stay very quiet. They might squirm and freak at first but they calm down and my dogs fall asleep on the floor sometimes when I do it. Then just let them up slowly and unhook the leash but don't praise them, just stay quiet and that's it.

## MommyofNiko · 2008-02-09T22:07:32.000Z
I agree with all.  There are a few points I want to make.  The dog park may not be a good thing at this point until you know you can trust him.  It is very overwhelming to any dog, especially one that is anxious and it is an uncontrolled environment that can cause harm (Brad will always attest to this with Maui).  The vet was a more controlled atmosphere and him being on a leash may be a calming thing because you are in charge and he senses that.  You dont want to set Ninja up for failure and the dog park may be just that right now.  Go low scale for now such as the training classes. 

Also in the home you need more control and Ninja needs less "reign" in the home.  He needs to EARN priveleges such as the bed and the couch.  Niko will always be territorial over her own bed and will hump it like there is no tomorrow if anyone or anything touches it but she will never be able to act that way with out bed our the furniture.  She can ONLY come up if invited and if she gets up without being invited down she goes.  Sometimes when she is in mid jump she gets an oh shit look and gets right back down.  Part is his Shiba nature but you cant let that be an excuse.  You are still learning and so are we all.  I am reading the book The Loved Dog and learning that we tend to be too harsh sometimes with simple things.  

Ninja will sense your anxiety and feed off of it and continue to push the boundaries.  Maybe keep him on a leash in the home for a while so he knows that you are in charge.  We had to do this with Sasha to help her bonding with Chad and learning that he is in charge and safe.  Sasha would have to walk with Chad and follow him and learn to watch his actions.  This is some sort of Monk training or something....?  A trainer suggested it and it worked very well.  

Again I will reiterate the consistency, the confidence and being firm.  There is a BIG difference between being firm and loving and being cruel.  I hope Dave doesnt mind but it was my little brat that kept pushing Lucy.  Niko didnt pick up on Lucy's not so subtle hints to leave her alone.  Picking up by the scuff is something we do with Niko when needed such as when she and Lucy got into it one of the times.  She hates it but is necessary at times to put an end to an ugly situation.  I also think that Lucy will grow and learn a lot when she gets a baby brother.  Niko learned a lot of tolerance and has been humbled by having a sister.  She matured a lot. 

It is still very early in yours and Ninja's relationship and you both are still learning.  Niko and Sasha will continue to always have tiffs and that is normal in any relationship no matter human or animal.  Ninja wants to be top dog and Portia may let him get away with things and there are some things that they will have to work out between themselves but there are some things that you can do to let them know that they dont have a say over specific situations.

I hope some of this may be helpful and remember that even though you may feel bad it is important to lay down the law...such as the bed and so on.  We learned that the hard way also and they appreciate having those boundaries put into place also.  They dont know guilt, that is a human emotion.  Boundaries, consistency and being the leader=Love to them.

## kwyld · 2008-02-09T23:36:25.000Z
Romi, when I rarely go to the dog park, knowing Kohji's reactive personality, I will keep him in the car and bring News and Taj in because I trust them around other dogs. After we are finished in there, I will go back to the car and get Kohji and walk all of them together on leash in the regular park area where the dogs are to be leashed. Maybe just bring Portia in to the dog park and then walk Ninja on leash after you guys are finished, outside the dog park, so he doesn't feel left out? Rachael's point about the tethering they did with Niko is GOOD advise. I still do that with my dogs because you can control what they are doing, and they love the attention you are giving them. You can tell them to sit or lay down while you are cooking or using your laptap, work on the come command, and all sorts of other tricks. Have you ever considered using the Gentile Leader head halter for him? I swear by them, they are awesome little training tools that increase your control over a dog, but in a humane, easy way. You can stop any unwanted behavior using them correctly. The only thing that's annoying is the dog tries to get it off his nose all the time when you first start using it.

## MommyofNiko · 2008-02-09T23:52:08.000Z
You can hook the lead into your belt. Chad did it with his belt loop and Sasha got scared, took off and ripped his jeans...it was pretty funny.

BTW glad you found a good vet, that makes a big difference also.

## okiron · 2008-02-10T00:40:54.000Z
LMAO @ Rachael. Was it like in the cartoons?

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-10T01:32:34.000Z
Thanks for all the advice everyone.   Ninja never sleeps with us on the bed.  He only jumps on the bed to be pet.  Once we stop petting he will get down and sleep in his crate.   Portia is the one who always sleeps on the bed throughout the night.  We've been going to the same dog park for the past 2 months with no problems.  Last Thursday was the first time he actually snapped at another dog.  Usually Portia is running around playing with the other dogs and getting love from the other owners and Ninja just sniffs other dogs and walks away.  He usually just follows us around. 

As for boundaries.  I've trained them to do certain things to get certain things.  Like to be let out, put on the collar and leash, and feedings, they always have to sit before anything happens.  So now, anytime I get the leash out, they both sit, anytime they hear me pour the kibble they sit, and anytime I go next to the door they sit.  But for the bed and couches, they usually just jump right up and sit next to us.  They aren't overly hyper or anything, so I just let them. 

I guess the only thing that is a big problem is his aggression towards other dogs and his sometimes territorial moods.  For example, say that Ninja is on the bed and Portia jumps on and he growls or nips at her.  How would I go about correcting that.  I usually just say "THATS ENOUGH" or "NO NINJA, STOP"  but once she jumps on again the same thing happens until he leaves the bed.  

With Portia, John did all of the discipline.  He would always grab her by the scruff and correct her.  So Portia knows when she's in trouble and when she has crossed the line.  So do you think we should discipline Ninja the same way we do with Portia.  Portia was always a lovable pup and we've never had any behavioral issues with her.  So I was never worried about correcting her and having her hate us for it.  I guess with Ninja, i think he's more sensitive and feel bad for him because of his lack of socialization and poor temperment, so i end up taking it easier on him. 

As for the dog park, do you think it would be a bad idea for me to keep him on a leash and start showing attention to the other dogs and if he starts growling to correct him right then and there?  Or do you think that is too much of a risk for the other dogs in there?  If I don't pet any of the dogs, he is fine....just goes about his own business.  But once I crouch down, he comes running and gets aggressive.

Again,  thank you all for your input, I'll have to try out some of the ideas you guys posted.  I can't thank you guys enough for helping me with Ninja.  I don't know what I would do without you guys!

## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-02-10T03:48:56.000Z
I think you have already gotten great advice - so I am not gonna add much, except this:

In a multi-dog household you should expect the dogs to guard resources from each other - the Key is to make sure they don't guard them from you. Keep an eye on them when they are guarding or showing teeth or growling, and if it reaches a point you are not comfortable with stop them and give the something different to play with (basically distract them) then remove the object they where guarding. If it continues comely remove the dog that is causing the issue from the scene.

My point is this - dogs are pack animals and form rules around things in the house, the growling and posturing is how they communicate the rules and boundaries to each other. If the dogs respect you and are not guarding things from you (or guarding you from the other dogs - that's a sign of possession not protection) then you will more than likely not have a fight between the dogs.

For example - with your bed scenario - If Ninja is guarding the bed, I would remove him from the bed, because that is your bed not his. Don't worry about his feeling or anything, these are rules - you are the leader and you expect Ninja and Portia to follow them. By allowing Ninja to be on the bed and guarding it from Portia you are telling him that he owns the bed and not you. Only allow him to be on the bed if you invite him.

----

Really tho, it sounds like he is doing much better - so that is great news! You just have to stay consistent and clear... with Shiba, if you give them an inch they will take a mile - before you even know it.

----

Good luck with the surgery and please keep us posted!

## MommyofNiko · 2008-02-10T11:49:46.000Z
I would not suggest putting him on a leash IN the dog park.  That usually is a rule in the parks, no leash because it can cause even more aggression.  I would continue with controlled situations before you take him to the park such as puppy socialization classes, training classes and so on.  There are too many loose canyons in the dog park for a dog unable to control himself and you not knowing how he may react.  A few good times can immediately be outweighed by one bad time.  You wont hurt him by grabbing his scuff, that is a natural reaction done to correct them and something they can relate to in their language.  That communicates something like a corrective bite to them.  I would also see if your vet is ok with you frequenting the office with other animals because it is also a controlled environment. 

Just my thoughts, I may be completely off.

## kwyld · 2008-02-10T13:14:35.000Z
Agreed, no leashing in the dog park.  I just take Kohji to another area of the park where there are no loose dogs bounding around(because it's a State park and there are trails you can walk in that are not associated with the dog park part of it).  You might just have one of those dogs that can't go to a dog park.  There is always a risk of an aggressive dog coming in with a stupid owner, and what if that dog attacks Ninja?  That type of experience will most likely cause further issues with him that could be more severe than what he's already dealing with.

## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-02-10T13:31:07.000Z
IMO - A dog attacking Ninja will ruin him. Ninja already shows signs of fear and anxiety - I would avoid the dog parks like the plague. I know it sucks but one problem could lead you to having a dog that is unstable and can't be taken out of the house. I don't mean to freak you out, I just think its like playing with fire if you already know he shows signs of fear.

The other side is that Shibas are tenacious little dogs, if Ninja is fearful and a dog approaches him in a way he is not comfortable with he may attack that dog. Then you may be leaving the dog park with a potential law suit.  That type of situation has the potential for you to loose Ninja for good. 

I don't mean to get all "doomsday" style on you, I just want to make sure you see the whole picture. Dog parks, IMO, should be left to the most mentally stable of dogs.

## hondru (moderator) · 2008-02-10T13:38:25.000Z
I agree that dog parks can be scary.  When I went, I went at the same time every day and it was always the same people so I knew the dogs and knew that they were friendly.  Of course, once a golden retriever came that would not stop pestering Tojo and barking at him.  Tojo seemed fine, but I think Tojo has a much more easy-going personality than Ninja.  

Socialization is still important, though, so maybe sign up for an agility class or something.  That's a good place to meet other dogs in a controlled environment, get some exercise, and build confidence through training.  I definitely think having a job and taking part in an activity which requires skill boosts a dog's confidence, which sounds like it would help Ninja.

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-10T17:15:23.000Z
OK no more dog parks for Ninja.  I guess we will just go to public places where we can walk and see other dogs on leashes and what not.  I've still been taking him out with me a lot, but he just hides behind me or under the chair im sitting on when people walk by.

Brad - Thanks, I totally understand what you mean.  And I know you've been through it with Maui.  So I really appreciate your honest opinion on this and kelly too.

I guess i just need to be more assertive and stop feeling sorry for Ninja.  Whatever happened to him was in the past, and we just need to focus on the NOW.   I never thougt he was the aggressive type.  But I guess he is territorial over certain things and I need to make it clear to him that nothing is HIS, everything is MINE. 

Thanks again everyone for your opinions and thoughts.  It has really opened my eyes in some areas and I can't thank you guys enough!  I will also keep you updated on Ninja's Neuter.

## ddowdemers · 2008-02-13T20:44:50.000Z
I agree regarding dog parks.  I can't take Tenji to them as he is too reactive. We have had scares on the few occasions that we tried to take him so we decided that it was just too risky.

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-13T20:54:54.000Z
Yeah there are some dog owners at the dog park I go to that im not very fond of.   I usually try to stand next to whereever there is the most owners so we can all keep a close watch on eachothers dogs.  Some people leave their dogs in there and go outside of the park to talk on their cell phones or sit in their cars.  Its ridiculous!   John or I are usually always within a couple feet of Ninja and Portia just to be extra safe, If we feel the least bit of tension between our dogs and another dog, we immediately get their attention and run to the opposite side of the dog park.  We really didn't have a problem with Ninja, but Portia is fixated on super small dogs and always likes to paw at them, so we always have to be aware when there are tiny pups. 

BTW, we went to obedience classes last night and Ninja was taking treats fromt he trainer!  It was sooo coool!  I am so proud of him!  The first time, the trainer kneeled down and turned her back to him and stuck out her hand and he took it!  Then she faced him and he still took it!  She even used him as an example on how to do a certain trick!

## _dlroberts · 2008-02-13T21:05:21.000Z
Awwww. Good boy Ninja! You should give him some extra lovin tonight.

## okiron · 2008-02-13T21:21:50.000Z
Woohoo go Ninja! :)

## MommyofNiko · 2008-02-13T23:50:20.000Z
YAY Ninja!  I remember the first time Sasha did that and the mama pride I had!

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-14T02:59:12.000Z
LOL, Mama Pride! I like that!  I was very proud...actually he is getting more and more curious now....its like he changed into another dog overnight.  Of course he won't let them pet him, but he'll go right up and sniff away, once they bend down, he goes the other way!  Im so proud of my little Ninja! I think im going to cry if he keeps this up!

## JessicaRabbit (admin) · 2008-02-14T09:58:58.000Z
Isn't it cool to watch them grow up right in front of you!

## brandon_w (admin) · 2008-02-14T10:00:32.000Z
Ninja is young and going through many phases.  I'm happy to hear that one of them is being strong and taking treats from someone new.  Sounds like you have a good trainer too.

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-17T18:16:05.000Z
Ninja is a CHAMP!!! Last night I invited 2 friends over and before they walked in i told them to ignore Ninja, not to look at him or say anything to him.  So we were hanging out in the living room and Ninja was walking half way up to where they were sitting and just waiting for them to look at him, but they didn't, so he would get closer and walk away over and over again.  Then I decided to see if they would do tricks.  So i got the clicker out and started doing some tricks.  Then I gave the clicker to my friend and told him to click it whenever they did my command, but I would still give the treats.  Then I took the clicker and gave my friend the treats and told him to say the command and it WORKED!!!  Ninja was sitting super close to him and staring him right in the eye waiting for the treat. (We were practicing "Leave it" where my friend has the treat in his hand and would say "Leave it" and once Ninja backed off for a few seconds he would reward him".   OMG OMG OMG IM SO HAPPY!

## _dlroberts · 2008-02-17T19:36:12.000Z
Nice job Ninja! You should be very proud of him! What a champ. That was a great approach to use too.

## brada1878 (admin) · 2008-02-17T21:32:30.000Z
wow - that's great! It sounds like you handled that like a pro Romi - I'm impressed! 

That is exactly the type of things Ninja need to experience.

## MommyofNiko · 2008-02-17T23:59:15.000Z
YAY  RAH RAH NINJA!

## kwyld · 2008-02-18T13:50:22.000Z
Hoorah Ninja!  That is awesome to hear Romi.  How exciting, I agree that is a great approach, keep up the good work!

## Romi (admin) · 2008-02-18T15:36:57.000Z
Yeah im really excited to see what he's capable of doing now!  When I think about it, i've only had Ninja for 2 1/2  months (got him dec. 5)  i think i was just wishing for instant results and being impatient and it turned into being anxious and having negative thoughts.  Ninja has taught me a lot too, which has really opened my eyes.  I think he is actually moving at a pretty good speed.  When I got him, he wouldn't even stay in the same room with a stranger, now he'll eat out of the palm of their hand!   I guess I was always used to having a puppy who was always outgoing and the only thing I had problems with before were potty training and chewing issues, never anxiety or fear issues.   So im kind of thankful for Ninja and letting me experience the training and work and definately the happiness when he accomplishes something new!  Its so exciting!  And I can't thank all of you enough for helping me through this....you guys are the BEST!

---

**Navigate:** [Forum home](https://nihonken.org/community/?format=md) · [Sitemap](https://nihonken.org/community/sitemap.xml)